Alternate Realities/Alternate Universes

[Quahom1]

a fine greeting to all of you wonderful thinkers.....

alternate realities. yep. sure gets the imagination going, doesn't it?

time, gravity, and expansion and contraction of what we perceive to be 'our' universe.

re the deja vu experiences: i've wondered if a factor could be gravitational fluxuation. it's been theorized that time can be affected by gravity. therefore, would gravity fluxuation not impact time? time, in that small geographical location. right where you were. specifically.
add to that, that our minds only percieve existing in the 'now'. a moment before is past, a moment to come is future. so, we assume.
we've (not all) experienced those moments when everything seems to be a thing that's happened before. we know in that instant what is going to happen next, what is going to be said by so and so next. and as we're experiencing it... we're also observing it. noting. questioning. and, then it's suddenly 'gone'.... and everything is as it usually is. and, ocassionally we even ask another present if they were aware of what just happened.
therefore, did that time-slip cause a leak over from another reality? or did we just meet ourselves (and everything involved) coming... and... going?
AND... that it happened only right there where you were. It did not occur to others a few feet away.
Is it that some are more able to perceive it, and not others?
Although it's happened to enough that it's commonly understood the moment you say the words, deja vu. still, you'll hear, "it's never happened to me."

alternate realities: i think that gets back to that thing we refer to as time. i also think that we don't understand it in the least. as with most that we're discovering, we're only at the beginning.... which LMBO.. of course infers the usuage of the term... time.
that it is caused/exists by multiple dimensions is comfortably feasible.

way back a long long time ago, i'd read an article in Scientific American that refered to human awareness. i'm going to err in the usuage of the numbers.... but you'll get my drift.... and, perhaps have access to the correct figures:
mankind's awareness is: .153 - .143 of a second.
although my numbers are not exact (can't remember it well enough to quote), that says that anything faster than .143 we see as stationary and everything slower than .153, we're not even aware of.
that leaves a lot of room for the existance of other forms, totally oblivious to us. and, in our own dimension. so, it'd seem we'd not have to go far at all to just recognize that our reality is based totally on our perception.

i see it as more of a 'multiple realities', along with the probability of alternate realities. particularly when we also think in terms of the numerous dimensions theoretically found.
now, add to that...... for every matter there is anti-matter. it doesn't matter (no pun intended) whether we're + or - matter. what ever we are, there is an opposite.

so, what all of this means is that life as we know it is far more than we know it. and that's not only intriguing.... it's downright exciting.

i'd read Richard Bach's "Illusions". and, loved it. i got up out of that comfy chair, looked at that solid wall, knowing there are spaces in our togetherness.... and thought, "nahhh, it ain't gonna happen". much as i understood what he'd said.... there was no way i could pass thru that wall.
well, at least not as firmly indoctrinated as We are in the laws of 3rd dimensional existance. yet, i understood the possibilities. so i did dishes instead. watch the phillanges get 'dish-pan-hands'... and thought, "shucks, it's jes an illusion."

granni

Welcome aboard the starship Earth Ms. Granni!

Your point about gravitation affecting time is right on the money. Time and space are directly affected by gravity according to Einsteinian law. Only gravity does not pull us, it pushes us (think about a vacuum cleaner...it does not draw in atmosphere, it pushes atmosphere out of a confined space, but the hole at the other end allows the atmosphere to rush back in in order to attempt to balance out - very weird). In any event, gravity also affects energy, as well as mass.

Let us suppose there is a singularity the size of a quark (which is part of an electron that orbits an hydrogen atom - the simplest form of matter known).

Now lets suppose the singularity is in the middle of a room just beneath the floor, with you on one side of the room and your family on the other side.

You walk across the floor to be with your family and cross over the area where the singularity is (providing there was a floor to begin with). As you cross over the singularity, your family would see you frozen in time, just like a statue. To them you would be frozen that way for ever. In fact, 1,000,000 plus generations of your family would still see you frozen in time. And if you looked back from whence you came, you would see yourself walking towards you, and yourself as younger, and your mom and dad as babies, and so on...

But to you...it was only the distance and moment of one step, and in that instant of one step you would see 1,000,000 plus generations come and go at the other side of the room (in a hurricane of a blur I might add). When you did finish your step (if you could), and moved away from the direct influence of the singularity, you would find that BILLIONS of years had gone by, and you would be the universe's oldest granni (from their point of view, not yours). Also, from your point of view, countless planets, Stars, Galaxies and multiverses (if there is such a thing), would have been formed, matured, and died.

Kind of easier to understand why scripture insists that God's time is not our time...don't you think?

From a purely scientific point of view, you were both in time and out of time (omnipresent)

Enough linear thought, now let's consider parrallel thinking.

You described a phase differential in our perception of time .0010 of a second I think. How many subsets of time increments can you break that .0010 of a second down into? An infinite amount. Which some argue is cause for considering that there are in infinit number of realities, each out of sync in time with the others, which allows for all these universes to exist in the same space. That is possible because each existance is in a different time (no two objects can occupy the same space at the same time). And the farther away from eachother in time the realities are, the more diverse the realities become, to the point of non recognition and beyond. Talk about one hell of a crap shoot (I got a double infinity). ;-)

Now if a person were sensitive to time variations, they might see duendes of their own reality, that are similar to their own, but not exact. They might see things from before, or after their own timeline, but it would not be from their own timeline. They might experience things from one time line that never occurred in their own. They might even be able to slip from their own timeline to another, and back again (the shoes were at the end of the bed, I swear! Now they're gone!...now they're back?...)

Our dreams might be influenced by this phenomenon. We have lucid dreams where we married this one, or did not marry, or got this job, or took this vactation (when we know we didn't), yet it seemed so real...to the point of heart break and tears in our waking moments...then it fades quickly from our consiousness.

Finally, take all the above and mirror it (an anti multiverse). There is your double infinity.

Now consider the God that created this...

What a game we have, called life!

v/r

Q

 

[granni]

ohh, my Q!!! thank you thank you thank you!!

what an astounding response! *great big cheek puffin grin* and, what an enjoyable read!
so, all these years, i've been right! *singing hallejuhia!*, and your response explains why my family and friends didn't understand one word i was excitedly saying....LOLOL!!! ohh, my! and, ii learned much in the word paintings of your response! *still singing* what a luxury! btw, are you saying that that lil ol quark causes the flux (time-slip)? now i understand the experience being very very location specific.

yes, i did think of the astounding numbers of realities within that .010th of a second frame. and yes.... i perceive them as occupying what we consider to be similar to this space, but not same. for everything faster than the .153rd of a second, the same would have to hold true. and everything slowers than the .143rd of a second would also have to be true. that leads to inumerable realities/universes/dimensions. beyond human capacitity to conceptualize. it would even exceed numbers (to the .zillionth of each fraction of a .zillionth of a second) as we know them. and the leak-over that we experience as deja vu. what fun food for thought!

am so glad that you mentioned the dreams that are so real, and very much lacking that normal dream-quality that hop-scotches all over the place.
i refer to them as dreaming of an other-where. where it's me much as i am now...but, different. doing and talking regular mundane things. as if existing somewhere else.
and the sometimes waking with tears and the knowledge that something i Knew... i've forgotten, or simply am unable in This waking/living reality. the feeling of loss is intense.

yes, i can comfortably conceive co-existing realities and life similar to what we know. and, becoming more dis-similar the more distance between realities/time-frames.
and that would also explain the mind's constant 'now'.
which of course takes me to memory.

and....... And........ the creativity behind the creations of what we're trying so hard to learn. it's beyond awesome. it's beautiful.

laws govern all that is in what we know as a universe, it stands to reason that We're also as logically existing per exact....and, yes, absolute rules and regs. cuz, heck.... we're part of all that is.

wadda way to start my day! thank you! (love playin in the abstract)

granni

 

[granni]

oh oh.

re:
You walk across the floor to be with your family and cross over the area where the singularity is (providing there was a floor to begin with). As you cross over the singularity, your family would see you frozen in time, just like a statue. To them you would be frozen that way for ever. In fact, 1,000,000 plus generations of your family would still see you frozen in time. And if you looked back from whence you came, you would see yourself walking towards you, and yourself as younger, and your mom and dad as babies, and so on...

Q, that means that we're gonna hafta beef up our building codes a bit. cuz that house ain't gonna last all them generations. and with the real estate market being what it is, them younguns're gonna sell that house, shure as shootin! then, they're gonna put me in some home. and them doctors ain't gonna have the skills to know i'm jes fixed in 'time'... instead, to them, i'm mysteriously dead, while seemingly alive. oh, dear! them folks ain't gonna know what to do. *sigh*


****

But to you...it was only the distance and moment of one step, and in that instant of one step you would see 1,000,000 plus generations come and go at the other side of the room (in a hurricane of a blur I might add). When you did finish your step (if you could), and moved away from the direct influence of the singularity, you would find that BILLIONS of years had gone by, and you would be the universe's oldest granni (from their point of view, not yours). Also, from your point of view, countless planets, Stars, Galaxies and multiverses (if there is such a thing), would have been formed, matured, and died.

of course i'd be able to finish that step. ain't nothin gonna last forever. course, to humans it does seem to, esspecially ifin you slow down enough to lissen to 'em talk now and then. oy.....
now, that seems to be the solution for the desire to create time-travel. course, it means an awful lot of catchin up to do. *where'd i leave them readin glasses?*
i wouldn't fret none 'bout them stars, galaxies and verses dyin off. i'd still know that all was as it should be.
except the the slight anomoly........ me. that's assuming that somehow mankind had managed to ensure the surviving existance of a form that they knew as, granni.
BUT.... with the contracting of the universe, and the reversal of time, i'd have met myself on that spot in the living room.... and stepped back off of that singularity. and having a sense of deja vu.... i'd not do it again.
oh oh. cain't do that. cuz to continue in reverse would be to be existing in a constant state of deja vu. and albiet intriguing, i don't think that's gonna be a reality.

*****


Kind of easier to understand why scripture insists that God's time is not our time...don't you think?

LOL!! ain't never doubted that fer a moment. have jes been waitin fer other critters to come to know it.


wal, here i sit. wind's ablowin somethin fierce outside. rain's comin down in small sideways drops. jes peltin the east side of the house. but, this mornin, i've been a whole other where. a where that's not at all dreary.

thank you for the wee vacation.

granni

 

[granni]

"whoa Houston, we've got a problem!"

have been thinking on the quark thing.... and deja vu.
the event must be something much subtler than the quark scenario.

cuz:

if that deja vu was instigated by said quark, i'm still frozen in an Other Where, while my family's flashed before my eyes, moved me to a home, sold the house, the community's been overgrown for centuries, and the winds of time have covered the area with feet upon feet of topsoil blown in from the west....meanwhile,
here i sit in this concurrent reality as if only 20 years have passed since a deja vu experience... living life as if nothing's ever altered. jes, one fraction of a second away from that other me who's still frozen in 'time'...in another dimension.
so, how do we explain the memory of said experience, if an other me experienced it?
if in fact, "I" experienced it, it could not be caused by said quark.
if "I" carry the memory of it, and did not experience it... wal, that presents some rather remarkable ventures into Bradbury Land.

add to the above: while being frozen on that spot of the floor, the family sees me as frozen. to move me to said home and sell the house....someone in the family must touch me. in touching me, they'd become subject to the same rules governing said singularity. oh oh. of course, that would thin out the gene pool somewhat. and, that being said, means that all would see me eventually frozen in time, but hip deep in that top soil that's been blowing in from the west for the last millenium.

so, ya see.... i can't quite accept the quark as being responsible for the deja vu.... nor, the cause of the probable gravitational fluxuation.

perplexed granni

 

[Quahom1]

"whoa Houston, we've got a problem!"

have been thinking on the quark thing.... and deja vu.
the event must be something much subtler than the quark scenario.

cuz:

if that deja vu was instigated by said quark, i'm still frozen in an Other Where, while my family's flashed before my eyes, moved me to a home, sold the house, the community's been overgrown for centuries, and the winds of time have covered the area with feet upon feet of topsoil blown in from the west....meanwhile,
here i sit in this concurrent reality as if only 20 years have passed since a deja vu experience... living life as if nothing's ever altered. jes, one fraction of a second away from that other me who's still frozen in 'time'...in another dimension.
so, how do we explain the memory of said experience, if an other me experienced it?
if in fact, "I" experienced it, it could not be caused by said quark.
if "I" carry the memory of it, and did not experience it... wal, that presents some rather remarkable ventures into Bradbury Land.

add to the above: while being frozen on that spot of the floor, the family sees me as frozen. to move me to said home and sell the house....someone in the family must touch me. in touching me, they'd become subject to the same rules governing said singularity. oh oh. of course, that would thin out the gene pool somewhat. and, that being said, means that all would see me eventually frozen in time, but hip deep in that top soil that's been blowing in from the west for the last millenium.

so, ya see.... i can't quite accept the quark as being responsible for the deja vu.... nor, the cause of the probable gravitational fluxuation.

perplexed granni

Well now, good evening to you Granni! This is getting fun!

Does not Deja 'vu literally mean "seen before" or "already seen"? And the laws of physics whether macro or quantum apply only to energy and matter, not to the essence of a person (the immortal spirit if you will), is this not correct?

Now, let us consider a simple construct to illistrate the point of infinity.

Take a box and place a mirror in side. Line the sides of the box with christmas lights. Cover the top of the box with a one way mirror (one you can look through, but reflects everthing back on the other side). Turn on the lights and look into the box. From every angle you can possibly look, you see an infinite number of you, looking back at you. If you could step in the box, you would see an infinite number of you looking back and away from you. Which one of you is real? and which is the illusion? From an outsider, watching all of this it would be impossible to tell unless they could touch you (confirm matter and energy contained in your physical body). If they used an infrared lens to look, they would find an infinite number of heat sources coming from phantom bodies. Of course if the lens was sensitive enough, eventually it would lock onto the "orginal source".

Deja 'vu has nothing to do with the corporial reality. Its affect is on the spirit which maybe keeping step with linear time (for awhile), but not chained to linear time. Else, how can people wake up and beg their loved one not to go to work that day, or take this mode of transportation, or work on the roof, and can't explain it except to say they know something is not right. Only to find later that the factory blew up, or the train crashed or a tree fell on the roof. Were they there for an instant - ahead of their normal linear time? They could not have physically been there, but some part of them was, a part not constrained by time-space-gravity (which we now know are interconnected).

You got me thinking on the singularity issue again and I realized you brought up a significant point. Time for you would be normal, and time for them would be normal, but from each parties perspective the other would dissappear. The reason is because your time references would fall out of sync with eachother. One would fade gradually, and the other's would wink out instantly, the farther the time synchronization deviated.

I recommend an excellent book for you. It is called (appropriately enough)

E=MC2 by David Bodanis. It is not a dry read by any stretch. It is a biography of the world's most famous equation.

Interestingly enough, scientists in Scandinavia have successfully "transported" matter from one place to another, and reconstructed it to the original specs (think star trek). They have done it several times (for scientific validation), so it is no longer a theorem. It has become observable fact. However, they discovered an unusual anomaly. Namely for an instant, the object appeared to be in two places at the same time, existing together in different places simultaneously!

Life immitating Art immitating Life? Or reality coming into existence from what was once a concept of the mind?

Perhaps the laws of physics are not immutable. Perhaps they can be rewritten by those that dare to think out side the box...

Doesn't the Bible quote Jesus as stating "as you believe it, so it shall be"?

Even in the old testament, God said that there was nothing man can not accomplish if left to his own devices (I believe that preceded the confounding of languages during the building of the tower of Babel). It was not a compliment from God, but it was I believe, a revelation.

Your turn Granni

v/r

Q

 

[granni]

aww precious, of course the laws of physics aren't immuteable. ifin they were, we wouldn't be where we are today, physic ally speaking. and, that electron (i believe that's the experiment that you're referring to) wouldn't have been observed in two seperate places at the same time (lil minxes that they are). thank goodness them folks enjoy thinkin outside the box...with or without mirrors.

sooooooo, you think the 'essense'/spiritual aspect of us is other than energy, eh? hmmmm.... *thinking*
seems i've heard a story sayin that all matter is made of energy. course, them fellas might've been only talkin 'bout the energizer bunny.

now, i'm a mite tuckered.... been a long 29 hours without a winka sleep. am gonna fall into bed in a minute...*yawning*... then be back to a 12 hr shift in 8 more hours. so, i'm gonna chew on this some more. i'll be gittin back to ya.

lemme see... deja vu..... the mind only knows 'now' (yes, i'm aware of the events re planes trains and auto/other things)...... hmmmmm.....*thinkin*


*granni toddles off to git some serious zzzz's*

 

[Ban3]

Dreams

Hi all I am new here, so a friendly wave to you all.

I have always believed that there are multiple realities, and dreams definately hint at this.

Lucid dreams are sometimes easy to create sometimes difficult, one method is to look for something that is wrong with the picture(dream) for example you choose to adjust a drawing of grass to make it look realistic, so you make the grass grow out of the drawing, then your mind suddenly realises you are dreaming and you can gain complete control of the dream.

My strangest experience was when I initiated a lucid dream to do some study into multiple realities, I went to a university and asked someone to help me out, this man took me around the campus looking for the right lecture hall, after a while he found a dusty book called 'theory of realities' inside I found there were 4 classes of realities they were: Opaque, shadow, gravitational ( forming around areas of immense gravity) and the 4th I do not remember anymore. I also looked at an equation which was completely foreign to me.

In another of these dreams I went to a place which was a mixture of my best friends house, my mothers house and an unknown house. The landscape outside was similar but notably different with a nearby school, and apartments where there should be houses, I told a woman that I was from another reality and wanted to know of any facilities researching travel between realities, she informed me that her husband worked by a nearby facility and offered to take me, however when I got there I was woken up by people cutting the lawn outside.

A normal dream that I had once was of a grassy hiil next to an ocean, it was sunset and when I looked at the sky, every planet and galaxy seemed to crowd the sky.

-Ban3-

 

[granni]

a fine good evening to all of you.
i have returned from the living-dead or, the freezing living. oy.... that was a hard experience. i've never been so exhausted in my life. 12 hour shifts (at night) in freezing *yes, literally* temps.... 22, 24, 26, and 29 degree F.....with few scattered warm-ups wears a body down. i actually dozed off in mid-stride one night. the awareness of that fact showed me what all those workin folks, besides me, were dealing with. astounding experience, fer sure!

i also re-read my last post.... gadzooks, i was over-tired. LOL!! had to dig deep into the archives to figure out what i was tryin to say. "good night" would've said it better.

anyway........ precious G........

here's an interesting article just posted via CNN. methinks this may be closer to what both you and i have been trying to explain (although i sooooo much feast on yer phraseology).

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/10/20/warped.space/index.html

yep yep yep..... that ol gravitational pull.... that wobbly gravity thang. it's effects on the space surrounding our particular ball of dirt... and, us. and, of course that thing called.......time.
in time (no pun intended), with further investigation methinks that the phenomena of deja vu will be explained by this wobbly gravitational field on all planets.

ooops. what in the world (space) will explain it when it occurs on space trips. hmmmm.... what else causes gravitational fluxuations, particularly out thar?

yep. methinks that anything, however slight, that disrupts the known gravitational field for the occupant will cause a deja vu. at least for those who for whatever reason, seem more sensitive to the fluxuation effects.

now.... zip right on ahead........

since these deja vus occur (currently) without warning...... think of what we could do.... should we be able to Knowingly utilize them. constructively, of course (being an idealist).

honeychile, you bring up the aspect of the spiritual aspect of us. as if it (the "us" "me" "i") is without form. ie., lacking mass. if we (in that form) are energy....we Are mass.
let's look at the quark (loved that choice of name btw...LOL....sounds like a throttled duck.....quark quark...ROFL!! ahem....excuse me, i digress)
we can't see it, taste it, touch it, smell it, hear it..... but, we now know that teeny tiny lil thang exists. and there are other things just in this planet's atmosphere that we are unable to see...be aware of, that we know exist.
i think it's the same with the spirit of us. it does have form...just not what we're familiar with in our current human understanding.

sooooo, are those who experience deja vu, more sensitive than those who have not, because of something to do with the spiritual us....... or, simply our own electrical/molecular composition?
do those who experience it have more spiritual awareness? i don't think so. although i do think it may trigger a mental challenge to pursue it's cause in some. and, that pursuit would occur with those who are already innately curious....so, it'd simply be a slight, but intriguing, catalyst.

the other day, the daughter and grandkids jes irritated me a tad. so i walked around the living room lookin fer that quark....earth warp..... to see ifin i could make them disappear so i could have some peace n quiet. dagnab ifin it don't happen when ya need it! and, now the family jes plain thinks i'm weird. *sigh*


Ban3....... a warm welcome to ya! glad to see you jump right in!
i LOVE dreams. ain't they jes the most fun?!
the other night... mel gibson.... well.... shhhhh..... this ain't the time or place.


granni

 

[Quahom1]

...here's an interesting article just posted via CNN. methinks this may be closer to what both you and i have been trying to explain (although i sooooo much feast on yer phraseology).

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/10/20/warped.space/index.html

yep yep yep..... that ol gravitational pull.... that wobbly gravity thang. it's effects on the space surrounding our particular ball of dirt... and, us. and, of course that thing called.......time.
in time (no pun intended), with further investigation methinks that the phenomena of deja vu will be explained by this wobbly gravitational field on all planets.

ooops. what in the world (space) will explain it when it occurs on space trips. hmmmm.... what else causes gravitational fluxuations, particularly out thar?

yep. methinks that anything, however slight, that disrupts the known gravitational field for the occupant will cause a deja vu. at least for those who for whatever reason, seem more sensitive to the fluxuation effects.

now.... zip right on ahead........

since these deja vus occur (currently) without warning...... think of what we could do.... should we be able to Knowingly utilize them. constructively, of course (being an idealist).

honeychile, you bring up the aspect of the spiritual aspect of us. as if it (the "us" "me" "i") is without form. ie., lacking mass. if we (in that form) are energy....we Are mass.
let's look at the quark (loved that choice of name btw...LOL....sounds like a throttled duck.....quark quark...ROFL!! ahem....excuse me, i digress)
we can't see it, taste it, touch it, smell it, hear it..... but, we now know that teeny tiny lil thang exists. and there are other things just in this planet's atmosphere that we are unable to see...be aware of, that we know exist.
i think it's the same with the spirit of us. it does have form...just not what we're familiar with in our current human understanding.

sooooo, are those who experience deja vu, more sensitive than those who have not, because of something to do with the spiritual us....... or, simply our own electrical/molecular composition?
do those who experience it have more spiritual awareness? i don't think so. although i do think it may trigger a mental challenge to pursue it's cause in some. and, that pursuit would occur with those who are already innately curious....so, it'd simply be a slight, but intriguing, catalyst.

the other day, the daughter and grandkids jes irritated me a tad. so i walked around the living room lookin fer that quark....earth warp..... to see ifin i could make them disappear so i could have some peace n quiet. dagnab ifin it don't happen when ya need it! and, now the family jes plain thinks i'm weird. *sigh*


Ban3....... a warm welcome to ya! glad to see you jump right in!
i LOVE dreams. ain't they jes the most fun?!
the other night... mel gibson.... well.... shhhhh..... this ain't the time or place.


granni

Good evening Granni,

Given that if Time/Space/Gravity (which Einstein said is one and the same) is made of guantifiable "substance"...

I believe that macro physics has provided us with substantial clues all along, clues that can be sensed by at least 4 of the 5 physical senses.

The attempt by the author of the article you provided the link to, only explained the phenomenon half way (e.g. what one would see when a bowling ball is rolled along the surface of a bed's mattress). We only see half the effect the "globe" has on the "fabric" of the mattress, because only one side is being displayed.

A better visual portrayal, I think would be a bowling ball moving through a medium of water (which surrounds it on all sides), or the bullistic signature of a projectile (shock wave) captured on high speed film.

From a tactile perspective, a body moving through water would feel the pressure building before it due to the resistance of the substance of the water, and the curious lack of resistance felt behind the moving body (same thing could be said of moving through an gaseous atmosphere at a high rate of speed).

From an audio perspective, a person moving through an atmosphere hears the build up of sound in front, and a curious quieting of sound from behind, as well as an increase in pitch, followed by a decrease in pitch respectively.

There is also the constant need to increase energy to maintain greater and greater velocities through these mediums, due to the increase in resistance ahead, and not just from a two dimensional stand point, or even a 360 degree perspective, but from 129,600 dimensional points on the physical three dimensional plane (and we haven't considered the points of time that are effected).

Gravity, we now know pushes, not pulls (which leads to the logical conclusion that gravity, like all other forms of energy is a positive force, not the only negative form of known energy).

If two forces of Space/Time/Gravity react with eachother, then mini reactions occur which could double back over previously covered areas (which might help explain deja vu).

Just a thought to your thought, to my thought...

v/r

Q

 

[granni]

precious Q......

this is probably quite basic and simplistic to you........ however, the gravity pushing rather than pulling has me boonswaggled.

ifin it pushes.... why are we somewhat glued to the outter face of this planet?

i can grasp that concept relative to the planets orbiting the sun.... yet, i feel it's a mutual push-pull cooperation going on.

and, you know people.... they can't cooperate 'bout much of anything. so, that's not what's preventing us from becoming instant space-men...er, women.

will you please continue with the 'gravity pushes' concept?

granni

 

[Quahom1]

precious Q......

this is probably quite basic and simplistic to you........ however, the gravity pushing rather than pulling has me boonswaggled.

ifin it pushes.... why are we somewhat glued to the outter face of this planet?

i can grasp that concept relative to the planets orbiting the sun.... yet, i feel it's a mutual push-pull cooperation going on.

and, you know people.... they can't cooperate 'bout much of anything. so, that's not what's preventing us from becoming instant space-men...er, women.

will you please continue with the 'gravity pushes' concept?

granni

Ok Granni,



This is my take on the issue of gravity:



Suppose we agree that space exerts a type of universal "pressure" in all directions simultaneously.



Now add a single body into the equation. A compacted bit of matter. Do not add intertia to the body, do not spin the body (it is simply suspended in the middle of space). With the exception of the localized area where the body is imbedded in the middle of the fabric of space, time is not distorted, nor is space warped. The body of matter goes nowhere because of the equal pressure placed upon it from all directions. (Remember I'm suggesting that the universal pressure is equal from every point, and is constant).



Now add a second body into the equation, again do not add intertia to the body, do not spin the body, but let it be suspended in the middle of space. Only now it is not in the middle. It is off center of space and it literally creates a pressure differential between between it and the original body suspended in space. Instead of the pressure of space acting equally on both bodies in all directions, the line of sight area between the two bodies has a lower pressure ratio of influence by space than all other areas of the two bodies being affected by space.



Nature abhors a "vacuum".

Constant pressure => O <= Lesser pressure => 0 <=Constant pressure


The pressure of space begins to "push" the two bodies together (the beginning of intertia). This is the attempt to equalize the "pressure drop" between the two bodies. Normally this would cause space and time to warp around the bodies in order to accomodate their interference in the natural design of space to exert universal pressure at a constant, in all directions.



If left alone, the two bodies would eventually be pushed together leaving only one body left at the center, for space to universally push on from all directions.



Now simply add a third body, off center of the first two, and larger than the second one but smaller than the first.


O


=== > O <=> 0 <===

The momentum of the first two building towards eachother is now affected by a loss of "pressure" between all three (more towards one, less towards the other and so on. Since the pressure of space is equal on all three, but the size of mass is different on all three, and the momentum is different on all three, inertia becomes different for all three. Instead of a collision, we have a deviation from the first two bodies' original path due to the influence of the third, thus sending them into orbit around each other.

The build up of intertia combined with the deviation from original collision course due to the third body's presence, is enough to maintain 'orbit'.

How's that for an introduction?

v/r

Q

 

[Quahom1]

Here is a simple test you can try at home.

Sit alone in a room for a time, then have another person come in at a random time. As they quietly and slowly move towards you, note when you recognize their presence, AND what you felt...

Was it a pull? Or was it a pressure against your skin that notified you to their presence?

They don't have to move fast, or touch you, and you can be blind folded and ear muffled, and on a shock absorbing bed. You will still sense a pressure from the physical form of another person within your vicinity, not an attraction.

v/r

Q

 

[Quahom1]

One more thought.


When you pick up your coffee cup full of java each morning...are you pulling the cup towards your lips, or are you pushing against the force that is pushing your cup back to the table, in order for it to reach your lips? Are your muscles attached to bones in your arm pulling your arm up? Or are they pushing against each fiber within self, for force the bones to push against the force that is pushing against the cup (to stay forced on the table)?

Force is everything, not negative, but positive force. When we breathe, we are not sucking (pulling) air in to the lungs, we are creating a void in which positive pressured atmosphere rushes in.

Proof, is in the pudding. Ask an astronaut. Lose the integrity of the EVA suit, and lose the ability to have atmosphere rush in to the lungs (among other serious problems).

There is no such thing as cold...only an absence of heat.

There is no such thing as negative energy of any kind, only a lack of energy.

v/r

Q

 

[granni]

wal, lookee thar!! I Brian's done got all our lil goodies back!! Thank-you, I Brian (and, whatever Angels may have helped you).

my goodness Q, you've been quite busy thar, youngun! i hafta wait a mite, so's i kin figure out how to phrase (as best i can) what i wanna say. but, i've been readin what you've said. yep yep yep.



alrighty then........

the bodies in stasis is comprehendable. thank-you for that explanation.
but......(btw, 'but' does not always negate the previous sentence(s)).
the area of our discussion takes place in this thing called a universe. i concur that it jes hates a vacumm.
and, with it's expansion, everything is moving. ie., nothing is standing still. ever. wal, not til jes a moment before it's theorized regression/collapse.
therefore, those bodys are in motion. and when they're in motion close enough to each other...albiet not on the same trajectory (outward bound). how would the 'push' of your theory of gravity work to form a solar system? the same rules would have to apply to galaxys. with the exception of those with black holes at their center.

but, with even black holes: your theory would have items being pushed into, rather than pulled into.

everything moving (and in the universe, all things are moving) creates waves. those waves can and will push other things. even minutely pushing, much larger things. but, unless they're on a similar trajectory, with a similar velocity, they will not form a cooperative unit....ie., solar system. ex., moon, vrs passing comets/meteors.
in the graphic of the bullets in water, which shows the wave formed ahead of the movement.... that explains the 'knowing' of another's presence. they moved the air when they entered the room. that movement is felt by the observer. hence, knowing someone/thing has entered their space.

you're correct about the arm lifting the cup: pushing the cup off the table, and toward my lips. i tested it, as you'd suggested, and noted which muscles were used, and how. even tried it without the handle. required less force. of course, that's not the socially accepted mode for moving and picking up one's cup. which took me to the realization that i'd taught my babies the social way, when they'd already known the easy way. so, with this new understanding , i'm also a baddddd mama .

continuing with the 'push' of gravity:
we've been taught that gravity holds us to the earth, and is what keeps us from flying off (would solve the population problem). apparently, that's rudimentary. and, in error?

sooooo..... what's pushing, thereby keeping everything-on-the-surface....on the surface?

granni

 

[Quahom1]

wal, lookee thar!! I Brian's done got all our lil goodies back!! Thank-you, I Brian (and, whatever Angels may have helped you).

my goodness Q, you've been quite busy thar, youngun! i hafta wait a mite, so's i kin figure out how to phrase (as best i can) what i wanna say. but, i've been readin what you've said. yep yep yep.



alrighty then........

the bodies in stasis is comprehendable. thank-you for that explanation.
but......(btw, 'but' does not always negate the previous sentence(s)).
the area of our discussion takes place in this thing called a universe. i concur that it jes hates a vacumm.
and, with it's expansion, everything is moving. ie., nothing is standing still. ever. wal, not til jes a moment before it's theorized regression/collapse.
therefore, those bodys are in motion. and when they're in motion close enough to each other...albiet not on the same trajectory (outward bound). how would the 'push' of your theory of gravity work to form a solar system? the same rules would have to apply to galaxys. with the exception of those with black holes at their center.

but, with even black holes: your theory would have items being pushed into, rather than pulled into.

everything moving (and in the universe, all things are moving) creates waves. those waves can and will push other things. even minutely pushing, much larger things. but, unless they're on a similar trajectory, with a similar velocity, they will not form a cooperative unit....ie., solar system. ex., moon, vrs passing comets/meteors.
in the graphic of the bullets in water, which shows the wave formed ahead of the movement.... that explains the 'knowing' of another's presence. they moved the air when they entered the room. that movement is felt by the observer. hence, knowing someone/thing has entered their space.

you're correct about the arm lifting the cup: pushing the cup off the table, and toward my lips. i tested it, as you'd suggested, and noted which muscles were used, and how. even tried it without the handle. required less force. of course, that's not the socially accepted mode for moving and picking up one's cup. which took me to the realization that i'd taught my babies the social way, when they'd already known the easy way. so, with this new understanding , i'm also a baddddd mama .

continuing with the 'push' of gravity:
we've been taught that gravity holds us to the earth, and is what keeps us from flying off (would solve the population problem). apparently, that's rudimentary. and, in error?

sooooo..... what's pushing, thereby keeping everything-on-the-surface....on the surface?

granni

Space. Or rather the energy contained within space. That is what keeps us from 'flying off the planet'. Good title for a book I think. I also suspect you already know the answer, and are a teacher, and I am being tested, and that is quite fine with me

Space is so spatial (pardon the pun), and therefore realitively weak in it's spread out state. However (I tend to use however instead of but), it is constant. And it's affects on compressed bodies remains constant, regardless of other bodies (much larger in mass, or smaller), proximity. Some call it "superlight", some call it the dark matter of space, and some think this is all bull, and we are nuts to have this dialogue. Personally I don't care, I just like thinking outside the box. And I enjoy when someone joins me for the dance.

Again the proof is in the pudding. Ever notice how droplets of water video taped aboard the space shuttle react? If they are between the astronaut and the hull of the shuttle, they tend to remain in the middle. But release them away from the astronaut (above or below), they tend to move towards the astronaut, and the astrounaut tends to float towards the thickest part of the shuttle.

I opine that the greater the body, realative to the area, the more immediate the impact on the smaller body (as explained in my last post).

Granni, there is no such thing as "nothing". Only a lack of something to verying degrees. "Negative" is a construct of man's mind. It does not exist in nature. Whoa! That could mean that we are unnatural. We think in negative terms (or are capable of).

A black hole is a drain. It pulls nothing. However it receives everything that comes close to its proximity. It then focuses what it receives, which in turn creates a path for other parts to follow. The "weight" of space or "pressure" if you will is like water. It seeks it's own level.


BUT!.... the bible gives a clue....yes? As on Earth, so in Heaven...

Of course this is only my take on things. I could be way out in Andromeda's field.

v/r

Q

 

[granni]

ahh, medarlin Q.....

re: "they tend to move towards the astronaut, and the astrounaut tends to float towards the thickest part of the shuttle."

that would be 'attraction' (pull) vrs repulsion (push). but, jes in case: go ahead, and explain why the astronaut tends to float towards the thickest part of the shuttle.

*still thinkin on that black hole and things jes rushin on in...willingly*

btw... thanks fer bringin Sun Tsu into the discussion . that caused a big ol cheek puffin grin.

granni

 

[Quahom1]

ahh, medarlin Q.....

re: "they tend to move towards the astronaut, and the astrounaut tends to float towards the thickest part of the shuttle."

that would be 'attraction' (pull) vrs repulsion (push). but, jes in case: go ahead, and explain why the astronaut tends to float towards the thickest part of the shuttle.

*still thinkin on that black hole and things jes rushin on in...willingly*

btw... thanks fer bringin Sun Tsu into the discussion . that caused a big ol cheek puffin grin.

granni

Think big granni, BIG. All of space is not done pushing, and space wants to push us all into one neat package. Space is constant, it works where it will.

Small goes into big, big goes into bigger...and so on.

Think of what I said.

Oh, and I thank God I didn't bring Shin Tzou into the conversation. That would have been a mess.

v/r

Q

 

[granni]

ROFL!!! yer precious!

aye Q, i am thinkin big........

yes, the waves of matter (unseen) are pushing......

however, why toward the largest part of the shuttle? eh? why not the wing? why not toward the open door of the mid-bay? (the doors are open in my view)

granni

 

[Quahom1]

ROFL!!! yer precious!

aye Q, i am thinkin big........

yes, the waves of matter (unseen) are pushing......

however, why toward the largest part of the shuttle? eh? why not the wing? why not toward the open door of the mid-bay? (the doors are open in my view)

granni

Because Granni,

Space wants to push us into the greatest part of the center. Space is a "sheep dog"!.

water wants to flow to base level, air wants to rise or fall, CO2 wants to stay near the floor, hydrogen wants to rise forever...gravity wants to push everything into one thing.

These things are not sentient, but they have a strong mind about things. They will what they will. Done, now we react.

I think that we should get out of the weeds here Granni, the fishin' isn't so good.

v/r

Q