Haunting Evidence...

17th Angel

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Have you seen the little piggies crawling in the d
Anyone (UK) see this last night? On ergh I think LivingTV. When I watch that "most haunted" crap I can't help but laugh and take with, but a pinch of salt... But this Haunting Evidence is pretty tidy, more realistic, more professional and just overall better... Anyone seen this show then?
I've seen the australian one, quite convincing except that you never hear that the actual cases get resolved.
All the clues gathered are quite suspiciously left in the air.
Purportedly, young children and animals can sense "things not of this world" rather naturally and purportedly children lose that ability with age. So, thought I'd share a personal tale. When our recently turned 8 y.o. was around 2, 1 night he, my wife, and I were driving down a local street. He had not been really verbal that long at that time and certainly my wife and I had never even used the term "ghost" with him before. For some reason my wife & I got on the subject of ghosts & soon as we mentioned the word, he became quite animated, saying he saw ghosts, (think the movie "Sixth Sense"). He chattered away regarding it for 6 blocks as we drove along, never once pointing at anything. Then, as we came along a building where my wife used to have a place of business, one reputedly "haunted," though we'd never said anything to him re that and he'd never even been near that building before, he pointed directly at the building and said that a ghost lived there. :) earl
One thing that I never understood about ghosts is that they come back.

My question is:

Why would anyone want to come back? sheesh. :rolleyes:

seems a bit redundant if you ask me. :rolleyes:

Also on that same note, why do demons get into children? :rolleyes:

It seems a wate of time to me to get into someone that has little authority and is not physically strong or influential. :rolleyes:

Just my Logical mind kicking in. ;)
Yo Yo:D . Theory re youngin's seeing ghosts is simply as they've yet to develop their ego functions which do so much "screening" of our perceptions, they are simply able to see things older folk can't. They're already there so to speak, not so much that ghosts come to children, though kids are quite the attraction to me, so maybe they can be a magnet. As to why ghosts come back-well presumably they never left. That's their problem. They need to get a life.:D have a good one, earl
Yo Yo:D . Theory re youngin's seeing ghosts is simply as they've yet to develop their ego functions which do so much "screening" of our perceptions, they are simply able to see things older folk can't. They're already there so to speak, not so much that ghosts come to children, though kids are quite the attraction to me, so maybe they can be a magnet. As to why ghosts come back-well presumably they never left. That's their problem. They need to get a life.:D have a good one, earl

Earl, your answers were cool, but demons must have a motive and to accomplish that motive would take more than invading children.

what is your thorey on why they do what they do?
Well I don't believe in demons or possession. But I've worked in psychotherapy for 25+ years and have had experiences wth other children in a professional capacity which involved perception of "spirits." These were typically children <6 y.o. I recall a 5 y.o. for instance whose beloved deceased grandmother visited her shortly after her death. My more "rational" colleagues did not know what to make of such stories as in their worldview, there was no place for this-had to be psychosis. Fortunately no one pushed drugs on the kid. I worked with a woman, who had definite emotional problems but also was legitimately psychic. Theoretically psychic abilities run in families, particularly among females. As she learned that I did not pathologize her psychic abilities, she decided to bring her 14 y.o. daughter to me who was struggling with sorting out what her own recently blooming psychic experiences meant. Often such psychic abilities begin to bloom in these cases more clearly in early adolescence. The daughter shared with me something she had never shared with her mother; she perceived the spirits of the deceased. I helped her reassure herself she wasn't nuts. have a good one, earl
I grew up with a clairvoyant sister. I am 34 (almost 35); she is now 30. She is still clairvoyant.

My sister currently lives with a fella whose family runs a funeral home. He has primary responsibilities, she assists. Some time ago I asked her if she was "still clairvoyant," which isn't something that's always easy to discuss, even with family members (or especially so, depending). She confirmed it, and we talked about it a good bit.

Earl's put his finger right on it, in my understanding, Yo. What my sister indicates is that typically the stragglers, so to speak, are precisely that. They've not returned, it's just that they've become attached, and never left. The best movie I've seen that deals with various kinds of attachments is `Ghost,' with Patrick Swayze, Whoopi Goldberg and Demi Moore (et al). I don't just think this is kind of like how things are, I believe it quite close to Gospel! :)

My sister describes the basement of the funeral home, where the embalming is done, as a very chilling place, psychically. Regardless as to actual temperature (which may also be quite chilly), the place is "soooo cold," as she describes it. It's her least favorite part of the work she does, and one of the aspects of her clairvoyance which doesn't particularly thrill her.

More times than she can count, she has witnessed (dead) people, just standing there, looking at their bodies. She describes them as very angry, very, very upset about what they see happening to them. And can we blame them? Our society is so terribly materialistic, right down to an obsession with corporeal life - even to the excessive, extreme denial of the spiritual - that we will literally stop at no end (if arrangements are not made otherwise) to PREVENT that which is inevitable, natural and presumably God-ordained. Why is this?

So, these poor people, who literally do not realize that they are even dead (sounds silly, you'd think they'd have figured it out, eh?) ... are quite upset, that they are having to witness their body, right there before them, being embalmed. Frankly, it kind of gives me the willies ... but it has also given me much to ponder since my sister disclosed this. Probably these people are not regarding even their own (post-mortem) situation with quite the objectivity, and outside perspective, that my sister has.

I don't know, for example, if they really objectively see the inert, unsouled mass of flesh in front them (for what it now is), or if, instead, their perceptions may be filtered (even in the immediate afterlife? You bet!!!) by what they are still trying to see, and accomplish. That body, remember, represents the last remaining shred of what - quite clearly - was their OWN, God-provided vehicle for communicating with the outer, physical world ... for their 3-score & ten, or whatever.

One poor man, whom I take to be an extreme earthbound, is sometimes over in one corner of the basement, and my sister, who has seen dead people and astral phenomenon for her entire 30 years, says he "scares the bejeebers outta her!" ... as she goes up the stairs. I mean, here's a person (my sister) who can deal with the whole Sixth Sense thing, 99% of the time, but when it comes to this poor, old man, she really just can't cope. She says he simply stands there, with a deep, deep scowl on his face, and he doesn't move, and he doesn't say a word. Instead, if my sister moves around, like when she goes upstairs to leave, he just stands there motionless, and follows her with his eyes, all the while still scowling. :eek:

It's hard to imagine a worse case of someone clinging who doesn't need to, but just doesn't know how to let go! And this is why Spiritualism, the early to mid 19th Century movement which popularized seances, mediumship and spirit rappings (which the skeptics claim are all faked), was really a Godsend. I think it helped open doors, and break through a scientific materialism which had just gone overboard with its insistence on strict, provable, empirical evidence - and a denial of all things supra-physical.

And while certainly there is a downside, or a shortcoming to some spiritualistic practices (both for mediums, and for people who are delayed in their afterlife progression by well-intentioned family members who want "one last visit") ... I feel that even a show like John Edward's `Crossing Over' cannot be over-appreciated! And YES, I believe in him, and his abilities (as those of a James van Praagh) 100%!!! (Why shouldn't I, I've sat next to clairvoyants, co-experienced their abilities, experienced some of this for myself, and even induced it - naturally - within others. What's not to believe!?!)

But Yo, as for what motivations "demons" might want for haunting, or obsessing children, I think there are lots of possibilities. As for ghosts, or spirits of the deceased, the simplest explanation is that we're not dealing with demons at all, just ordinary people - of all backgrounds & walks of life - who recognize in thus or another young person that there is still the openness and susceptibility which earl has described. Sometimes, I think children (and certainly pets) can perceive quite directly and literally denizens of the astral plane (deceased or otherwise). Other times, even when there is not literal perception, or clairvoyance/clairaudience, there is still an awareness, and this would possibly fit your son's case, earl.

Since I do believe in demons, I think you should keep directing our discussion, Yo, and see what we can turn up. If you've ever seen the movie `Golden Child,' with Eddie Murphy, there's a wonderful depiction of what, sort of a "grand demon" might be like. Eddie Murphy calls him affectionately (and sarcastically) brother Numsey ... and is a bit horrified late in the movie when this white, upper-class, urban gentleman, turns out to be not just a sorceror of moderate means, but literally a foul, hellspawn, flying demon, temporarily clothed in human form.

And of course, like so much else in life, truth turns out to be stranger than fiction ... but I do tend to think that Hollywood exaggerated this one a wee bit by way of special effects. ;) :p :D

Anyway, I'd say that the least of the demons are mere thought-forms (or egregores, as Thomas calls them, after Eliphas Levi's classification) - works that are entirely of our own creation! These simply desire - unconsciously and without anything like an independent willpower - their own preservation. If they can find expression through children, who are still sensitive to the astral plane (owning to reasons that earl has already mentioned), then at least it perpetuates their existence. This is really just self-preservation (and thus not evil, as such) ...

Cycles of violence, and various addictive behaviors, are examples of this on a larger scale, yet since children are particularly susceptible to strong emotions, we are truly dealing with a form of demon possession in something as commonplace as domestic violence, alchoholism or even verbally abusive families. We cannot attribute the vicious cycle to an evil source outside of many of these contexts, such as a demon in the more conventional (or Hollywood) sense, but what else are these malicious thoughtforms (Humanity's own creations), if not "evil" and "demons?"

I think a more enlightened future will better recognize, and "exorcise" this problem. But this is only one manifestation, or example, of demons, and my own finding is that the stuff we see - once Hollywood gets ahold of it - is a far cry from the truth of things. The closest we really come is the latest trend, which has taken the cheesy, gory, campy cult classics ... to whole new levels, thanks to more, better special effects, and especially digital editing, or `CG' (Computer Graphics).

And still, all we are doing is beginning to tap some of the most intense emotions associated with fear: horror and terror. If anything, these are the medium of expression, and modus operandi for the more malevolent demons, yet here we can actually learn much from Eddie Murphy's comic references to brother Numsey. If you've seen the movie then you know, the latter was not a rabid, frightening, unthinking beast (not till the end, anyway), acting without motive or strategy. He was usually exceedingly calm, collected, and quite cunning - even unperturbable were it not for our hero's epic abilities. And as for what he wanted with young children? Well that's what the movie is about!

Golden Child, in which brother Numsey has the little, "buddha-midget kid" kidnapped ... the more I think about it, the more I think it holds exactly the answer you might be looking for, Yo! ;) :)

(It leaves me wondering, have you seen the movie, and if so, had you considered this, relevant to your posts & question? ;))

Do I really believe in the premise of it all, and that there are actually malevolent beings/persons out there, who truly oppose God's Plan, and will stop at nothing to stand in the way? I wish I could say no. :(

But do I think children, who surely come into this world each a living testament to God's Love and to human innocence ... are children really at the mercy (spiritually speaking) of evil demons, and negative influences willy nilly? Not for a moment! I believe in karma, and Dharma (Purpose), and in a Loving Design that takes everything, and everyone, into account.

Not a sparrow falls ... :)

What about the film "A beautiful mind" where the people he saw where a creation of his own mind, the three imaginary people fulfilled a psychological need analogous to coping mechanisms.
It is a possibility that some of these experiences are the result of mental disorders, how can you tell the difference.

I am the least sensitive to this kind of phenomena that you can get, in the past I've known christians (specially women) saying that that city, neighbourhood or place is very "heavy". Whereas myself I don't notice anything particular save for the common sense: that is not particularly uplifting to walk by a seedy street for example.

The only thing I experience sometimes is a pressing feeling that it is time to contact my parents (we live in different countries and I don't talk to them often), it increases gradually and at it's peak (if I put it off) they call me almost straight away.

My dad says that he feels his dad's presence sometimes when for example he is driving on a long journey. I don't know if is true or not but I tend to think that that it could be just psychological comforting.

I just don't find the boundary between the spiritual or psychological well defined at all. People either deny the spiritual as psychological, or their minds distort what they experience and try to make it into something that does not exist.
To the one hearing the story, of course it can be tough to sort out delusion/fantasy from reality, (particularly if your mindset automatically interprets it 1 way or the other). But to start, with true psychotic disorders-the ones where folks see & hear stuff that's not there & it really isn't-also function very poorly in their daily lives as an aspect of their disorder. So if you've got someone reporting such phenomena-assuming they're not shining you on-who functions pretty normally, probably something "real" to their experience. As to products of the imagination in general, with children the dividing line betwen fantasy and reality is normally more blurred than adults, which make making that call tougher. Though, as in the story of my grandson, too much to be a coincidence in that tale.;) But for adults, who aren't psychotic, they can adequately make that distinction. have a good one, earl
A well respected parapsychogocial researcher, Gary Schwartz, of Univ. of Arizona, has been doing interesting research and 1 of his subjects prior to her public notoriety was Allison DuBois, real person behind the American TV program "The Medium." He thought she was his most accurate subject. Here's a link to his research activities.


have a good one, earl