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Just ran across some words by this 6th century Christian thinker which i thought I'd post for all of to reflect on and associate to-thought about posting it in Christian section, but thought it had wider applicability. Guy certainly believed in using alot of words to express the ineffability of Ultimate Reality;)

"So this is what we say. The Cause of all is above all and is not inexistent, lifeless, speechless, mindless. It is not a material body, and has neither shape nor form, quality, quantity, or weight. It is not in any place and can neither be seen nor be touched. It is neither perceived nor is it perceptible. It suffers neither disorder nor disturbance and is overwhelmed by no earthly passions. It is not powerless and subject to the distrubances caused by sense perception. It endures no deprivation of light. It passes through no change, decay, division, loss, no ebb and flow, nothing of which the sense may be aware. None of all this can either be identified with it nor attributed to it...Again as we climb higher we say this. It is not soul or mind, nor does it possess imagination, conviction, speech, or understanding. Nor is it speech per se, it cannot be spoken of and it cannot be grasped by understanding. It is not number or order, greatness or smallness, equality or inequality, similarity or dissimilarity. It is not immovable, moving, or at rest. It has no power, it is not power, nor is it light. It is not a substance, nor is it eternity nor time. It cannot be grasped by the understanding since it is neither one nor oneness, divinity nor goodness. Nor is it a spirit in the sense in which we understand the term. It is not sonship nor fatherhood and it is nothing known to us or to any other being. It falls neither within the predicate of nonbeing or being. Existed beings do not know it as it actually is and it does not know them as they are. There is no speaking of it, nor name nor knowledge of it. Darkness and light, error and truth-it is none of these. It is beyond assertion and denial. We make assertions and denials of what is next to it, but never of it, for it is both beyond every assertion, being the perfect and unique cause of all things, and, by virtue its preeminently simple and absolute nature, free of every limitation, beyond every limitation; it is also beyond every denial."

Now there's a koan to ponder! take care, Earl
I see themes in this that apply to mystical traditions of probably every stripe. Take for instance Buddhism & excerpts from 1 its famous sutras, the Heart Sutra: "Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva when practicing deeply the "Prajna Paramita perceived that all five skandhas are empty and was saved from all suffering and distress. Shariputra, form does not differ from emptiness, (emptiness in buddhsim meaning essential the indescribability of Absolute Reality), emptiness does not differ from form. That which is form is emptiness; that which is emptiness is form. The same is true of feelings, perceptions, impulses, consciousness. Shariputra, all dharmas are marked with emptiness; they do not appear nor disappear, are not tainted or pure, do not increase or decrease. Therefore in emptiness, no form, no feelings, perceptions, impulses, consciousness, no eyes, no ears, no nose, no tongue, no body, no mind; no color, no sound, no smell, no taste, no touch, no object of realm of mind-consciousness; no ignorance and also no extinction of old-age and death and also no extinction of suffering, no origination, no stopping, no path, no cognition, also no attainment. With nothing to attain the bodhisattva depends on Prajna Paramita and his mind is no hindrance."

Interesting comment by Pseudo here re how various assertions and denial are or can be made about "what's next" to the "Cause" of All, but no-"thing" that can be applied to the "Cause." His comments also speak to the common path of all mystical traditions-common in the sense that though they may have certain unique meditative/contemplative approaches, almost all of their approaches are to enable one to do "higher" as in sense of transcending conceptual limitations and self-constrictions or "deeper" in the same sense. Love that phrase from Psalms I posted as my signature: "Deep calls out to Deep." To hear the call from the "Deepest" part of the Cause-of-All, one has to find and go through the "deepest" part of oneself-beyond the superficial feelings, impulses, and self-identities of the moment (and those are literally quite fleeting) to that deepest essence of each of us-an essence that is shared by all at the same time. When we find it, we feel deeply connected , "called to" the Deep in all other lifeforms and the Deep of it All, (in terms of icons, the horizontal and vertical arms of the cross or the circular icon known as the enso in Zen both seem to me to reflect this Deep calling to Deep).

Take care, Earl
earl said:
It cannot be grasped by the understanding since it is neither one nor oneness, divinity nor goodness.

I found this startling, in a positive way.

Thanks earl. :)

Hi Earl -
Excellent post!

Hi Lunamoth
"Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all. [And after they have reigned they will rest.]"
Gospel of Thomas. Logion 2.

One might say 'startled' instead of 'disturbed.'

And Earl, could I say this logion is not so much a koan, but a commentary on what happens when the koan is 'found'?