Equal Gender Government

[Silverbackman]

This probably would never occur because both sides of the political spectrum might go against it, but what do you think of a government run by members of each sex equally? In other words half of Congress must be men, and half of congress must be women, no exceptions. That way both men and woman will get equal representation. Some goes for the Supreme Court, equal number of men and woman serving as judges.

It would also work for the executive branch as well. What do you think of two presidents; one man and one woman? That way both genders would get equal voice in government policies.

Of course as I said earlier this type of government would never pass on both sides of the political spectrum. Liberals (especially feminists) would hate the idea because in there mind there is no difference between men and women (even though there obviously are many many differences between the two sexes). Conservatives may not care as much but they too will want the government to stay and absolute patriarch.

What do you think?

 

[At_the_Wellspring]

Hi again Silverbackman!


See you're still on the issue of gender, and still have a thing against blaring feminists

Will just add my two cents quickly:

I would be fine with it, except that it couldn't /shouldn't be forced equality in numbers. This wouldn't work. If congress/ parliament happened to be 50/50, great it shows that the best people at the job are equally men and women. But don't think it should be enforced.

Should be the best people at the job, not enforced by gender, though I think women are an essential part of government - Any government should have a wide representation of gender and race and beliefs and views, so that includes women.

Cheers

 

[Silverbackman]

Hi again Silverbackman!


See you're still on the issue of gender, and still have a thing against blaring feminists

Will just add my two cents quickly:

I would be fine with it, except that it couldn't /shouldn't be forced equality in numbers. This wouldn't work. If congress/ parliament happened to be 50/50, great it shows that the best people at the job are equally men and women. But don't think it should be enforced.

Should be the best people at the job, not enforced by gender, though I think women are an essential part of government - Any government should have a wide representation of gender and race and beliefs and views, so that includes women.

Cheers

Well I don't see the wrong in enforcing it. All though I'm a libertarian on many issues when it comes to the government there needs to be structure. If we do make a law about equal rep with both genders within the government it will be so, and everything would be more in harmony. In fact it should be an essential part of the government.

Race on the other hand isn't an issue, it really doesn't matter what race is in the government. Keep in mind there are no differences other than superficial features between the races. So there is no need for a law on equal race.

Men and women however are created different, so there needs to be a voice to the different ways of thinking and ruling.

 

[At_the_Wellspring]

I would have to disagree slightly. i think its important to have all different types of people in governance because everyone sees the world through different eyes. Part of this view on the world is influenced by race and cultural background. I'm not advocating racism or people being treated differently because of race at all - I am merely acknowledging that there is difference and that this difference should be shared. I'm not saying there is any difference in competence at the job or intelligence, I am just saying that different racial minorities may relate better to the issues facing their cultural group, and because of different cultural backgrounds and life experiences people may approach problems differently and have alternative solutions to offer.


In the same way, women have no less competence at the job, though they may view the world from a different perspective from men. Again, this may mean they relate better to issues facing women (+children), and they may approach problems differently and have alternative solutions to offer.

 

[Silverbackman]

I would have to disagree slightly. i think its important to have all different types of people in governance because everyone sees the world through different eyes. Part of this view on the world is influenced by race and cultural background. I'm not advocating racism or people being treated differently because of race at all - I am merely acknowledging that there is difference and that this difference should be shared. I'm not saying there is any difference in competence at the job or intelligence, I am just saying that different racial minorities may relate better to the issues facing their cultural group, and because of different cultural backgrounds and life experiences people may approach problems differently and have alternative solutions to offer.


In the same way, women have no less competence at the job, though they may view the world from a different perspective from men. Again, this may mean they relate better to issues facing women (+children), and they may approach problems differently and have alternative solutions to offer.

I somewhat disagree. I live in the United States and my ethinic backround (East India) is probably considred a minority. But think like anyone else who has been brought up in America. My point of views are shared both by white and black community, as well as the oriental community. So it really doesn't matter about race, at least in my opinion. Race is nothing more than a division between a species. Meaning all humans think the same and have the same abilities.

Men and women on the other hand are very different both physically and mentally, so it would be ideal to have a government with equal voice for two different type of people (man and woman in this case).

 

[At_the_Wellspring]

Just wondering then - what would happen if the US government was entirely white males? What if it was 50/50 men/women but still all white?

I'm not familiar with the US congress, so I'm unsure of its ethnic makeup. I'm not saying minorities should be 'treated specially' or anything like that, but if, in a multi-cultural place there was no representation of any other race, I would start to wonder if there was some particular reason - I would find it strange, because I know that all races are just as intelligent and capable - so maybe there is some discrimination issue or something else that means there is no ethnic representation at all. And I know it would fluctuate in numbers etc over time. I'm just saying in a place where all races are completely equal, there would inevitably be some diversity in government.

And I guess I don't see why you are treating women so differently. I don't think women are so wildly different in their thinking that you would class them apart from the men so distinctly. In saying that you should enforce equal representation in governance implies that you do not think that women are capable of being there in the same realm of men in the first place, out of their own intelligence and capability. Enforcing a quota like that also means that women (or men) who are less capable may end up in congress ahead of someone of the opposite sex who is more capable. The numbers should naturally fluctuate. Sometimes there will be very few women, or sometimes there will be a greater number of women.

Here in New Zealand, as I have mentioned before, we have had no trouble in electing women into government, and into positions of power. As I have mentioned before our Prime Minister for the last 8 years has been a woman, and our current PM has been re-elected, with her co-leader also being a woman. I'm not saying we will or should be governed by women forever - it actually doesn't matter - it will simply fluctuate and change with the times and with whoever comes out to be the better leader. Not defined by gender or race.

My understanding from reading your posts, seems to be that you have a belief that men and women are so wildly apart that they cannot possible work within the same sphere. To me, it seems, you don't believe that women are as capable in roles of leadership (because that is of course a male trait that women could not possibly possess...).

Therefore when it comes to something like governance of a country (a 'male' role of leadership) in order to have fair representation the stronger dominant male must make allowances for the weaker (but still important) women. I think that is rubbish, personally. Women are just as capable, perhaps bringing different aspects to leadership and solving solutions in different ways, but still just as capable. In a truly equal society, women would be elected into government inevitably. We shouldn't even be needing to have this discussion.

 

[Silverbackman]

Just wondering then - what would happen if the US government was entirely white males? What if it was 50/50 men/women but still all white?

I'm not familiar with the US congress, so I'm unsure of its ethnic makeup. I'm not saying minorities should be 'treated specially' or anything like that, but if, in a multi-cultural place there was no representation of any other race, I would start to wonder if there was some particular reason - I would find it strange, because I know that all races are just as intelligent and capable - so maybe there is some discrimination issue or something else that means there is no ethnic representation at all. And I know it would fluctuate in numbers etc over time. I'm just saying in a place where all races are completely equal, there would inevitably be some diversity in government.

And I guess I don't see why you are treating women so differently. I don't think women are so wildly different in their thinking that you would class them apart from the men so distinctly. In saying that you should enforce equal representation in governance implies that you do not think that women are capable of being there in the same realm of men in the first place, out of their own intelligence and capability. Enforcing a quota like that also means that women (or men) who are less capable may end up in congress ahead of someone of the opposite sex who is more capable. The numbers should naturally fluctuate. Sometimes there will be very few women, or sometimes there will be a greater number of women.

Here in New Zealand, as I have mentioned before, we have had no trouble in electing women into government, and into positions of power. As I have mentioned before our Prime Minister for the last 8 years has been a woman, and our current PM has been re-elected, with her co-leader also being a woman. I'm not saying we will or should be governed by women forever - it actually doesn't matter - it will simply fluctuate and change with the times and with whoever comes out to be the better leader. Not defined by gender or race.

My understanding from reading your posts, seems to be that you have a belief that men and women are so wildly apart that they cannot possible work within the same sphere. To me, it seems, you don't believe that women are as capable in roles of leadership (because that is of course a male trait that women could not possibly possess...).

Therefore when it comes to something like governance of a country (a 'male' role of leadership) in order to have fair representation the stronger dominant male must make allowances for the weaker (but still important) women. I think that is rubbish, personally. Women are just as capable, perhaps bringing different aspects to leadership and solving solutions in different ways, but still just as capable. In a truly equal society, women would be elected into government inevitably. We shouldn't even be needing to have this discussion.

No, when a particular group of people come to another country to live they basicly adopt the country they move into. I was born and brought up in USA, not India. So my culture is the same as anyone elses in America regardless of race.

In my opinion it is illogcal to say each race has their own culture. People migrate to my country from majority white countries but that doesn't mean just because there white means they have the same culture as whites all over the world. Again this has nothing to do with race, once a man, whether black, white, oriental, indian, ect. come to another country they adopt their language and their cultures first, then their ethnic country second.

For example black people have been living here for over 300 years! There culture can't be different from our own unless your implying that because they are another race they will develop a different culture. That is hogwash, all races are not only equal, they are the exact same in every way. So whether you are a white man or a black man living in America, you are still an American. Race means nothing, and to suggest otherwise is racist.

Men and women on the other hand are different from each other, but I never said completly different. My point is that because men and women are different enough that there needs to be equal representation on both sides.

Where the hell did I say women are not capable for leadership roles? Your starting to sound like a feminist. What is the title of this thread? "Equal Gender Government". How can I say that woman cannot be leaders when I'm suggesting that women should have equal participation in government posistions. I still don't see how that has to do with women not being able to rule when in fact I'm saying women SHOULD rule. I don't understand you.

Your last paragraph makes no sense at all. This has nothing to do on what gender is stronger, I don't know where you are pulling this stuff from. I am saying in order to guarantee that men do not get too much power over women or vice versa government-wise, this idea of making sure there are an equal number of representation of each gender is what it is for.

 

[At_the_Wellspring]

Sorry that last post wasn't particularly well written, and I probably wasn't understanding you properly either... I was in a rush at the time


I agree with you that all races are the same, all equal, totally, so I agree with you there

At the same time I believe that we are all complex human beings, and that every individual sees the world through their own unique eyes. This has a lot to do with personality and personal character, but it also has to do with other influences... our parents' viewpoint (whether we agree/ react against this), the economic situation we are in, the types of people we hang out with/ work with, the area of the world we live in and how it is governed, our religious upbringing, our exposure to education, our interests... blah blah blah the list could go on and on and on. All I'm saying is that our race has some influence, as do a million other things, as to our experience of the world, and to varying degrees, its just part of the big complex puzzle that makes us each unique.

So in one sense I believe yes we are all the same, but at the same time we are all different and unique. Thats what I love about our world is its complexity.


Sorry I do understand now that you are 'for' women being in power. I was just reacting to the idea of there being a 'special quota' as such to ensure that women are equally represented in what has been historically a male-dominated profession.

Here in New Zealand we have 'quotas' for Maori and Pacific island students to, for example enter university. This is because they are under-represented in some professions such as medicine and teaching. Fewer go to university and into these professions than their percentage of the population. This is not at all because they are less capable or intelligent. It is probably in part, because of the averagely lower-socio-economic position that they find themselves in. This can be linked back to past injustices and the simple fact of a native culture having to adapt into a dominating colonising culture. The Maori cultural approach to all professions etc is recognised as important as they relate to Maori health issues and cultural etiquette better, and they have greater sensitivity to land ownership and respect etc. So, in order to encourage more Maori students into specific professions where culture is particularly important, such as education and medicine, there are 'quotas' meaning slightly lower entry requirements and more funding.

Anyway, the point of this, is just that in my view, sometimes quotas are necessary to balance inequalities, but they are by no means the end or ideal solution. Hopefully in a few years we will no longer need lower entry requirements to encourage Maori into these professions, as there should naturally be some representation without these quotas.

So I see the gender issue in the same way. By enforcing an equal number, will mean that people are entering government because of their gender not because of their ability at the job. So, like I said, some entering would be of lesser ability than others, but got in because of their gender. This is ok if it is recognised that there are historical inequalities that need to be equalised, and this can only be done with some extra assistance such as enforced equilibrium. But it is only ok for a time. As I say, when a society is completely equal, there will be no need to enforce equilibrium. If everyone has equal choice and ability to enter the job without hindrance from prejudice or discrimination, then there will inevitably be some representation, whether or not that is completely representative of their population percentage or not. Numbers will then fluctuate depending on what candidates are more capable whether that means male or female.


Anyway, I hope you understand where I am coming from. I don't have much more to add. Except that I would say perhaps we have a basic difference in viewpoint when it comes to the differences between people. I see gender as part of the complex puzzle. Like you said, whatever race we are, we are all the same. Maybe our belief is different in that at a fundamental level I believe we (men and women) are all the same. I believe its just a part of the complexity as race and religion are, rather than seeing it as such a division.


Anyway, don't have more to add. I guess in some ways we will have to agree to disagree and hopefully others have stuff to add too...

 

[iBrian]

This probably would never occur because both sides of the political spectrum might go against it, but what do you think of a government run by members of each sex equally?

On the issue of ability, no other reason - positive discrimination can be damaging, just as negative discrimination can be, IMO.

 

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Silverbackman!

Some goes for the Supreme Court, equal number of men and woman serving as judges.

How would one break a deadlock?

The Supreme Court has an odd number of Judges so that one view *will* override an opposing view. Needless to say, having an even number of judges (two sexes) would set the Court up for impossible and impassible deadlock.

The US Government has an extreme number of checks and balances built in. Which is why it takes so long for our government in particular to move forward on any given issue. In short, I think the best "person" for the job is the only necessary pre-requisite. Requiring a double government would take an already obese system and turn it into an impossible monster. In short, I do not think your idea would work, nor is it even necessary.

My two cents.

 

[I am free]

Hey all, what about the hermaphrodites, the transsexuals, the transgendered, the transvestites, the effiminate men, the masculine women and everybody else between 'man' and woman'...?

 

[Bandit]

Hey all, what about the hermaphrodites, the transsexuals, the transgendered, the transvestites, the effiminate men, the masculine women and everybody else between 'man' and woman'...?

& the ones who are not sure. a government for each?

 

[seattlegal]

The Female of the Species by Rudyard Kipling

 

[Bandit]

The Female of the Species by Rudyard Kipling

you just want to rule over all the men.

That the Female of Her Species is more deadly than the Male.

 

[seattlegal]

you just want to rule over all the men.

That the Female of Her Species is more deadly than the Male.

Hmm, just how deadly do you want your government to be?

 

[Bandit]

Hmm, just how deadly do you want your government to be?

LOL
i saw part of an old movie where the women had complete rule & they had all the men locked up in cages.
i dont remember what it was called, i just remember part of it.
it was kind of scary.