Halloween and All Saints Day

[Bandit]

what are your perspectives on Halloween?
How is All Saints Day celebrated?

This is early, but i guess by then we should have a lot of views on the subject.

I have done a little research on the origins of Halloween, but I know nothing about All Saints Day except for the Encyclopedia. I thought this would be a good comparative study because both holidays fall back to back with each other.

I grew up carving pumpkins, wearing a costume. Trick or treat was the best thing next to Christmas. The only time we did not go trick or treating was if it landed on a church night & the service would preside the Holiday. My church stood neutral on it & let the parents use there own discretion. There was always a fall outing with a bon fire & hay ride, though costumes, candy & the Halloween Holiday was not a part of the outing.

How is Halloween different today than 30 years ago? 200 years ago?
Everyone welcome to share thoughts, feelings and research on Halloween & All Saints Day. Take the poll if you want to.
I Hope this will be a fun & informative topic. Thank You.

 

[_Z_]

Ah the Halloween thread!

My family love Halloween or samhain/samhuinn [Celtic], we treat it like Christmas, have parties dress up carve the pumpkin n all that stuff. Sometimes we go up on the Ridgeway at night, [the older ones, friends etc.] to the white horse hill – it has a strange feeling up there as there was a Celtic fort and I feel like many people were slaughtered there. Comb hill near Inkpen Berkshire is much more spooky, people were hung there years ago, the gibbet is still there & at Halloween locals think it funny to hang mock corpses from it. There is also the mysterious dewpond where two babies were said to have drowned, but if you look for it you wont find it, yet sometimes it appears in the fog. Great views there, you got to go somewhere spooky on Halloween eh!



Darkness and dread!



Z

 

[Bandit]

yah. it can be a spooky holiday & i am for practical jokes that dont cause harm & have a good intent, though some kind of go overboard.i admit i did the T.P. thing once & I have been TP'd. I have gone to an old abandoned cemetary once with a group & we got our pants scared off of us. I wont forget that & they remember it well also.

 

[Bandit]

here is some of what i got to share. so until some others jump in with Z & myself, full pledged to straighten me out, i will just keep preaching my little halloween/saints day thread.
Halloween the Scottish Gaelis Dictionary defines it as "Hallowtide. The Feast of All Soula. Sam + Fuin = end of summer.

Behind the name... Halloween, or the Hallow E'en as they call it in Ireland , means All Hallows Eve, or the night before the 'All Hallows', also called 'All Hallowmas', or 'All Saints', or 'All Souls' Day, observed on November 1. In old English the word 'Hallow' meant 'sanctify'. Roman Catholics, Episcopalians and Lutherians used to observe All Hallows Day to honor all Saints in heaven, known or unknown. They used to consider it with all solemnity as one of the most significant observances of the Church year.... And Catholics, all and sundry, was obliged to attend Mass. The Romans observed the holiday of Feralia, intended to give rest and peace to the departed. Participants made sacrifices in honor of the dead, offered up prayers for them, and made oblations to them. The festival was celebrated on February 21, the end of the Roman year. In the 7th century, Pope Boniface IV introduced All Saints' Day to replace the pagan festival of the dead... It was observed on May 13. Later, Gregory III changed the date to November 1. The Greek Orthodox Church observes it on the first Sunday after Pentecost.

Contrary to the information published by many organizations, there is no archaeological or literary evidence to indicate that Samhain was a deity. The Celtic Gods of the dead were Gwynn ap Nudd for the British, and Arawn for the Welsh. The Irish did not have a "lord of death" as such. Thus most of the customs connected with the Day are remnants of the ancient religious beliefs and rituals, first of the Druids and then transcended amongst the Roman Christians who conquered them.

Despite this connection with the Roman Church, the American version of Halloween Day celebration owes its origin to the ancient (pre-Christian) Druidic fire festival called "Samhain", celebrated by the Celts in Scotland, Wales and Ireland. Samhain is pronounced "sow-in", with "sow" rhyming with cow. In Ireland the festival was known as Samhein, or La Samon, the Feast of the Sun.

The festival of All Saints, also sometimes known as "All Hallows," or "Hallowmas," is a feast celebrated in their honour. All Saints is also a Christian formula invoking all the faithful saints and martyrs, known or unknown.

The Roman Catholic holiday (Festum omnium sanctorum) falls on November 1, followed by All Souls' Day on November 2, and is a festival of the first rank, with a vigil and an octave. The Eastern Orthodox Church's All Saints is the first Sunday after Pentecost and as such marks the close of the Easter season.

it seems to be observed differently depending on the religion & location.?.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Saints_Day

 

[Awaiting_the_fifth]

My Birthday is on Halloween.

If my parents had had a sense of humour they would have called me Damien.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

I agree with you, Bandit, as a kid I thought Halloween was the next best thing to Christmas...especially since at my school we always had a Halloween party - everyone wore their costumes to class, including the teachers, and brought candy to share, and there were no lessons. In my memory it always rained hard on Halloween, so we didn't go outside for recess - twenty-five kids cooped up in a classroom for six hours, hopped up on candy - I remember lots of climbing on desks and candy being hurtled across the room. Our poor teachers...

These days I'm a wiccan, so I celebrate Samhain rather differently than _Z_ described. To me it's the new year, the beginning of the winter sleep to gather energy for the new life of spring. It's also a time when I remember those close to me who have died.

I know some wiccans object to Halloween as it is commonly celebrated, what with the ugly old witches and all, and there have even been cases where wiccan parents have complained about Halloween decorations at school. I have no patience with these people. It's part of the culture at large and it won't go away and it doesn't have to take away from what the holiday means to you. Use it as a starting point for a conversation with your children about your family's beliefs. Actually, I'd say the same to Christian parents with complaints. I was raised Christian, and my mom was always very good about explaining the difference between the holiday decorations at school and what a given holiday meant to us.

As far as how we celebrated All Saints' Day, since we were Lutheran we didn't have saints as such, but the word "saint" refers to all believers. So at the All Saint's Day service we honored Christians who had died (martyrs, people of historical import, and those close to us). Huh - guess I'm not as far from my roots as I sometimes think.

 

[Bandit]

I agree with you, Bandit, as a kid I thought Halloween was the next best thing to Christmas...especially since at my school we always had a Halloween party - everyone wore their costumes to class, including the teachers, and brought candy to share, and there were no lessons. In my memory it always rained hard on Halloween, so we didn't go outside for recess - twenty-five kids cooped up in a classroom for six hours, hopped up on candy - I remember lots of climbing on desks and candy being hurtled across the room. Our poor teachers...

These days I'm a wiccan, so I celebrate Samhain rather differently than _Z_ described. To me it's the new year, the beginning of the winter sleep to gather energy for the new life of spring. It's also a time when I remember those close to me who have died.

I know some wiccans object to Halloween as it is commonly celebrated, what with the ugly old witches and all, and there have even been cases where wiccan parents have complained about Halloween decorations at school. I have no patience with these people. It's part of the culture at large and it won't go away and it doesn't have to take away from what the holiday means to you. Use it as a starting point for a conversation with your children about your family's beliefs. Actually, I'd say the same to Christian parents with complaints. I was raised Christian, and my mom was always very good about explaining the difference between the holiday decorations at school and what a given holiday meant to us.

As far as how we celebrated All Saints' Day, since we were Lutheran we didn't have saints as such, but the word "saint" refers to all believers. So at the All Saint's Day service we honored Christians who had died (martyrs, people of historical import, and those close to us). Huh - guess I'm not as far from my roots as I sometimes think.

I remember it always rained on Halloween & could get really cold, but it never stopped us from trick or treating. You guys really had it all out for Halloween at school. I remember everyone doing a parade showing off the costume & that party did last for most of the day it seems. All the teachers went into a costume & that was really nice. It is part of a culture & though it may change in some ways how it is celebrated, it is not just going to go away.
There always seemed to be the scary skelaton side & then there was the happy side with a pumpkin face.

it really was the next best thing to Christmas Scarlet Pimpernel. the school party was just the kick off for a night of getting to run wild, door to door & get the biggest bag of candy. Big groups of kids knocking on every house door, yelling TRICK OR TREAT. We would go until 10 or 11 PM & it was permitted back then. The candy one child would get seemed to be enough to last until Easter!!


See, i got it all the same way from my parents, an understanding of what a holiday was at school & what it was to be from a religious perspective. We never had all saints day though & i never even heard of it until many years later & I never realized how the two seem to be tied together & i think there are some joining roots there.
Thanks for bringing back some great memories.

 

[Bandit]

My Birthday is on Halloween.

If my parents had had a sense of humour they would have called me Damien.

yah. Damien is popular. You get to be anyone you want to be on that day.

 

[path_of_one]

I like Halloween; it's fun and I always loved dressing up and trick-or-treating as a kid. I still like it as a holiday.

Now, I also celebrate it a bit as Scarlet described. It's the New Year, a symbol of death and rebirth to me, and a time to honor one's loved ones who have died and ancestors. Basically, it's a holiday that reminds me of the interconnectedness of death and life, and the ever-constant cycle of regeneration. I do my own little prayer ceremony to honor the changing of the seasons, the coming sleep of the earth leading to rebirth, and my loved ones who have passed on. (I still like to go to a good party though too!)

My general understanding of Wicca and Druidry is that many in both "camps" also believe it is one of the days in which the veil is thinner than usual as well...

 

[Faithfulservant]

I love Halloween.. Im a big kid at heart.. I love the dressing up and decorating and passing kids candy.. I love the spooky part of it.. I love carving pumpkins and eating roasted pumpkin seeds.. watching scary movies. I love the smell of autumn and the bite in the air and it all brings back so many good memories of when I was a kid.. My Dads bday was on Halloween and I celebrate it just like we always celebrated it when I was a kid.. with every intent on enjoying the holiday.. having fun.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Basically, it's a holiday that reminds me of the interconnectedness of death and life, and the ever-constant cycle of regeneration.

Excellently put.

My general understanding of Wicca and Druidry is that many in both "camps" also believe it is one of the days in which the veil is thinner than usual as well...

Yes, hence the ghosts in the decorations. Among other things it means it's a great night to do past-life regressions, if you're into that sort of thing. If I do a regression on Halloween what I see is always very vivid and very unexpected.

 

[_Z_]

Scarlet pimpernel, hello.

Sounds like wiccans need to gain a sense of humour! I also celebrate it on a deeper level btw interesting post though.



Po1,

I agree [generally].



Bandit,

Like the definition!

 

[Bandit]

Sounds like wiccans need to gain a sense of humour! I also celebrate it on a deeper level btw interesting post though.



Po1,

I agree [generally].



Bandit,

Like the definition!

i never celebrated it on a deeper level. never even thought of it that way until now.

so Z, are you ready for a good spook? i know i am.
actually i enjoy doing the spooking better. must have the element of suprize timed out perfectly. (or have a good ghost story on hand)

 

[17th Angel]

The majority of the people understand not, what Halloween really represents yet follows the people of TV world and Merchandise and just have wool pulled over their eyes....


It all comes from Beltane and Samhaine... which were two festivals by the celts... Beltane on 1st May and Samhaine on the 1st November, Beltane and Samhaine represent Light and Dark. AND NO! Not in some good and evil way... Just the seasons, summer and winter. Beltane - summer, Samehaine - end of summer.. Some where along the way Samhaine moved to november eve (october 31st) and became halloween. Yeah nothing ghostly and evil or scary... just winter is all.... 0O0O0O SPOOKY!!! ... heh please,

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

As far as I know, Samhain never "moved" to October 31 - I'm neither an anthropologist nor a historian, but I believe that in the ancient celtic calendar, days began at sundown, as I think they also do in Judaism. The day begins with rest, to gather energy. Which is why Samhain is considered the wiccan New Year. And as I said earlier, the ghosts show up in the decorations because the boundary between life and death is supposed to be at its thinnest then. But that's also the reason for the evil-spooky idea: the thin boundary can be crossed by harmful spirits as well as beneficial ones. Supposedly that's why the idea of masks and costumes showed up - you didn't want your dead enemies to be able to recognize you.

(Most of my ideas about Halloween/Samhain come from wiccan sources, and I KNOW how historically (in)accurate they usually are, so if anyone more qualified has a better explanation, I am happy to be put in my place).

 

[Bandit]

As far as I know, Samhain never "moved" to October 31 - I'm neither an anthropologist nor a historian, but I believe that in the ancient celtic calendar, days began at sundown, as I think they also do in Judaism. The day begins with rest, to gather energy. Which is why Samhain is considered the wiccan New Year. And as I said earlier, the ghosts show up in the decorations because the boundary between life and death is supposed to be at its thinnest then. But that's also the reason for the evil-spooky idea: the thin boundary can be crossed by harmful spirits as well as beneficial ones. Supposedly that's why the idea of masks and costumes showed up - you didn't want your dead enemies to be able to recognize you.

(Most of my ideas about Halloween/Samhain come from wiccan sources, and I KNOW how historically (in)accurate they usually are, so if anyone more qualified has a better explanation, I am happy to be put in my place).

the part i still dont get is why it became classified as a christian holiday. or are they just suggesting that all saints day is the christian holiday & not halloween?
both holidays seem to be saying the same basic thing.
I HAVE HEARD, that some literally go to a cemetary to meet the spirit of a past loved one during the 31st & 1st & even heard where some may stay there until sun up. (i dont know anyone who has done that but have heard of it.)
i grew up never considering much of a religious theme about it or even thinking twice about it being christian.

 

[Bandit]

The majority of the people understand not, what Halloween really represents yet follows the people of TV world and Merchandise and just have wool pulled over their eyes....


It all comes from Beltane and Samhaine... which were two festivals by the celts... Beltane on 1st May and Samhaine on the 1st November, Beltane and Samhaine represent Light and Dark. AND NO! Not in some good and evil way... Just the seasons, summer and winter. Beltane - summer, Samehaine - end of summer.. Some where along the way Samhaine moved to november eve (october 31st) and became halloween. Yeah nothing ghostly and evil or scary... just winter is all.... 0O0O0O SPOOKY!!! ... heh please,

i admit i dont fully understand it. but i also must admit that i have been spooked quite a few times. (mostly on purpose). and i have also spooked quite of few people over the years by the element of suprise & stories.
one thing for sure- never spook someone who is in a bad mood or had a bad day OR can get scared real easy. they can get real angry.
like grouchy people.

 

[_Z_]

Hello bandit.

I still don’t get is why it became classified as a Christian holiday

Because those god damned Christians stole our pagan festivals so as to get the country folk [pagans] into their religion, in much the same way as many churches are built on the sites of pagan temples.

 

[Bandit]

Hello bandit.







Because those god damned Christians stole our pagan festivals so as to get the country folk [pagans] into their religion, in much the same way as many churches are built on the sites of pagan temples.

Hello Z

so that is true & there was a mix of culture & all. but i guess my point is, i dont see anything that remotely qualifies for such a holiday in the bible, (OT or NT) much less make it to the calendar.
from what i know, Australia does not even celebrate Halloween.

hey- you never answered my other question. are you ready for a good scare?

i need some ideas this year. something different

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

I HAVE HEARD, that some literally go to a cemetary to meet the spirit of a past loved one during the 31st & 1st & even heard where some may stay there until sun up. (i dont know anyone who has done that but have heard of it.)

Yeah, it's a big holiday in Mexico - Dia de los Muertos (sp?), which means Day of the Dead, and it's a day of celebration for the whole family. Seriously - though I'm not sure if the joyousness stems from the idea that you get to be around your lost loved ones again for a day, or if people celebrate the fact that their relatives are no longer suffering on earth but have reached heaven, or if they're looking forward to the day when they will join their relatives in heaven.

"Halloween" is just a shortening of "All Hallows' Eve", "hallow" in this case meaning the same as "saint". You know, like Christmas Eve is the evening before Christmas Day - All Hallows' Eve is the evening before All Saints' Day.

The Church authorities probably chose Samhain because it was already a day to remember lost loved ones, but as far as I know the justification for the holiday in the first place was that there was a need for a "catch-all" saint's day to honor all the saints who didn't have their own holy day in the Church calendar. I have no idea if it is celebrated in areas where the Orthodox church is influential, or if it's purely a Roman thing.

As for your objection that there's no reference to it in the bible, that's certainly true, but then there's no reference to saints either, is there? Or any of the holidays based on saints such as St. Valentines Day, St. Nicholas' Day, St. John the Baptist, Assumption of Mary, Three Kings Day....

The thing is, the Catholic Church has always considered Church tradition to be as important a source of revelation, or nearly so, as the bible.