Vajradhara
One of Many
Namaste all,
i'm going to open this post very shallowly and allow it to develop from there...
there are, as you are all probably aware, a great many people in the world today that have as their stated intention to "make it" to a western country with a social security system and live. legally or not.
i would like to propose that, in the interest of keeping on the topic, we refrain from legal immigration discussion and focus on the illegal type.
as many of the readers of this forum are British, i am interested to hear their opinion and take of the situation vis a vie immigration of illegals into England and the ramifications that it is having on their social system.
i don't know off hand, but if we have anyone from Norway that is a member, i would be especially interested to hear their opinion.
personally, i have some issues with illegal immigration that may or may not be shared by others. i have a little experience in this area due to nothing more than living in Texas, a state in America that has a great deal of illegal immigration.
my issues may be simplistically refined to thus:
illegal immigrants do not participate in the tax base.
illegal immigrants do utilize and consume healt care, emergency workers (police and fire), infrastructure (roads/bridges), all of which are funded by taxes.
in a very real sense, it's an issue of fairness. if you want to use, say the fire department to put out a fire in your home, that has to be paid for by somebody. as the illegal immigrant doesn't contribute to the local tax base, the extra calls that the fire dept answers depletes the available resources for the paying individuals, ultimately resulting in substandard service to both communities.
moreover, i fail to understand (i'm sure this is because i'm quite thick at times) why upon arrival at the shores of my nation, do all the rights of a citizen apply. the last time i checked, minor members of society do not have the same rights as adults (voting, for instance). even members of the society that are born in it do not have all the rights that an adult member of the society has. they are, however, both citizens of the society.
the illegal immigrant is not. they are not a member of society, if they were, they would not be illegal and would be contributing a fair share to the common good of all. moreover, they have not taken any oaths or vows that would lead one to believe that they have any intention of being a member of the society. why then, are they given full rights as if they were, in fact, members of the society?
please don't misconstrue what i'm trying to say, poorly perhaps. immigration is a "good" thing and has positive implications for everyone involved. illegal immigration seems, however, to insult those that did it by the rules... came to the country, studied the customs and language and passed the citizenship test. why on earth would you want to go through all of that if you could get exactly the same rights and services as a person that arrives illegally?
i'm going to open this post very shallowly and allow it to develop from there...
there are, as you are all probably aware, a great many people in the world today that have as their stated intention to "make it" to a western country with a social security system and live. legally or not.
i would like to propose that, in the interest of keeping on the topic, we refrain from legal immigration discussion and focus on the illegal type.
as many of the readers of this forum are British, i am interested to hear their opinion and take of the situation vis a vie immigration of illegals into England and the ramifications that it is having on their social system.
i don't know off hand, but if we have anyone from Norway that is a member, i would be especially interested to hear their opinion.
personally, i have some issues with illegal immigration that may or may not be shared by others. i have a little experience in this area due to nothing more than living in Texas, a state in America that has a great deal of illegal immigration.
my issues may be simplistically refined to thus:
illegal immigrants do not participate in the tax base.
illegal immigrants do utilize and consume healt care, emergency workers (police and fire), infrastructure (roads/bridges), all of which are funded by taxes.
in a very real sense, it's an issue of fairness. if you want to use, say the fire department to put out a fire in your home, that has to be paid for by somebody. as the illegal immigrant doesn't contribute to the local tax base, the extra calls that the fire dept answers depletes the available resources for the paying individuals, ultimately resulting in substandard service to both communities.
moreover, i fail to understand (i'm sure this is because i'm quite thick at times) why upon arrival at the shores of my nation, do all the rights of a citizen apply. the last time i checked, minor members of society do not have the same rights as adults (voting, for instance). even members of the society that are born in it do not have all the rights that an adult member of the society has. they are, however, both citizens of the society.
the illegal immigrant is not. they are not a member of society, if they were, they would not be illegal and would be contributing a fair share to the common good of all. moreover, they have not taken any oaths or vows that would lead one to believe that they have any intention of being a member of the society. why then, are they given full rights as if they were, in fact, members of the society?
please don't misconstrue what i'm trying to say, poorly perhaps. immigration is a "good" thing and has positive implications for everyone involved. illegal immigration seems, however, to insult those that did it by the rules... came to the country, studied the customs and language and passed the citizenship test. why on earth would you want to go through all of that if you could get exactly the same rights and services as a person that arrives illegally?