Theban

[Child of a New Day]

I am learning the Theban. Does anyone know why are there two different ways to write it? Or is there even more? I thought I was doing pretty good learning until I found out there was another style. So it's back to the drawing board. I would appriciate any info you can give me even regarding history of the Theban. I know it's also called the runes of Honorius, after an inventor and very little history.
P.S. We need more activity on the neo-paganism part of the forum. The Monothiestic people are having a ball.

 

[iBrian]

P.S. We need more activity on the neo-paganism part of the forum. The Monothiestic people are having a ball.

Actually, about this time last year, it was the other way around.

In a couple of weeks, and a few changes, I'll be sending out a mass e-mail to all members again - hopefully we'll see some of the pagan members remembering to visit again.

 

[bgruagach]

Do you have links to places on the web where they show the two versions of the Theban script you mentioned? I'm curious to see how they differ.

The oldest reference I'm aware of for the Theban script is in Cornelius Agrippa's "Three Books of Occult Philosophy." There is a relatively recent version of it published with copious annotations by Donald Tyson that is pretty good.

 

[Child of a New Day]

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/theban.htm

This is the first link I have. It looks like it is written in Calligraphy or something, So I could see how some of the letters are just fancy if you will. But If you check out the next link you'll see that the W is completely different so is the I/J. Thanks for your help Ben.

http://www.bewitchingways.com/wicca/alphabet.htm

 

[bgruagach]

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/theban.htm

This is the first link I have. It looks like it is written in Calligraphy or something, So I could see how some of the letters are just fancy if you will. But If you check out the next link you'll see that the W is completely different so is the I/J. Thanks for your help Ben.

http://www.bewitchingways.com/wicca/alphabet.htm

Thanks for those links.

The first link is pretty close to the oldest version I know about (the Cornelius Agrippa version). In Agrippa's version he doesn't list the letter J or W at all. It was common for the letters I and J to be considered the same letter, and W is really just either UU or VV (U and V were also often considered interchangeable.) So knowing that, the second linked version looks to me like a much more recent version since it makes the point of providing not only a distinct symbol for J but also one for W.

I'm not really sure what the reasoning would be for the other modifications in that second link. For instance, why would it be helpful to modify the symbol for I to include that extra bit that looks like a W? I think someone was just making up a font and thought they'd "improve" the standard Theban to one they preferred personally.

Agrippa wrote his famous work, "Three Books of Occult Philosophy" around 1509 and 1510. He attributed the Theban script to earlier grimoires but no one has been able to find any reference for it even in the grimoires Agrippa mentioned. And I don't think there is any evidence for the script prior to Agrippa's work that anyone has uncovered yet -- and people have been looking! (There's a brief bio of Agrippa, and web versions of his work, at esotericarchives.com.)

Personally, I'd be inclined to stick with the standard version of the Theban script like the one in the link http://www.omniglot.com/writing/theban.htm

 

[Child of a New Day]

Thanks for the info. I started learning the modernized Theban first. But now I am learning both. Just incase. I got the "Triumph of the Moon" in the mail yesterday. I am reading two other books right now but when I am done I will read it. I feel like I am in college again!

 

[Raven Grimassi]

I am learning the Theban. Does anyone know why are there two different ways to write it? Or is there even more? I thought I was doing pretty good learning until I found out there was another style. So it's back to the drawing board. I would appriciate any info you can give me even regarding history of the Theban. I know it's also called the runes of Honorius, after an inventor and very little history.
P.S. We need more activity on the neo-paganism part of the forum. The Monothiestic people are having a ball.

I agree with Ben that the first link is closet, and the second a modern personal rendering.

The Theban script bears a strong resemblance to the letter style of the Etruscan alphabet, which like the Theban is missing the English equivalent of the letters U, J, and W.

Upon examination, the Theban appears to come from a period prior to the 11th century, and seems to be based upon the Latin alphabet equivalents. This is suggested by the absence of U, J, & W, which do not appear in old Latin. Latin cyphers containing the letters U and J arise from the introduction of those letters in the late 15th century.

As already noted, the Theban script is popularly associated with Agrippa's 16th century work of Occult Philosophy. In some circles of occult tradition, the script is said to have originated in the ancient Greek city of Thebes, hence the term Theban. We do find the Theban script in use among certain traditions of Italian Witchcraft rooted in Tuscany (the former region of the Etruscans).

It is interesting to note that Agrippa spent time in Naples (circa 1509) and lived in the Tuscan city of Milan from 1512 - 1515. His Occult Philosophy was first published in 1531, and translated into English in 1651.

Best regards - Raven

 

[Child of a New Day]

Thank you for the info. I am still in the process of learning well obviously. I am so glad my boyfriend introduced me to this forum! I am getting answers from the pro's. The Goddess truely watches out for me! I feel like my eyes will really be open this time. I hope one day I can be as knowledgable as you guys! Maybe I should start another thread but I wanted to ask how it was for you when you first started out in the craft? I mean my family consist of mostly eclectic wiccans. So this really is not that new to me, however most are still in the "broom closet". So well I guess what I am trying to say is we do not talk about it that much. What a shame huh. Well my aunt did. She passed away and like I explained in another thread (the heart of wicca) I just did not have the hunger for learning that I do now. How did the God/dess reveal her/him self to you. Maybe I should start a new thread. Maybe tomorrow I said I would not be on that long tonight.

 

[Spritey]

I didn't know there was another way...eesh. Oh, side story. Ages ago I brought this book with a wood-carved cover, and around the edge were some symbols which I at the time thought was just decorative. Then, when I started looking into wicca, I came across the Theban alphabet and realised it was actually written in theban! I still haven't been able to properly decipher it, its kinda...fuzzy. Still, the book makes a great book of shadows!

 

[Child of a New Day]

That's very cool. It would be a great BOS. Now I am interested in what it says. Also who wrote it?

 

[Spritey]

Sorry I took so long getting back! I am not sure as to who wrote it...and to tell the truth I'm having trouble reading it So far I've got:


'That life apon (?) the earth is not a b(u/v/w)open'

Yeah...thats where I begin to get confused. It may not even be open because several of those are a little...vague

 

[bgruagach]

Sorry I took so long getting back! I am not sure as to who wrote it...and to tell the truth I'm having trouble reading it So far I've got:


'That life apon (?) the earth is not a b(u/v/w)open'

Yeah...thats where I begin to get confused. It may not even be open because several of those are a little...vague

I believe that it says, "That life upon the earth is not a burden to be born, but a joy to be learned and shared with others." Or perhaps it's a shortened version of that.

The sentence is from a longer poetic statement of Wiccan belief called "The Wiccan Way." There is a copy of it at http://www.paganlibrary.com/introductory/wiccan_way.php and at http://www.denelder.com/poetry/way.html It looks like it was written in the late 1980s by "Lady Beckett of Circle Atheneum" although I don't know if that is true or just the name of one of the people who passed it along. Being clearly Wiccan, though, the recitation is no older than likely the 1960s.

 

[Spritey]

Okay....I'll try and translate a little more but it sounds like you're right Yeah...I just got something varying along the lines of the word 'learned'. Thankyou!

 

[borque]

I too am having problems with many variations of the Theban Script. I recently completed a book called "Original Theban Workbook - Learn Theban in 28 Days or Less" and what I learned from this book I liked.

The way the workbook is written is for anyone who want to learn theban and if you are already devoted to a certain script but want to be fluent in it, you can still use this book. I am very happy with the results after finishing this workbook.

I like the way the author organized this workbook and it teaches you how to write each script and presents many puzzles and areas to practice what you just learned. I think the author is trying to get everyone on the same page in learning the Theban script and kudos for putting such an excellent workbook together. It looks like many long hours have been put into it.

I also think the author is trying to put something together that will put people on the same page when it comes to Theban. In other words, he or she is trying to bring Theban into the 21st century and modernizing it. This may stir things up a bit for those devoted to their own script but I think since there are so many mixed versions of it that people are getting lost and don't know where to turn to. I think this may be a good idea and hats off for putting a great idea like this together. I wish I thought of it. I am thinking that this will become a real popular book in the pagan community.

The author has also a second book that was released called "Original Theban Script Puzzlebook - V1." and it has over 100 puzzles in Theban to play around with. Great concept. This will be on my list of things to purchase in the next few days to retain what I learned from the first book.

I found the books at" http://eyeofhorus.biz

Just do a search on Theban and you should be able to find it.