Cain's wife...thoughts?

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JonMarc

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man, i just can't seem to get away from genesis the past couple of days. i started reading through the old posts to make sure this wasn't brought up already, but i kept seeing too many old ones i wanted to read and reply to and i was already up until 5 this morning referencing the things that i posted about yesterday, so i decided to just post it. my apologies if it's been covered already. i don't have my bible on me right now so i'm going to do it like this. it's all in the very beginning of genesis for those of you that don't know and would only take five minutes to read if you're curious about the scriptural accuracy of this post... thanks for bearing with me all!! and please point out any inaccuracies, discrepancies, bad grammar, mispelled words, or just plain wasted space...

In genesis the timeline goes something like this... (i'm adding in things prior to cain's birth because i feel they bring up some interesting points)
adam created. animals created and placed before adam. adam names animals by kind. a companion for adam is created. adam calls this creation woman, because she came of man. original sin. adam questioned by God. adam blames 'the woman whom you gave to be with me'. woman blames serpent. serpent is cursed. woman is cursed. man is cursed. adam calls out his wife's name (first reference to woman as adam's wife), eve as she is the mother to all the world.

**note that prior to this point he did not name her as an individual. it is not until after the curse of childbearing that she is referred to as his wife and named the mother of all life on earth. this relates to my other post, as well as to lunamoth's theory that marriage is a union for the purpose of providing stability for a family, instead of the actual act of sex being purely for family.**

moving right along...


adam and eve cast out of paradise. cain is born. able is born. cain slays able. cain is cast away from god, but marked so that he should not be slain lest he be avenged seven fold. cain takes a wife, and knows her, creating enoch. a city is built and named after enoch. so on down cain's line to lamech, then begins the geneology of adam and the story of noah.

now.... where did cain's wife come from? cain was created, then able, then the murder, then the banishment, when did another woman come into play here?

i already have my thoughts on the matter, but would like to hear the thoughts of others....

again, sorry if this has already been brought up, and i'm pretty sure it has because it gets brought up to me all of the time...
if you read this whole post only to get to the question and feel cheated because you've already replied to it elsewhere, i'll send you a postcard for your troubles...;)
 
People before Adam:

JonMarc wrote:

"adam and eve cast out of paradise. cain is born. able is born. cain slays able. cain is cast away from god, but marked so that he should not be slain lest he be avenged seven fold. cain takes a wife, and knows her, creating enoch. a city is built and named after enoch. so on down cain's line to lamech, then begins the geneology of adam and the story of noah.

now.... where did cain's wife come from? cain was created, then able, then the murder, then the banishment, when did another woman come into play here?

i already have my thoughts on the matter, but would like to hear the thoughts of others...."

My own thoughts on the matter are that of course Cain's wife was from another community of people around the land of Nod. If you read the creation story literally and accept it as word for word as literal and without contradiction...there are problems.

I think the Bible is remarkable because it contains some of these interesting issues that people have asked about over the centuries and will continue to...

But my own faith teaches there were people before Adam so there is no problem with Cain's wife for me.

We see Adam as the initiator of a prohetic cycle.

- Art

;)
 
Many ask this question thinking they’ve found a "mistake" in the Bible—that there must have been other people besides Adam and Eve. Scripture tells us that Adam is "the first man" (1 Corinthians 15:45); that there were no other humans when he was created, because God said, "It is not good that the man should be alone" (Genesis 2:18); and that Eve is "the mother of all living" (Genesis 3:20). Cain and Abel, then, must have married distant sisters. All of the first-generation siblings married each other in order to populate the earth. At that time there was no law against incest. But as the population grew large enough, and as the risk of genetic problems increased because of sin’s curse, God outlawed marriage between siblings.
 
i will put some of mine up here in a nut shell.

I know there was something else here before Adam, yet I still do not see a contradiction in the bible on this. Even if Cain did take a wife from a previous group of people before Adam, the scripture tells us everything & everyone was destroyed in the flood. While Cain recieved a mark, he also recieved aid, that no one would slay him.
It is possible that the seed of Cain made it on to the ark with one of the 8, in the 3 daughters (wives).

We still have, we are all of one blood, Adam was the first man & Eve is the mother of all living. I also see the possibility that Cain did take on one from the seed of Adam for a wife, considering how fast humans can multiply & incest was pretty common. This is what they were supposed to do, Multiply.

After Adam was made & set out of the garden, we also have, (thorns & thistles) AND for there was not a man to til the land. I would think there would be people tilling the land somewhere. But here we see there was not.

So, some are seeing 2 different creations of man. I see that possibility, yet I do not feel that it directly relates to the ages that we know for sure from that side of the flood & I am not real concerned with with trying to incorporate the bible with what went on here prior to Adam because there is too much speculation. Yet we know there was something(s).

It is also possible that what we know of before Adam, may not have still been there when Adam was made, as far as another race, because as far as I can see, there is still a gap. I dont think anyone can say for sure on this.

Because of the flood, it does not really matter where Cains wife came from, from what I can see.
I do not believe anything in the bible is a myth, but if others want to, they are entitled to that.
There is a lot more to it that I believe in, leading man (men & women) from Adam to Jesus, to the present, but I will stop with that.:)
 
My take on it...

Adam and Eve were the first of the Jewish people. There were already other people in other places. Humans have always been pretty territorial, and Cain was marked (protected by God) so that he wouldn't be killed when he inevitably came in contact with other tribes/cultures. If it were just his brothers and sisters to worry about, no mark would be needed, because by that point there just would not have been that many people if only Adam and Eve were having kids- in natural conditions, women only can support having about one child every 3-4 years. Cain ended up marrying into another culture.

As for agriculture- people lived for a long time without it. They were hunter-gatherers, living off the wild foods of the land, and some of those groups still exist. All biological and cultural evidence points to hunter-gatherers being the first form of economy and society. Agriculture is a pretty recent phenomenon, and domestication of livestock preceded domestication of plants. So it isn't surprising that when Adam and Eve were kicked out of the Garden, there wasn't any agriculture yet. Of course, there is a focus on agriculture in the Genesis creation narrative, because the Jewish people were agricultural and in all agricultural societies this is a huge deal.

All creation narratives in every culture have a story about the beginning of Humanity, and "Humanity" always refers to the particular culture in question. Ancient peoples routinely did not think of the other humans around them as real "people," but rather as folks that were similar but fundamentally different. The first religions were animistic and humans saw all life-forms as different kinds of "people," so seeing those folks over there as different "people" than us, on a nearly species level, is not nearly so incomprehensible as today.
Overall, I think the whole story is symbolic anyway, and has very deep and beautiful messages. All creation narratives are not really about creation. They are statements about humanity's place in the world, relationship to God, etc. Of course, this is a comparative and scholarly view rather than a church doctrinal one. But I've meditated on the Genesis creation account and prayed over it for many years, and I've had some profound experiences and messages arise from the practice. It's such a rich passage...
 
There were other people here, as the other posters are saying.
Throw out the leaven of the teachings of the organized religions, and
look with the eyes of your heart. :)
 
Kindest Regards, JonMark, and welcome to CR!
where did cain's wife come from? cain was created, then able, then the murder, then the banishment, when did another woman come into play here?
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I have gone over this a number of times, but I'll try to give a brief.
On the 6th day, God created "adam", without the article, male and female. He rested on the 7th day, and He created "ha-adam", with the article, "the man Adam", on the 8th day. Cain took a wife of the sixth day creation.
I am also of the opinion that the flood of Noah was not worldwide, that is, it did not cover the entire planet. The geological record does not support a worldwide flood, Glenn Morton covers this well in his stuff. (Consider Australia alone, it contradicts a worldwide deluge) I am of the opinion that a remnant of the sixth day creation survived the deluge.

I will go a step further, Cain is not included in the geneology of Adam because he was not the son of Adam. The serpent seduced Eve, in everything that entails. Eve carried twins, Cain and Able, but by different daddies. I hear it is medically possible to carry twins of different fathers, but in fairness I haven't looked into it. But that is why Cain is not included in the geneology of Adam, Adam was not Cain's daddy.

The Bible is the story of the family and descendents of "ha-Adam."
 
Hey Juan:)

I am just wondering how you interpret this, if Cain is not a descendant of Adam?

1 And Adam 'knew' Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

I am asking because later Cain 'knew' his wife & she bare Enoch, making Enoch, Cains son. KNEW, being the most initmate term between a man & woman.

then I am just wondering in brief about Gen 7 & 9. How do you interpret these verses if some things survived? OR do you have another place where you get the survival record from?

Genesis 7:21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:

Genesis 7:22 All in whose nostrils [was] the breath of life, of all that [was] in the dry [land], died.

Genesis 7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained [alive], and they that [were] with him in the ark.



Genesis 9:15 And I will remember my covenant, which [is] between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.
 
MannaBoBanna said:
There were other people here, as the other posters are saying.
Throw out the leaven of the teachings of the organized religions, and
look with the eyes of your heart. :)
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well, i am not saying there were other people here, so dont hold me to it as a sure thing. I would go just the opposite with it.:)
 
JonMarc said:
**note that prior to this point he did not name her as an individual. it is not until after the curse of childbearing that she is referred to as his wife and named the mother of all life on earth. this relates to my other post, as well as to lunamoth's theory that marriage is a union for the purpose of providing stability for a family, instead of the actual act of sex being purely for family.**
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what about in 2:25 & 3:8, she was called his wife, prior to the curse. is that what you mean?

or do you just mean her name Eve, after the curse.
 
juantoo3 said:
...Kindest Regards, JonMark, and welcome to CR!

I have gone over this a number of times, but I'll try to give a brief.
On the 6th day, God created "adam", without the article, male and female. He rested on the 7th day, and He created "ha-adam", with the article, "the man Adam", on the 8th day...
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thank you juan. i do not have time to go into now as i have work in fifteen minutes, but i will just say that you've pretty much hit on my own feelings on the matter with your post. as for the flood thing, that is new to me as i have not looked into it, but am glad you talked about it because it gives me something new to research! thanks...
:)
 
Just read the story symbolically: "Adam" means "man" and "Eve" means "woman". I believe in Darwin's evolution theory and I think that up to Abraham or maybe even Moses, the Bible shouldn't be read literally.
 
Bandit said:
what about in 2:25 & 3:8, she was called his wife, prior to the curse. is that what you mean?

or do you just mean her name Eve, after the curse.
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no that's true bandit... like i said i wasn't posting with a bible at hand and those were just little notes as i was thinking. the eve part of the question is still interesting to me, and i personally believe it goes along the lines of what juan said, as i believe man's portion in the history of the seven days of creation is actually seperate from the creation of adam and eve. good catch though, i don't mean to put any misleading or non scriptural references down. thanks!
 
queenofsheba said:
Just read the story symbolically: "Adam" means "man" and "Eve" means "woman". I believe in Darwin's evolution theory and I think that up to Abraham or maybe even Moses, the Bible shouldn't be read literally.
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Eve means the FIRST woman & life giver. I think I will stick with a literal Adam & Eve. A literal Abraham. A literal Cain & Abel & a literal flood, a literal Jesus & a literal Bible & take some of what Darwin says as symbolic.:)
 
JonMarc said:
no that's true bandit... like i said i wasn't posting with a bible at hand and those were just little notes as i was thinking. the eve part of the question is still interesting to me, and i personally believe it goes along the lines of what juan said, as i believe man's portion in the history of the seven days of creation is actually seperate from the creation of adam and eve. good catch though, i don't mean to put any misleading or non scriptural references down. thanks!
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that's cool JonMarc. but then the people before Adam would be under the curse of death because of Adams trangression & several other complications in the scripture. I am seeing it as a reiteration of the 6th day & that God has not yet rested, because perfected man is His rest. From what I can see the sixth day is mans day.

But that is ok if you see it different. I wont argue or challenge & I know you don't mean to mislead.:)
I only ask a couple of questions to better understand where others are going with things, not to hinder them.
 
Bandit said:
that's cool JonMarc. but then the people before Adam would be under the curse of death because of Adams trangression & several other complications in the scripture. I am seeing it as a reiteration of the 6th day & that God has not yet rested, because perfected man is His rest. From what I can see the sixth day is mans day.
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interesting point...agree to disagree?:) haha. regardless, i think the important point the creation story is trying to show is God's part in it! believing that, the rest are details which we can pick apart to help examine our other personal beliefs and keep our grey matter going!
 
JonMarc said:
interesting point...agree to disagree?:) haha. regardless, i think the important point the creation story is trying to show is God's part in it! believing that, the rest are details which we can pick apart to help examine our other personal beliefs and keep our grey matter going!
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right:) . so take it away & i will just kind of hang out & listen to what you are seeing there.
 
Many skeptics have claimed that, for Cain to find a wife, there must have been other ‘races’ of people on the Earth who were not descendants of Adam and Eve.

To many people, this question is a stumbling block to accepting the creation account in Genesis and its record of only one man and woman at the beginning of history

The first man

‘Therefore, even as through one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed on all men inasmuch as all sinned (Romans 5:12).’

​
We read in 1 Corinthians 15:45 that Adam was ‘the first man.’ God did not start by making a whole group of men.

The Bible makes it clear that only the descendants of Adam can be saved. Romans 5 teaches that we sin because Adam sinned. The death penalty, which Adam received as judgment for his sin of rebellion, also passed on to all his descendants.

Since Adam was the head of the human race when he ‘fell,’ we who were in the loins of Adam ‘fell’ also. Thus, we are all separated from God. The final consequence of sin would be separation from God in our sinful state forever. However, the good news is that there is a way for us to return to God!

Because a man brought sin and death into the world, all the descendants of Adam need a sinless Man to pay the penalty for sin and the resulting judgment of death. However, the Bible teaches that ‘all have sinned’ (Romans 3:23). What is the solution?

The last Adam

God provided the solution—a way to deliver man from his wretched state. Paul explains in 1 Corinthians 15 that God provided another Adam! The Son of God took on a human nature in addition to His full divinity, becoming a perfect God-man—Jesus Christ. In His humanity He was a descendant of Adam (through Noah, Abraham and David)—He thus became our relation! He is called ‘the last Adam’ (1 Corinthians 15:45), because he took the place of the first Adam. He became the new head and, because he was sinless, He was able to pay the penalty for sin:

‘For since by a man came death, by a man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive (1 Corinthians 15:21–22).’8

​
Christ suffered death (the penalty for sin) on the cross, shedding his blood (‘without shedding of blood is no forgiveness’ Hebrews 9:22) so that those who repent of their sin of rebellion and put their trust in His work on the cross can be reconciled to God.

Since the Bible describes all human beings as sinners, except the God-Man Jesus, and we are all related (‘And He has made all nations of men of one blood to dwell on all the face of the Earth’ Acts 17:26), the gospel makes sense only on the basis that all humans alive and all who have ever lived are descendants of the first man Adam.9 If this were not so, then the gospel could not be explained or defended.

The Book of Hebrews amplifies how Jesus took upon himself the nature of a man to save mankind (Hebrews 2:11–18). Seven centuries before this happened, the Prophet Isaiah spoke of Him as literally the ‘Kinsman-Redeemer,’ i.e. one who is related by blood to those he redeems (Isaiah 59:20, uses the same Hebrew word goel as used to describe Boaz in relation to Ruth).

Thus, only descendants of the first man Adam can be saved.

All related

Thus, there was only one man at the beginning—made from the dust of the Earth (Genesis 2:7).

This also means that Cain’s wife was a descendant of Adam. She could not have come from another ‘race’ of people and must be one of Adam’s descendants.

The first woman

In Genesis 3:20 we read, ‘And Adam called his wife’s name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.’10 In other words, all people are descendants of Adam and Eve—she was the first woman.

Eve was made from Adam’s rib (or side, Hebrew tsela, Genesis 2:21–24)—this was a unique event. Jesus (Matthew 19:4–6) and Paul (Ephesians 5:31) use this historical and one-time event as the doctrinal foundation for the marriage of one man to one woman.

Also, in Genesis 2:20, we are told that when Adam looked at the animals, he could not find a mate—there was no one of his kind.

All this makes it obvious that there was only one woman, Adam’s wife, at the beginning. There were never any other women around who were not Eve’s descendants.

If Christians cannot defend that all humans (including Cain’s wife) can trace their ancestry ultimately to Adam and Eve, then how can they understand and explain the gospel? How can they justify sending missionaries to every tribe and nation? Therefore, one needs to be able to answer the question about Cain’s wife, to illustrate that Christians can defend the gospel and all that it teaches.

Cain’s brothers and sisters

Cain was the first child of Adam and Eve recorded in Scripture (Genesis 4:1). His brothers, Abel (Genesis 4:2) and Seth (Genesis 4:25), were part of the first generation of children ever born on this Earth.

Even though only these three males are mentioned by name, Adam and Eve had other children. In Genesis 5:4 a statement sums up the life of Adam and Eve—‘And the days of Adam after he had fathered Seth were eight hundred years. And he fathered sons and daughters.’ This does not say when they were born. Many could have been born in the 130 years (Genesis 5:3) before Seth was born.

During their lives, Adam and Eve had a number of male and female children. The Jewish historian Josephus wrote that, ‘The number of Adam’s children, as says the old tradition, was thirty-three sons and twenty-three daughters.’11

The Bible does not tell us how many children were born to Adam and Eve. However, considering their long life spans (Adam lived for 930 years—Genesis 5:5), it would seem reasonable to suggest there were many! Remember, they were commanded to ‘Be fruitful, and multiply’ (Genesis 1:28).

The wife

If we now work totally from Scripture, without any personal prejudices or other extra-Biblical ideas, then back at the beginning, when there was only the first generation, brothers would have had to have married sisters or there would be no more generations!

We are not told when Cain married or any of the details of other marriages and children, but we can say for certain that some brothers had to marry their sisters at the beginning of human history.
 
Many skeptics have claimed that, for Cain to find a wife, there must have been other ‘races’ of people on the Earth who were not descendants of Adam and Eve.

To many people, this question is a stumbling block to accepting the creation account in Genesis and its record of only one man and woman at the beginning of history
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right mynameisstephen & the rest of what you have pulled together is pretty much how i see that too.

another interesting point there with what you already have is Cain built a city & named it Enoch (after his son). there is nothing there that indicates there was already a city in the 'land' of Nod.
some feel they need to pull the 'prehistoric' into this (which is Gods creation too).
some feel that even the serpant/Satan procreated with Eve (but we cross the line there with THAT WHICH IS BORN OF FLESH IS FLESH...)

So far, i believe the prehistoric is a seperate issue from modern man as we know him & even if there was another at the same time, according to the bible it all, every living THING was destroyed, because that is why God collapsed the canopy of waters, to destroy the evil.

People multiply faster than we give credit for. Like in 40 years we went from 3.5 billion to over 6 billion:)

i do not see any difference in me & a jew or an african or japanese, except for a little different color in skin or a bigger nose or smaller ears & of course there customs. I have irish, indian, german & swedish in me.
now i do see a big difference in me & monkeys & ummm, tadpoles.

for me, i think all the other creation stories out there on this are pretty much being derived from the creation story that we are speaking of here in the bible. like the telephone wire game, we play as kids.

but to each there own.
& Welcome to CR Steven:)
 
very good information stephen! as with most of your other posts i've seen, you are very throrough in your explanations and scriptural support for such. i am not saying i see a contradiction in the bible because of this point, i simply see things slightly differently than you do.

i said juan's post hit on my own beliefs, but did not go into depths on my own beliefs, which do differ from juan's some.
so....bandit....here i go!!

incidentally... somehow i missed the post by path of one and wanted to comment on it quickly....
in addition to what you said in your first passage...which is in agreeance with my own beliefs, here are some more thoughts of mine...

cain said he could not bear God's punishment, that he would be hidden from His presence, a restless wanderer.... though i do not infer that cain literally left the scope of God's sight, i interpret this banishment 'from God's view' symbolically as cain's leaving God's people, becoming that wanderer, and thus ending up wed to a woman from another culture.

Now...God sees all and knows all, is present in all places.... IS all. except for hell... which in my eyes is, forgetting for the time being anything about fire and brimstone, the state of being completely separated and, for all intensive purpose, ignored by God.

consider this... god created adam and eve... god also created others... the story of the Bible follows the geneological line of adam because it was adam and his wife eve who sinned. and it was a descendant of adam who was spared from the flood. the line of adam are the only ones who can be saved... they are the only ones who need saving, as they are the only ones cursed by adam's sin. perhaps others were dwelling in the garden of eden, perhaps they stayed there. perhaps these were the sons of God the bible speaks of before the flood.... who later took the daughters of men from adam's line as their wives. this displeased God, for although they did not directly obey anything He had told them to do or not to do (sin) as adam did, they were not perfect, they were, in fact, inherently evil at heart. God then decides to bring the flood, but spares one man and his people, for that man (Noah) found favor in God's eyes by being a '...righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he walked with God.' - Genesis 6:9

i am still working many things out regarding the specifics of my faith, the creation story being only one of them. but these are some ideas that i've struggled with and thought and prayed about much. i am not 100% firm in my belief in this interpretation of the events layed out in the beginning of genesis, but all of this is stuff that i've come up with so far. thanks for reading!
 
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