No offense taken, nice to meet you Z!_Z_ said:Awaiting the fifth, hi.
I know where you are coming from. but its a bit of a one way system.
It depends how you see liberation and god! Nirvana can be seen as the place and god as the being [a christianised perspective], two views of the one existence, so reaching nirvana is not necessarily above god. Gods creation [us] emanates from within him, so if Jesus is a perfect example of god as a human form, then he shows us the way back home.
I have heard a Christian argument, that meditation is not so harmless in some cases, as one visualises idols [deities] & these have an affect on your soul that is impure [some say even so with Jesus!], so why not meditate upon god only? - just something what i have come across!
I am saying this to show that we can learn from each other! I should hate Christians for their persecution of my kind [9 million across Europe], but i dont. There are many views of the truth. The debate should never end and we should never consider our beliefs as above others – it is easy to do this with a little clever wording.
I hope you don’t take all this the wrong way my friend, I did not intend to insult your religion or way of being!
stevemb88 said:I have never heard of a mass killing of Buddhists, by Christians, although I don't doubt it happened, it might have well happened but you shouldn't hate Christians, first of all because HATE is an extremely strong word and that it happened neither here nor now.
_Z_ said:Nirvana can be seen as the place and god as the being [a christianised perspective], two views of the one existence, so reaching nirvana is not necessarily above god. Gods creation [us] emanates from within him, so if Jesus is a perfect example of god as a human form, then he shows us the way back home.
_Z_ said:I have heard a Christian argument, that meditation is not so harmless in some cases, as one visualises idols [deities] & these have an affect on your soul that is impure [some say even so with Jesus!], so why not meditate upon god only? - just something what i have come across!
There is truth in that the West seems to have a constant craving for novelty and innovation. In fact, it might have played a part in my looking into Christianity in my adult life.Thomas said:First question: Why would you want to?
Is there a sense of something 'missing' from the Christian Tradition? As Earl said, and to me its a huge point, Christianity is the ONLY tradition that seems to look elsewhere for validation - I suggest the fault is not with Christianity but with the west, with its constant craving for novelty and innovation.
My husband and my non-Christian friends do, and many excellent conversations have ensued, but that is only my experience, and cannot be considered to be a large enough sample to constitute a reliable trend.You would never find a Buddhist (or any other) asking if there is something to be had from Christianity.
I would have to agree with you there.And again, whereas 'meditation' and the fruit thereof might be the 'goal' of Buddhist practice, it is a stepping stone towards higher states in Christian prayer, ie contemplation.
I would have to strongly agree on this point, and it cannot be overemphasized, IMHO. One might compare it to going into your computer's basic operating system and redirecting vital functions, or rewriting lines of code without knowing what you're doing. To do so would be taking at least a 75% chance of ending up with an unstable operating system, IMHO. That said, however, I don't feel that it is necessary that I drop the Zen that I acquired before I became a Christian.There is simple meditation, and there are psychodynamic methods which have profound psychic effects, and unmoderated are fundamentally dangerous. A non-negotiable rule of the latter is that they should NEVER been undertaken without proper supervision - the techniques are very real and not without danger.
In short - consider the Greek myth of Pandora's Box. Our asylums are full of those who, by (mostly) accident and (the occasional rarity of) design, lifted the lid and found themselves unable to replace it. There is no place more dangerous than the depths of one's own psyche, and no place in heaven or earth more dangerous to travel alone.
While I do agree with your basic principle, I have only noticed the East-West practice mixing within the "New Age" movement around here, and you can't get much further west than Seattle. There are Christians who have converted from Eastern religions, and there are those who have converted from Christianity to Eastern religions, but I haven't seen hybrids outside of the New Age movement.There is a basic and fundamental difference between Buddhism and Christianity, which colours everything, and this is the place of the person in the schemata, a point I have made many times across this board (and one which has never been seriously challenged).
In short, spokespersons of either camp who think they can mix the two simply do not comprehend the metaphysic of their own system, and sadly in the West (and the further west you go, the worse it gets) a large number of clergy are included in this, who demonstrate a staggering ignorance of the depths of Christian theology as they trample over the subtle beauty of their own tradition to plunder the treasures of another.
I'm going to have to disagree with you there on the meditation, I meditate and focus solely on my breathing and God and i have never seen idols.
_Z_ said:Buddhists and hindus tend to think they are above Christians – like when they consider Christ as a bodhisattva.
_Z_ said:nirvana is a place if you go there! Well if it is the same as the druidic void or the source
_Z_ said:Ps. To everyone; I don’t see why Buddhists can’t learn from Christians! That sounds as arrogant as Christians were in the past! We can all learn from one another!
_Z_ said:perhaps we can debate ultimate nature on another thread? [I’ll do one soon]
There is a basic and fundamental difference between Buddhism and Christianity, which colours everything, and this is the place of the person in the schemata, a point I have made many times across this board (and one which has never been seriously challenged).