Revelation 5;13

mee

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Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing:
"To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
be praise and honor and glory and power,
for ever and ever!" NIV............................................................................And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever...KJV

And every creature that is in heaven and on earth and underneath the earth and on the sea, and all the things in them, I heard saying: "To the One sitting on the throne and to the Lamb be the blessing and the honor and the glory and the might forever and ever....NWT. Will it not be great when the opposer satan and all who support him is put out of the way by Jehovah God . and then with Jehovahs blessing faithful ones of this system will begin to work on changes that will last forever....1 corinthians 7;31 just think no more war on the scene,because God will make all wars to ceaseto the ends of the earth.psalm 46;9. no more food shortages there will be plenty ..psalm 72;16.No more prisons, police stations, sexually transmitted diseases,drug czars,divorce courts, bankruptcy, and terrorism...psalm37;29....Isaiah 33;24...Rev21;3-4 and joy of joys the resurrection of billions of those in the memorial tombs to come and join in the great time.when the changes are complete the earth will be a paradise:) wow Jehovah God and his son the lamb certainly deserve honor for acomplishing great things in the future would you not agree ?so the question is are we faithful to Jehovah God and his son the lamb to be a part of this paradise?

 
mee said:
wow Jehovah God and his son the lamb certainly deserve honor for acomplishing great things in the future would you not agree ?

Not really - surely we honour those for what they have already accomplished, rather than what people "say" they will accomplish?
 
mee said:
and then with Jehovahs blessing faithful ones of this system will begin to work on changes that will last forever....1 corinthians 7;31 just think no more war on the scene,because God will make all wars to ceaseto the ends of the earth.psalm 46;9. no more food shortages there will be plenty ..psalm 72;16.No more prisons, police stations, sexually transmitted diseases,drug czars,divorce courts, bankruptcy, and terrorism...psalm37;29....Isaiah 33;24

...Rev21;3-4 and joy of joys the resurrection of billions of those in the memorial tombs to come and join in the great time.when the changes are complete the earth will be a paradise:)

...so the question is are we faithful to Jehovah God and his son the lamb to be a part of this paradise?

Depends on if your life is a living hell. Though I know of wars and famine and prisons and police stations, STDs, drugs, divorce courts, bankruptcy and terrorism; these things don't personally effect my life. So this message would be especially appealing to those who live that lifestyle. So the story tells that one who finds this message especially appealing would be one who is searching for a life absent of such atrocities. I say go to an AA meeting and practice abstinence (there are great ads promoting the use of condoms as well), try to monitor your credit use to avoid bankruptcy, and, terrorism.... Hmmmm.
But overall, my life is good. Praise God. I'll enjoy it today and not get so absorbed in death and destruction. ;)
 
stevemb88 said:
Is that a question? Or is it a retoricle question?:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
i think it is food for thought .because acording to the bible it will only be faithful ones who will be around to enjoy good conditions on the earth, even if we as individuals are trying our best to live to Gods standards as set out in the gospels, there is still war and bad things going on around us ,so when the earth is only doing Gods will ,it will be great ,but the bible tells me that only the rightous will survive when God steps into the affairs of humans

(Proverbs 2:22) As regards the wicked, they will be cut off from the very earth; and as for the treacherous, they will be torn away from it


(Psalm 37:9) For evildoers themselves will be cut off, But those hoping in Jehovah are the ones that will possess the earth

(Proverbs 2:21) For the upright are the ones that will reside in the earth, and the blameless are the ones that will be left over in it


(Matthew 5:5) "Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth

 
truthseeker said:
Depends on if your life is a living hell. Though I know of wars and famine and prisons and police stations, STDs, drugs, divorce courts, bankruptcy and terrorism; these things don't personally effect my life. So this message would be especially appealing to those who live that lifestyle. So the story tells that one who finds this message especially appealing would be one who is searching for a life absent of such atrocities. I say go to an AA meeting and practice abstinence (there are great ads promoting the use of condoms as well), try to monitor your credit use to avoid bankruptcy, and, terrorism.... Hmmmm.
But overall, my life is good. Praise God. I'll enjoy it today and not get so absorbed in death and destruction. ;)
Yes i agree its good to enjoy the life that Jehovah God has given us, and also to try our best to live in line with the gospels, but those things do effect us in the long run , thats why there is crime around, so even if we personally are not in to those things we can be the victims of those things .but the bible promises that there will be a time when those things will be done away with .and no matter how rightous we as individuals maybe , we do not have the power to bring the dead back to life in the resurrection that is some promise dont you think?
 
mee said:
Yes i agree its good to enjoy the life that Jehovah God has given us, and also to try our best to live in line with the gospels, but those things do effect us in the long run , thats why there is crime around, so even if we personally are not in to those things we can be the victims of those things .but the bible promises that there will be a time when those things will be done away with .and no matter how rightous we as individuals maybe , we do not have the power to bring the dead back to life in the resurrection that is some promise dont you think?

There is a resurrection right now as we live and the dead are being brought back to life. Those who are being born again experience a new paradise on earth. Is that not enough? Is that not what it is supposed to be?
 
truthseeker said:
There is a resurrection right now as we live and the dead are being brought back to life. Those who are being born again experience a new paradise on earth. Is that not enough? Is that not what it is supposed to be?
i see what you mean about a spiritual resurrection but the bible promises a resurrection from the memorial tombs, and Jesus himself when he was on the earth showed on a small scale how he can resurrect peoplefrom the dead. when Jesus resurrected Lazurus he showed on a small scale how with Gods power he can bring ones back from the dead.
Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment...john 5;28-29

With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: "Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away...rev 21;3-4

 
So those who have been cremated don't stand a chance, eh?

I think a spiritual resurrection is sufficient. I don't think it is necessary to crave the flesh to such a point that we must be resurrected in that way too. To me, the resurrection scenario sounds alot like the eastern thought of rebirth, unless, of course, you are certain you know all the ways of which spirituality and God operates - which I don't claim to and try to take it one step at a time. You're bound to miss the blessing of life that God has given when you're overly concerned with the happenings of death and the afterlife.
 
truthseeker said:
So those who have been cremated don't stand a chance, eh?

I think a spiritual resurrection is sufficient. I don't think it is necessary to crave the flesh to such a point that we must be resurrected in that way too. To me, the resurrection scenario sounds alot like the eastern thought of rebirth, unless, of course, you are certain you know all the ways of which spirituality and God operates - which I don't claim to and try to take it one step at a time. You're bound to miss the blessing of life that God has given when you're overly concerned with the happenings of death and the afterlife.
the bible tells me that the memorial tombs refer to those in Gods memory, so even if a person is cremated it makes no difference to Jehovah God , after all , when someone is cremated they just go to dust a bit quicker LOL .we all end up as dust in the long run some quicker than others.but if we are in Gods memory he has the power to resurrect us in the new world. the basic idea of remembrance is the word used in this verse about the memorial tombs the word is....
(mne·mei´on )this does not mean just the grave but the thought of remembrance by God

 
mee said:
the bible tells me that the memorial tombs refer to those in Gods memory, so even if a person is cremated it makes no difference to Jehovah God , after all , when someone is cremated they just go to dust a bit quicker LOL .we all end up as dust in the long run some quicker than others.but if we are in Gods memory he has the power to resurrect us in the new world. the basic idea of remembrance is the word used in this verse about the memorial tombs the word is....
(mne·mei´on )this does not mean just the grave but the thought of remembrance by God

Sounds like a spiritual resurrection to me. If we'll be taking on a physical form, sounds like rebirth to me...
 
truthseeker said:
Sounds like a spiritual resurrection to me. If we'll be taking on a physical form, sounds like rebirth to me...
would you not agree that when Jehovah created man he did not create him to die in the first place, it was only through the sin of Adam that we are in a dieing state
That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned— romans 5;12 the only time that Jehovah spoke of Adam going to dust was after the sin

(Genesis 3:19) In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return...but thankfully we have a hope in Jesus christ

(1 Corinthians 15:22) For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive..... yes Jesus has the power to resurrect as was seen with Lazurus

 
mee said:
would you not agree that when Jehovah created man he did not create him to die in the first place, it was only through the sin of Adam that we are in a dieing state
True.
That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned— romans 5;12 the only time that Jehovah spoke of Adam going to dust was after the sin
Okay...
(Genesis 3:19) In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground,
The Bible that I read from doesn't say that. This seems to have a different meaning than what I read.
...for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return...but thankfully we have a hope in Jesus christ
Yes. I agree.
(1 Corinthians 15:22) For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive..... yes Jesus has the power to resurrect as was seen with Lazurus
Yes, I believe that Jesus resurrected Lazarus. This still doesn't tell me that what you are talking about is not a resurrection of the spirit - even now today as we live. If God will resurrect even those of us who were cremated by giving us new flesh, then it sounds like a western thought process of the eastern thought of rebirth. Without the spirit, man is the walking dead. Spirit is essential to the life of man and man's connection with God. Why does God need to give us flesh for us to be in a paradise? Sounds gratifying for man when the Christian's goal should be to live to gratify God. God need not gratify us by taking on flesh or to describe a paradise as one in which we will take on flesh. For me, a paradise would be one in which I could dwell among God and the angels.

If the earth is to be changed into one of a paradise, could that be an earth of the spiritual realm? And if not - maybe because God made the earth to be a physical realm - then God need not defy any other law by giving us flesh that was doomed to die in which to this day He has not gone back on that promise.
 
mee said:
would you not agree that when Jehovah created man he did not create him to die in the first place...

Genesis 1:26-27 (King James Version)



26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
 
BlaznFattyz said:
Genesis 1:26-27 (King James Version)



26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
yes we are created in Gods image just as the bible tells us , humans are capable of displaying the attributes of God such as love, justice, wisdom and power. Jehovah God has these in abundance so we are able to display these and imitate our God, if wanted of coarse
 
truthseeker said:
True.

Okay...

The Bible that I read from doesn't say that. This seems to have a different meaning than what I read.

Yes. I agree.

Yes, I believe that Jesus resurrected Lazarus. This still doesn't tell me that what you are talking about is not a resurrection of the spirit - even now today as we live. If God will resurrect even those of us who were cremated by giving us new flesh, then it sounds like a western thought process of the eastern thought of rebirth. Without the spirit, man is the walking dead. Spirit is essential to the life of man and man's connection with God. Why does God need to give us flesh for us to be in a paradise? Sounds gratifying for man when the Christian's goal should be to live to gratify God. God need not gratify us by taking on flesh or to describe a paradise as one in which we will take on flesh. For me, a paradise would be one in which I could dwell among God and the angels.

If the earth is to be changed into one of a paradise, could that be an earth of the spiritual realm? And if not - maybe because God made the earth to be a physical realm - then God need not defy any other law by giving us flesh that was doomed to die in which to this day He has not gone back on that promise.
well i think the way that people believe has a lot to do with what they think the spirit is, the bible does not tell us that Adam was given a spirit or soul,but the bible tells us that he is a soul which is the whole person not a seperate thing inside of us, some think that the soul is a shadowy thing inside of us that goes back to God when we die , but when the bible says the spirit goes back to God it just means that only God has the power to give us life again, the life-force is from God . regarding Genesis 3;19 please could you tell me what your bible says in this scripture as i have looked in the KJV and it says the same meaning as the NWT ,so what bible are you looking at as i like to compare. i also believe that the resurrection hope is a major belief in the bible , but the hope of the resurrection has been lost and mixed in with Greek teaching about a seperate spirit or shadowy thing inside of us , but the hebrew scriptures did not have this belief about something inside us , but only the hope of a real resurrection as flesh and blood
The resurrection does not harmonize with the idea that humans have an immortal soul—a view held by the Greek philosopher Plato and not a bible teaching. of coarse Jehovah God can resurrect us as a spirit body like himself as he will do for the limited number of 144,000 but the basic teaching of the resurrection was always the resurrection into a paradise earth, man was made for the earth thats why Jehovah created the earth it was for man to live on

 
mee said:
well i think the way that people believe has a lot to do with what they think the spirit is, the bible does not tell us that Adam was given a spirit or soul,but the bible tells us that he is a soul which is the whole person not a seperate thing inside of us, some think that the soul is a shadowy thing inside of us that goes back to God when we die , but when the bible says the spirit goes back to God it just means that only God has the power to give us life again, the life-force is from God.
God breathed life breath into Adam, which I believe is the Spirit. I believe the soul is the medium of flesh and spirit. The Spirit is the shadowy thing that goes back to God when the flesh has had it's run.
regarding Genesis 3;19 please could you tell me what your bible says in this scripture as i have looked in the KJV and it says the same meaning as the NWT, so what bible are you looking at as i like to compare.
Unfortunately, I only have access to an NIV at this time. I will bring a KJV tomorrow.
i also believe that the resurrection hope is a major belief in the bible , but the hope of the resurrection has been lost and mixed in with Greek teaching about a seperate spirit or shadowy thing inside of us , but the hebrew scriptures did not have this belief about something inside us , but only the hope of a real resurrection as flesh and blood
The whole New Testament is Greek teaching. Do you discount that as well?
The resurrection does not harmonize with the idea that humans have an immortal soul—a view held by the Greek philosopher Plato and not a bible teaching.
...but the basic teaching of the resurrection was always the resurrection into a paradise earth, man was made for the earth thats why Jehovah created the earth it was for man to live on
Earth is a physical realm. God set this up to run its course, however long that is. Because God has set it up to operate in a particular way, I assume that God will not defy his own laws. God has set man up to operate independantly so in that I believe that 'evil' always has the possibly to exist (of course that depends on what you view as evil as well). For evil to be done away with, God would have to destroy the earth, those functions of the earth that He created in the 6 days that Genesis describes, and mankind as well. For God to reestablish mankind in the flesh would be a set up for the original sin scenario again. For us to be 100% obedient to the will of God for certainty, for eternity, it couldn't be in the physical realm. God has tried that. It doesn't work. Sounds like a spiritual resurrection to me.

of coarse Jehovah God can resurrect us as a spirit body like himself as he will do for the limited number of 144,000
What?
 
The 12,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel (equaling 144,000) as mentioned in Rev. 7:4-8 and 14:1-3 does not state that they will be the only ones that will enter Heaven.

After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. (Rev 7:9)

the 144,000 will be saved as well as a great multitude of those that believe that jesus is the son of god and our personal saviour.

If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame." For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile – the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved" (Rom. 10:9-13).



 
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