How much love is too much?

[Faithfulservant]

Ive been hearing all day that the conferance coming up in Tanzania the hot and not so hushed topic of excommunicating the Anglican church of Canada and the Episcopalian church of the US because of their liberal views on homosexuality.

Romans 12:2: Excommunication and the Episcopal Church

I now have hopes for that part of the body of Christ not becoming a certain church Christ spoke of in Revelation.

 

[lunamoth]

Ive been hearing all day that the conferance coming up in Tanzania the hot and not so hushed topic of excommunicating the Anglican church of Canada and the Episcopalian church of the US because of their liberal views on homosexuality.

Romans 12:2: Excommunication and the Episcopal Church

I now have hopes for that part of the body of Christ not becoming a certain church Christ spoke of in Revelation.

Hi Faithful,

You might want to know that that site is just polemics from a very conservative corner (actually it looks like one individual person) of the Anglican Communion.

If you'd like to have actual information, rather than rumors and ranting, you should check out:

The Episcopal Church

 

[Silas]

We should distance ourselves from all those who adhere to any other gospel than what we have recieved. As the Apostle Paul said..."let them be anathma (acursed!)."

 

[lunamoth]

And the Gospel is this: Fear not! For I am with you! The Kingdom of God is at hand! Love one another!

Hmmmm...nope, not seeing anything about homosexuals there.

But you all can have fun in this thread if you want. Personally I'd be happy to share a communion rail with you, but I don't need to hang around and read your condemnations of me or the Episcopal Church.

In His Peace,
Laurie

 

[Dor]

And the Gospel is this: Fear not! For I am with you! The Kingdom of God is at hand! Love one another!

Hmmmm...nope, not seeing anything about homosexuals there.

But you all can have fun in this thread if you want. Personally I'd be happy to share a communion rail with you, but I don't need to hang around and read your condemnations of me or the Episcopal Church.

In His Peace,
Laurie

Ok that quote does not mention it but surely you realize the bible has plenty of places it does.

 

[Silas]

And the Gospel is this: Fear not! For I am with you! The Kingdom of God is at hand! Love one another!

Hmmmm...nope, not seeing anything about homosexuals there.

But you all can have fun in this thread if you want. Personally I'd be happy to share a communion rail with you, but I don't need to hang around and read your condemnations of me or the Episcopal Church.

In His Peace,
Laurie

Was this to me? And if so, do you believe we should fellowship with those who are still in sin?

 

[earl]

I 'm saddened whenever I see Christians spend so much time deciding who's God going to love on behalf of God-usually the ones they pick for the presumed unloved category seem to coincide with the same folks they also personally dislike. I'm assuming that those who break Jesus' commandments are the ones considered to be sinning. So with that love thy neighbor standard for which we all fall short of perfect, guess if we're not to commune with sinners, we'd better not hang out with anyone including ourselves. While I don't like to cast stones at the stone-throwers, sometimes when I see the degree of non-Jesus-like behavior such as all this chatter about the "abominable homosexuals" & how it just reminds me of how it's this kind of absence of charitas that turns folks off to Christianity, I throw my 2 cents in. Gee, why is it with all the raping, murdering, really nasty human behavior out there some Christians waste all their time working up a fret about homosexuality? That weirdly seems to get more press among certain factions than the former. Go figure. On a positive note, thank you I, Brian for the "liberal" Christianity board. Ok done with my monthly preaching. may we all live out Jesus' message more fully. earl

 

[Silas]

I 'm saddened whenever I see Christians spend so much time deciding who's God going to love on behalf of God-usually the ones they pick for the presumed unloved category seem to coincide with the same folks they also personally dislike. I'm assuming that those who break Jesus' commandments are the ones considered to be sinning. So with that love thy neighbor standard for which we all fall short of perfect, guess if we're not to commune with sinners, we'd better not hang out with anyone including ourselves. While I don't like to cast stones at the stone-throwers, sometimes when I see the degree of non-Jesus-like behavior such as all this chatter about the "abominable homosexuals" & how it just reminds me of how it's this kind of absence of charitas that turns folks off to Christianity, I throw my 2 cents in. Gee, why is it with all the raping, murdering, really nasty human behavior out there some Christians waste all their time working up a fret about homosexuality? That weirdly seems to get more press among certain factions than the former. Go figure. On a positive note, thank you I, Brian for the "liberal" Christianity board. Ok done with my monthly preaching. may we all live out Jesus' message more fully. earl

Earl,

All sins, including homosexuality, is evil in God's sight. Do not suppose that God is loving people who continue in sin and choose sin over Him. Do not assume that God is bound or obligated to forgive a person just because they say that they are sorry. God has commanded men everywhere to repent and trust in Jesus. If people dont do that, Earl, they will suffer his wrath. The Sovereign of God the Universe has spoken through his word, you either believe it or dont. But please, dont be so condesending as to think that Jesus' love and yours is on the same plateau. Jesus, the God of the universe, loves righteousness and hates sin in all of its form. That said, God is also merciful! There is forgiveness for anyone who will foresake their sins and come to Christ. Dont think you can remain a sinner and be loved of God. That may work with some other god (especially the ones people create in their minds), but it will not with the true God - the God of the Bible.

Later,

Silas

 

[earl]

If you knew me in person it would come as no surprise to you that I'm quite a smart__s, but have avoided that temptation here until now Aside from the fact that to me sexual orientation is immaterial to anything, one of the the points I was trying to make was how odd it is to me the amount of time certain Christian factions spend decrying homosexuality compared to oh so many other human behaviors far more troubling. So my apologies for finally succumbing to my S.A. tendencies but if I were to create a top 10 most hated "sin" list in order of priority based on the amount of press its given among those factions, guess it would look like this:
1. homosexuality
2. homosexuality
3. homosexuality
4. homosexuality
5. etc.
6. etc.
7. etc.
8. murder
9. rape
10. general mayhem
God bless us all, earl

 

[taijasi]

We see one Master of the Wisdom, whom Christians have known twice in their Bibles (once in the Old Testament, and once in the New), telling us that, "the only real sin of the New Era is that of separativeness." And this works itself out in many ways, and rears its ugly head in all types of circumstances & situations.

The irony, it seems, is that it is so pronounced among religious-minded people, who should certainly know better! For example, I find that more often than not, even though I might have started to say (or post) something with the best of intentions ... if I am not careful, the very effort backfires, and suddenly I manage to create the opposite result! How frustrating!!!

I would have to say, that if the intention of several people at CR of late, has been to sow seeds of strife and discord, create division, and pretty well demonstrate the failings of Christianity (or at least, Churchianity) - and perhaps various other religions ... then Kudos!!! You've done marvelously! {Yes, yes, motes and beams, here it comes, I'm bracing for impact! }

I manage to piss people off by trying to say, "Gee, maybe God is big enough, Loving enough, intelligent enough, and forward-thinking enough to work through all world religions" - and I get rapped on the knuckles for it every time! [I'm not the only one, I've noticed.]

Meanwhile, seeds of contention & discord seem to just be raining from the heavens, and this is despite John 10:16, and the presence & participation of several people at CR who have usually been able to offset this nonsense. It is genuinely, truly disheartening.

I haven't checked, is Mars just in a very conspicuous placement right now? Is Saturn (JeHoVaH) preparing us for something? What happened to those Aquarian energies, which should still be reaching us during the present month of this sign of Unity, Harmony and Group Effort?

My head is in my hands.

~zag

 

[Silas]

We see one Master of the Wisdom, whom Christians have known twice in their Bibles (once in the Old Testament, and once in the New), telling us that, "the only real sin of the New Era is that of separativeness." And this works itself out in many ways, and rears its ugly head in all types of circumstances & situations.

The irony, it seems, is that it is so pronounced among religious-minded people, who should certainly know better! For example, I find that more often than not, even though I might have started to say (or post) something with the best of intentions ... if I am not careful, the very effort backfires, and suddenly I manage to create the opposite result! How frustrating!!!

I would have to say, that if the intention of several people at CR of late, has been to sow seeds of strife and discord, create division, and pretty well demonstrate the failings of Christianity (or at least, Churchianity) - and perhaps various other religions ... then Kudos!!! You've done marvelously! {Yes, yes, motes and beams, here it comes, I'm bracing for impact! }

I manage to piss people off by trying to say, "Gee, maybe God is big enough, Loving enough, intelligent enough, and forward-thinking enough to work through all world religions" - and I get rapped on the knuckles for it every time! [I'm not the only one, I've noticed.]

Meanwhile, seeds of contention & discord seem to just be raining from the heavens, and this is despite John 10:16, and the presence & participation of several people at CR who have usually been able to offset this nonsense. It is genuinely, truly disheartening.

I haven't checked, is Mars just in a very conspicuous placement right now? Is Saturn (JeHoVaH) preparing us for something? What happened to those Aquarian energies, which should still be reaching us during the present month of this sign of Unity, Harmony and Group Effort?

My head is in my hands.

~zag

Are you like some sort of cult member? Why did you call God Saturn?

 

[InLove]

I'd be happy to share a communion rail with you

And I with you, Laurie.

InPeace,
InLove

 

[taijasi]

Are you like some sort of cult member? Why did you call God Saturn?

Yes, Silas, I'm a cult member. It's the cult of Love, the greatest CONSPIRACY of all time. And we're coming for YOU!



SO!

Why did I call God Saturn? Because THIS is the Lord of tests and trials. THIS is the Logos Who - when misrepresented via our little, human (mis-)understanding - becomes the angry, tribal, wrathful god who PUNISHES, and dispenses Justice with Fiery Thunderbolts and a Great Booming Voice!!!

We forget the Wisdom of Mercury, the tempering moderation and Compassionate Understanding of Jupiter, the Brotherly Advice of Venus ... and the Counsel of this Elder Brother [Venus].

Each planet has a Regent, or an Angel, and Saturn is but one of these - far too advanced for us to rightly understand. We are still much too subject to the fiery quickening of Mars as this plays itself out within our human passions (or "sin-nature").

Study your Bible, Silas. It's in there! (Like the Ragu commericals used to say ... )

God's Love, God's Presence, is (more than a bit) like the SUN. Even when there are clouds, is the Sun not still shining? Even when our planet turns, and we are not facing Him, is the Sun not still shining?

~zag

 

[Silas]

Yes, Silas, I'm a cult member. It's the cult of Love, the greatest CONSPIRACY of all time. And we're coming for YOU!



SO!

Why did I call God Saturn? Because THIS is the Lord of tests and trials. THIS is the Logos Who - when misrepresented via our little, human (mis-)understanding - becomes the angry, tribal, wrathful god who PUNISHES, and dispenses Justice with Fiery Thunderbolts and a Great Booming Voice!!!

We forget the Wisdom of Mercury, the tempering moderation and Compassionate Understanding of Jupiter, the Brotherly Advice of Venus ... and the Counsel of this Elder Brother [Venus].

Each planet has a Regent, or an Angel, and Saturn is but one of these - far too advanced for us to rightly understand. We are still much too subject to the fiery quickening of Mars as this plays itself out within our human passions (or "sin-nature").

Study your Bible, Silas. It's in there! (Like the Ragu commericals used to say ... )

God's Love, God's Presence, is (more than a bit) like the SUN. Even when there are clouds, is the Sun not still shining? Even when our planet turns, and we are not facing Him, is the Sun not still shining?

~zag

I think you have another version of love than of the Bible. Let me guess? You're not a Christian, right? How come, by the way?

 

[taijasi]

I think you have another version of love than of the Bible. Let me guess? You're not a Christian, right? How come, by the way?

How come? I'm really, honestly not trying to be nasty, Silas. Thomas would probably disagree, and he's convinced I hate all Catholics & Catholicism, but let's just leave that aside for the moment.

I'm not trying to be nasty when I say ... I'm not Christian, partially, because of what you end up making out of the Bible, including some of the very same passages which appeal to me.

Yet as I said on the other thread, I have no interest in scripture-picking with you, and hearing about how, So-and-so is what this really means. I will either meet you on the same footing, wherein a PERSON is entitled to interpret Scripture, find Inspiration in it, and allow this to move him or her to Action (Charitable, Loving Action - as per I Cor:13) ...

... or I will politely agree to disagree, and let you believe that your own chosen interpretation of the Bible is the correct one. I'm man enough to take a couple steps back, and say, NO, I'm not "God Almighty," therefore I DON'T know exactly what x means ... or at least admit that there are any number of possible meanings, or levels of meaning, which I am not an ultimate authority to decide.

You got an interest there? Ok.

But we're on the Christianity thread, and it is only fair that if you'd like to quote scripture all day long to support your points ... you be free to do so. Thus, meet me on another thread, where I can politely request that we use our own wits, and not thump the bible all day long - to do our thinking for us.

God gave you a brain, a heart, a mind and the five+ senses to open up to others, and the world around you ... and to decide for yourself. I would submit that my own gifts are no better, maybe even no different than your own. Let's not try to get an edge by clutching a paper pope and crying Authority!

See ya elsewhere, else God Bless,

~Zag

 

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Silas!

Was this to me? And if so, do you believe we should fellowship with those who are still in sin?

From my point of view, that would include everybody...including you.

Or, as Jesus put it, he did not come to heal the healthy, he came to heal the sick. He walked among the beggers, thieves and lepers...not so much the aristocratic self-righteous pharisees and sadducees.

In other words..."Physician, heal thyself!"

 

[Silas]

Kindest Regards, Silas!

From my point of view, that would include everybody...including you.

Or, as Jesus put it, he did not come to heal the healthy, he came to heal the sick. He walked among the beggers, thieves and lepers...not so much the aristocratic self-righteous pharisees and sadducees.

In other words..."Physician, heal thyself!"

Thou shalt not twist scripture. Though everyone is a sinner, the Christian is a new creature in Christ. He is forgiven and the wrath of God is removed from Him. Moreover, he has God's promise that He is being transformed into Jesus' image through the process of sanctification. The Christian has God's promise that he will be holy. And, "without holiness, no one will see God."

 

[Prober]

I would have to say, that if the intention of several people at CR of late, has been to sow seeds of strife and discord, create division, and pretty well demonstrate the failings of Christianity (or at least, Churchianity) - and perhaps various other religions ... then Kudos!!! You've done marvelously! {Yes, yes, motes and beams, here it comes, I'm bracing for impact! }

I manage to piss people off by trying to say, "Gee, maybe God is big enough, Loving enough, intelligent enough, and forward-thinking enough to work through all world religions" - and I get rapped on the knuckles for it every time! [I'm not the only one, I've noticed.]

My head is in my hands.

~zag

No matter what our perception as Christians is of this statement, if this is how our brother (and potentially many more of our audience), for whom Christ died, perceives us, HOW ARE WE EVER TO WIN SOULS TO CHRIST?

 

[Silas]

No matter what our perception as Christians is of this statement, if this is how our brother (and potentially many more of our audience), for whom Christ died, perceives us, HOW ARE WE EVER TO WIN SOULS TO CHRIST?

Brother, dont think that it is we who persuade godless and god hating men to come to Christ by what we say. We are only God's mouth peices - Like Balaam's donkey. God wins the souls bro, he saves. We only have to give the message and God does the work. In the day of salvation God makes the sinner willing. If we ever persuade a sinner to come to Christ by our own power, it will not last. God has to do that supernatural work spoken about in Eze. 37:35-36 and in John 3.

 

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards again, Silas!

All sins, including homosexuality, is evil in God's sight.

Speaking as a poster, I find myself in more general agreement with Earl. Yes, "all sins, including homosexuality, is (sic) evil in G-d's sight." That would include lying (even miniscule little partial truths and pleasant platitudes that have no basis in fact), that would include stealing (even using the computer at work to goof off or taking any insignificant little item like a pencil or sheet of paper from work), that would include breaking the law of the land that does not conflict with G-d's law (even one mile per hour over the speed limit...ever)...in other words, none of us can claim we are not living in sin.

Do not suppose that God is loving people who continue in sin and choose sin over Him. Do not assume that God is bound or obligated to forgive a person just because they say that they are sorry.

Just for clarification...it is alright for you to assume you know the mind of G-d? But not for me to assume G-d will forgive? I think I'll stick with the words of Jesus...thanks anyway.

God has commanded men everywhere to repent and trust in Jesus.

He has also commanded, in far more distinct terms, not to be judgemental towards our fellow brothers and sisters who are trying their best to reach out to Him.

If people dont do that, Earl, they will suffer his wrath. The Sovereign of God the Universe has spoken through his word, you either believe it or dont.

While this may be true, I find it quite presumptuous that any human would dare to think they understand the mind of G-d, what He will save and not save, who He will condemn and not condemn...especially when He has stated emphatically and for the record: "judge not, that ye be not judged." And that by what measure you measure, things will be measured against you. No mercy for those who show no mercy, no forgiveness for those who cannot forgive.

It also presumes that you have any say over my life. And I don't take that from anybody. About the closest is my parents, and you don't even come close. I answer to G-d, not you. G-d did not appoint you as my judge, you are not my jury, and you damn sure are not my executioner. Get over it. Unless of course, you don't mind the reverse being true...let me tell you how to live for a while.

But please, dont be so condesending as to think that Jesus' love and yours is on the same plateau.

But it is OK for you to be so condescending as to speak for Jesus? It is OK for you to pretend you are on the same plateau, but not for others to do the same? Just want to be certain I understand...because ultimately that is what your rants are all about. You are equal with Jesus in your own eyes, and you are here to tell everybody what they are doing so wrong, with the full faith and credit of the Jesus institution behind every word you speak!

Balderdash and poppycock! If ever there was a brainwashed cult...

Jesus, the God of the universe, loves righteousness and hates sin in all of its form. That said, God is also merciful! There is forgiveness for anyone who will foresake their sins and come to Christ.

You have this correct in the words, but the meaning is lost in translation. You emphasize the hate, death and destruction...you have no emphasis at all on the love, mercy and forgiveness.

I assure, the end result of the road you travel is a huge backslide in error, unless and until you realize, deeply, in your heart of hearts, just what forgiveness and not being judgemental really means.

Dont think you can remain a sinner and be loved of God. That may work with some other god (especially the ones people create in their minds), but it will not with the true God - the God of the Bible.

That is your assumption. Frankly, I am immensely grateful that G-d still loves me even though I am still a sinner. He may not appreciate the sin, but He also understands I do the best I know how with what I understand, and that I love Him with all of my being, and that as a child of His I want to be found in His grace.

Matthew 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Matthew 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

*You may play the role of the self-righteous pharisee praying aloud in the public place if you wish (for that is precisely the role you play here)...I will play the role of the penitent sinner pounding on my breast in anguish calling on the mercy of my Heavenly Father. Bedamned what any other human thinks...*

Matthew 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

Matthew 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Matthew 5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

Matthew 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

Matthew 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

Matthew 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

XXX

Matthew 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Matthew 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Matthew 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

Matthew 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

*If we really must be about casting stones Silas, I can think of quite a few stones to cast in your direction…but I would rather you learned the lesson of forgiveness, in order to spare your soul from hellfire.*