Was Jesus being mean when he said:

Conscience

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For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. God did not send his Son into the world to condemn it, but to save it. There is no judgment awaiting those who trust him. But those who do not trust him have already been judged for not believing in the only Son of God. Their judgment is based on this fact: The light from heaven came into the world, but they loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. They hate the light because they want to sin in the darkness. They stay away from the light for fear their sins will be exposed and they will be punished. John 3:16-20
 
Conscience said:
For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. God did not send his Son into the world to condemn it, but to save it. There is no judgment awaiting those who trust him. But those who do not trust him have already been judged for not believing in the only Son of God. Their judgment is based on this fact: The light from heaven came into the world, but they loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. They hate the light because they want to sin in the darkness. They stay away from the light for fear their sins will be exposed and they will be punished. John 3:16-20
Jesus was not being mean because they are showing by their attitude that they are more than likely goats and not sheep ,and only sheep will get everlasting life
But according to your hardness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath and of the revealing of God’s righteous judgment. And he will render to each one according to his works(romans 2; 5-6)

brothers, YOU need nothing to be written to YOU. For YOU yourselves know quite well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night(1 thessolonians 5;2)

But by the same word the heavens and the earth that are now are stored up for fire and are being reserved to the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly men.(2 peter 3; 7-13)



However, let this one fact not be escaping YOUR notice, beloved ones, that one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day. Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with YOU because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance. Yet Jehovah’s day will come as a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a hissing noise, but the elements being intensely hot will be dissolved, and earth and the works in it will be discovered.




Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of persons ought YOU to be in holy acts of conduct and deeds of godly devotion, awaiting and keeping close in mind the presence of the day of Jehovah, through which [the] heavens being on fire will be dissolved and [the] elements being intensely hot will melt! But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell




 
Conscience said:
Wow. Thank you for this! Are you a Jahovah's Witness, by the way?
i try my best,in my imperfect state:) to be a Jehovahs witness
 
hi mee,

don't Jehovah's Witnesses believe Michael the Archangel is Jesus? Well I know for sure that they separate God from the Christ, which is his Son. I'm not sure if he's Michael, but I do feel the same way, I never could get myself to see Christ and the Father as equal or the same Being. He's more like an angel to me :)
 
The apostle John had written that verse though, not Jesus personally. But I don't think he meant to be harsh. He was revealing the Christ's love towards humanity and those who aren't showing love for the Savior or love to their fellow brothers and in darkness.....

It may sound a bit harsh to non-christian that you should love Jesus and not reject Him (that is the most important part of Christian ethic afterall I would say), but there's more to it than that. Jesus himself says if we hate the Father, and even the Son there is still forgiveness. It's the Holy Spirit that we should not hate. To me that is meant by Christ's more universal teachings, that all may follow regardless of Religion, Race, or Creed.

There's alot of folks out there that like Christ's teachings and live by them, but don't even consider themselves christians. Some are Buddhists, Hindus, even Atheists.
 
"He was revealing the Christ's love towards humanity and those who aren't showing love for the Savior or love to their fellow brothers and in darkness....."

that last part should read "are in darkness." sorry lol
 
i dont think Jesus was being mean. Probably most of the world does not think he is mean either. I think Jesus did his very best in word and deed to show the world that there is one true God, through his life and love for God and for the people. His obedience & surrender to God is what made him the man he was. His obedience to the cross is what brought man eternal life & salvation.

Jesus entered in by the door & the sheep hear & know his voice and the little flock follows him into the fold.

Some just dont understand how Jesus is the mediator between God & man & in his eternal priesthood we live in the dispensation of grace.
Jesus loved righteousness and hated iniquity & he truly is the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world.

There is a nice page done here on unconditional love, set to the music of I WILL ALWAYS LOVE YOU & based on John 3:16.
I hope someone will be pleased & blessed by the page.

http://www.b4prayer.org/index6.html

John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
 
Marcion said:
hi mee,

don't Jehovah's Witnesses believe Michael the Archangel is Jesus? Well I know for sure that they separate God from the Christ, which is his Son. I'm not sure if he's Michael, but I do feel the same way, I never could get myself to see Christ and the Father as equal or the same Being. He's more like an angel to me :)
yes, there is every indication in the scriptures that jesus is michael .also jesus is Gods son and inferior to Jehovah God .jesus has been given great aurthority in the heavens and is now a king of Gods kingdom in the heavens, and is invisibley rulingfrom there.
 
Jesus called himself I am. Yes, the same I AM that spoked to Moses.

The Bible says that Jesus was not created, but is eternal - he is, and was, and will always be.

The Bible said that he created the world.

The Bible says of Jesus that though he is God, he came down as a man and humbled himself to die on a cross.

The Bible says in Jesus is the fulness of the Godhead.

Thats just a few attributes of Jesus from the Bible. Im curious, how did the Jehovah's Witness come to the conclussion that Jesus is an angel and not God?
 
Yes it's very possible they are the same. Some apocrypha texts give Jesus and Michael two separate characters, though both Michael and Jesus are angels/sons of God. It's also kinda sketchy in our own modern bibles today, but if I had to choose one of the angels of God, the most likely candidate would be Michael imo. He was the one who led God's angels against Satan's during the Rebellion. I'm not a JW, but I definately agree with more of their beliefs than most other Christian denominations. I don't worship any kind of images either, not even the cross. I don't think it's right to portray jesus suffering, I'd much rather remember the life he lived for us :)
 
In the Old Testament, Jesus was called "angel of the Lord." Maybe this is why they confuse Jesus with Micheal the angel? Think about this: If no angel is called the "Son" in Hebrews 1, then why is Jesus called the Son? Right there we put an end to the "Jesus is an angel" argument. You know? Jesus is eternal, he wasnt made.
 
Conscience:

Jesus being portrayed as God's chief angel is extremely ancient doctrine you know. The JW founders probably came to the conclusion for themselves that this felt right and desired to revive these beliefs. The Trinity was invented by the Catholic church who modified new testament writings to suit their own agenda. They were the first to portray the Trinity. The church fathers of Rome confirm this with their own hands. The beginning of Orthadox Christianity was split between these two beliefs. Many churches early on had God and Jesus separate, before they became Trinitarian due to the rise of Roman and Greek Orthadoxy, where they were forced to confiscate their beliefs or form anti-orthadox communities. But Even in the Catholic Church history there came times where none could agree on the Trinity or the nature of God. Arianism was rampid in the Church pretty early on. Some of the popes even agreed with heretical sects at times.
 
Well the angels are called "sons and daughters of God."

Jesus never said he was God, he said he was his Son. In fact, he even rebuked those that tried to equate him with his Father! He prayed and worshiped His Father in Heaven, and the Father even opens the Heavens and says "This is my beloved Son, whom I am well pleased." We could say right there that is proof Jesus and his Father are separate.

The knowledge of the Father's kingdom was never meant to be complex, like trying to understand some confusing paganized trinity :cool:
 
Hmm? Interesting. I'll tell you what I personally believe. I believe that the Bible is the total word of God. In it is all the truth that God wants us to know. I believe its more up to date than tomorrows news paper. I believe God has written his signature all over the Bible, to prove that he authored it. I believe that while the words: Trinity, demon, rapture, and Bible, arent in the Bible, the Bible clearly teaches it. I realy dont know why people get caught up on theological words, but hey, to each his own, I guess?

Jesus said that we should pray in the name of the "father, Son, and Holy Spirt." God in the book of Gen. says let "us" create. God the father, in the book of Hebrews calls Jesus "God." In the New Testament the Holy Spirit is called "Lord, and God." All the deciples called Jesus their "Savior and God." In the Old Testemant the Hebrews awaited the Day of the Messiah - the one that would come and be "God in the flesh." The book of John tells us that the word of God, which is God, became flesh and dwelled with man."

What more do we need to show us that God is Triune? No, Jesus is NOT the Father, nor is he the Holy Spirit. But, like the other 2 members of the Godhead, he is God, according to the Bible. Take any of the 3 persons away, and there would be NO God. As the New Testament says - In Jesus is the fullness of the mystery of the Godhead.
 
Well the angels are called "sons and daughters of God."

Certinly, they are known as Beni Elohim, or sons of God in Hebrew." But, read the book of Hebrews where it talks about the Son of God, i.e., the manifestion of God in human flesh. It says that Jesus, who is the Son of God, is higher than the angels. It calls Jesus the "Son" and not the "son." There's a difference.

Jesus never said he was God, he said he was his Son. In fact, he even rebuked those that tried to equate him with his Father! He prayed and worshiped His Father in Heaven, and the Father even opens the Heavens and says "This is my beloved Son, whom I am well pleased." We could say right there that is proof Jesus and his Father are separate.

In John 58:8, Jesus says "Before Abraham was I am." Notice when he said "I am" he made himself to be the Same I am that spoke with Moses. Also notice, that the Jews that he spoke with, understood EXACTLY what he was saying. They tried to kill him for it. One other thing. Notice Jesus didnt say "Before Abraham was, I 'was.'" Certianly, that could be taken to mean that he is an angel, which was created before man. But no, the Lord said "I am." He was saying that he is Eternal - without begining or end!
 
heh, well according to a verse in the pseudo-pauline Timothy, now this couldnt be coming from Paul but whoever wrote that letter tells us that we can all re-write scripture to suit our needs lol. The Bible is filled with alterations, quotations, editing and foreign stories from various world mythology. And of course the Judaizers like James and Peter would portray Christ as equal to God in some form of Godhead to explain to the masses, that was their motive from the beginning.

Ok so my beliefs are extremely unorthadox lol, you have your way and I have mine in Christ Jesus, at least there's that much, not trying to get after you or anything it's just my personal path in Christ.
 
I get what your saying. Dont feel to bad though, MOST people here dont agree with my beliefs. One other thing. Can you please show me where the Bible says we can "re-write" scripture?

Thanks!
 
I forgot to mention the Bible isn't exactly meant for my beliefs anyway, it was compiled and published for orthadox christians, not for dualists or gnostic christians, so I can't really back my statements very well based on the Bible alone, though I try to point out things that seem unorthadox and should be looked into further by us all. And you wouldn't consider apocrypha as also being sacred texts, so I guess you win the arguement based on what it says in the Bible. :)
 
unless I'm not looking at it correctly, it appears Paul is saying we can correct and reproof scriptural writings for instructing others:

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"
2 Timothy 3:16
 
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