Social Circles of The Guides

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SonicWylde

Guest
Questions:

Do all guides know each other, or are they like humans who only know those they come in contact with? as well as if we assume they are like humans, do they grow, evolve, have castes, clans, social class systems, a governing body? Or are they eternal as is?

Also if we assume a social system do guides ever create relationships of love, convience, and in those relationships procreate?

another question to consider is... If we assume all planes are connected to each other in some way, do any change on any plane affect the other planes, and consequently if we are connected to our guides, do they change as we change?

These are some pondering points I have thought of... and still havent come to any real conclusion, so I thought maybe I would ask you all and see what the thoughts were...

Thank you for your time :)
 
SonicWylde said:
Questions:

Do all guides know each other, or are they like humans who only know those they come in contact with? as well as if we assume they are like humans, do they grow, evolve, have castes, clans, social class systems, a governing body? Or are they eternal as is?

The answers to your questions all depend on which spiritual or occult philosophy you are talking about, or which one you particularly follow. There is a multitude of different philosophies and systems, and there is a lot of disagreement about things. Not all occult philosophies even necessarily believe in anything called "guides" which I assume you mean to be noncorporeal helper entities who take an active role in human affairs.

Some occult systems, such as Theosophy, do tend to have rather elaborate theories worked out to describe and explain the way they think things are. If you explore a system like that, you're likely to find complex hierarchies of planes and entities with very specific roles identified for everything in existence. Other systems, though, are not as detailed in their theories (which doesn't mean they are any less accurate or correct) and might not even consider there to be anything like a spiritual realm which mortals can communicate with while alive.

If you're interested in reading material from a variety of cultures and philosophies, there is a huge amount available at http://www.sacred-texts.com/index.htm including Theosophical material as well as a wide range of other systems. (By the way, I'm Wiccan and not a Theosophist.)
 
I'm with bgruagach completely on this one. There is an ASTONISHING amount of stuff out there about the spirit world, guides, heavenly heirarchies, and so on. Much of it is crap. Much of it reflects the cultural, religious, occult, and personal beliefs of the person presenting it, and, hence, is heavily filtered. In my personal opinion, ALL information about the Great Beyond comes to us, one way or another, through subconscious symbols, and must, therefore, pass through the filters of both the person communicating the information and the person receiving the information.

In my tradition (I'm also Wiccan) it's possible to contact personal guides or spirit beings, but care must be taken, first, to make sure you're talking to who you THINK you're talking to, and . . . well, we have a saying about channeling the Dear Departed: "They're just dead, not perfect!" Some spirits appear to cling to beliefs, prejudices, and bias for quite a while after they pass over, and just because they say something doesn't necessarily mean it's so!

(As a personal aside: one of the most traumatic emotional experiences in my life was an encounter with--I thought--the ghost of my recently dead father in early 1999, who told me I would be dead before the year 2000. I'm still here--though, arguably, a major change in my worldview and life's path that occured that summer could be seen as a symbolic death. But how do you tell?)

Speaking here entirely on my own--based on my own experiences but not intended as gospel--

There appears to be a veritable menagerie of beings interested in us and in our development.

Some--my tradition calls them "Guardians"--appear to be a part of our own soul energy remaining in a higher world. Some call this the "higher self" or the "divine self." This may also be the "guardian angel" of many traditions. Think of it as you, but watching things from a spirit-world perspective and knowing all the answers . . . but unable to more than nudge your incarnate self. The point is that the poor-earth-bound fellow has got to figure things out on his own, with minimum interference form his know-it-all higher self.

Others we know as "guides." Some of these appear to have been incarnate humans in the past, but have "graduated," so to speak. The majority appear never to have been human. It appears, in many traditions, at least, that each of us has a number of guides covering different aspects of our lives, but that we tend to have one "master guide" who oversees the whole shebang.

It's possible to get information from the guardians, though this usually comes as a flash of inspiration, or a feeling, or sometimes in dreams. It's possible to get information from guides via channeling or in a trance, but those mental filters of ours tend to distort what comes through, and all such information needs to be carefully screened, interpreted, and taken with a few billion grains of salt.

All information I've seen regarding heirarchies in spiritual realms I treat as suspect; there always seems to be a lot of human politics and cultural limitations wrapped up in those metaworldviews.

I've never seen anything indicating procreation among guides. The whole question of where spirits come from--are they created along the way, or are they all co-eternal with the same divine source?--is one of THE big occult mysteries. While spiritual beings appear to feel emotions like love, however, I've never heard anything about them having families. If anything, quite the opposite: there's a line in the Bible about angels "neither giving nor being given in marriage." Take that or not, as you wish!

And take what I say here with great quantities of sodium chloride as well. My experiences are my own, and for that very reason will be wildly different from the experience of anyone else!
 
Kindest Regards, WHKeith!
Much of it reflects the cultural, religious, occult, and personal beliefs of the person presenting it, and, hence, is heavily filtered. In my personal opinion, ALL information about the Great Beyond comes to us, one way or another, through subconscious symbols, and must, therefore, pass through the filters of both the person communicating the information and the person receiving the information.


It's possible to get information from the guardians, though this usually comes as a flash of inspiration, or a feeling, or sometimes in dreams.


"I like Vajradhara's idea. There've been some intriguing studies that show we react on a purely subconscious/unconscious level to sensory input a fraction of a second *before* that input exists--just before a disturbing photograph is flashed on a screen in front of us, for instance. Some have speculated that this has to do with collapsing waveforms, as Vaj suggests--that the waves travel through time, both forward and backward."

Perhaps this is a little off topic, but it seems to me related. Forgive me pulling a few of your quotes, including one from elsewhere. If I understand what you have said here compared with what was expressed elsewhere concerning "deja vu", am I to presume that my precognitive dreams are not expressly what is considered "deja vu?" Am I to understand that I am being "instructed" by some form of spirit guide? :confused: I promise, this is not asked in any form of antagonistic manner. These are meant as sincere questions,:), asked of somebody whose thoughts I have grown to appreciate. I would also be interested in your view as to whether matter and spirit could be considered different "expressions" of energy in accord with quantum theory, but this question is posed on the Stephen J Gould page so that it would not distract from here.

If my precognitive dreams are not deja vu, then please explain to me, if you would be so kind, just what deja vu is actually considered to be? Not the cause, the experience. I am trying to understand why the concept seems to be opposed to my understanding of my dreams. I can understand that my dreams are filtered through the experiences and culture of my reality, that to me would seem common sense, because my dreams do have that connotation. Even my non-sensical pre-cognitive dreams are constructed around symbols that are relevant to me.

As to a spirit guide providing information, wouldn't one have to ask or seek, or otherwise make oneself open and receptive? This is of import to me, because I specifically do not seek any such information, believing that if I am to know, it will be made known in its proper time. My rationale being that in order to stay within the bounds of the universal order, I prefer not to consciously attempt to manipulate it. Perhaps a naive and passive approach, but it seems so far to work well enough for me.
 
Guide for small things

Spiritual guides, occult or otherwise, and of quasi established religions and fringe groups, the rule is that don't let them guide you except in small things like whether you should wear that or this necktie.

If you let them dictate your movements further and further into big things, one day you will end up in jail for arson or assassination, like that guy who claimed that God or some guide told him to kill that prime minister, is it of Finland or Sweden?

Pretty smart also, if you want to save yourself from criminal liability, spiritual guide can be your defense. But then you will have to be confined in a psychopathic hospitality afterwards, which is easy to get out of as soon as you get certified psychiatrists to spring you out.

OK, guides are all right for small things like the necktie you are to wear; for bigger things don't use them unless you have to obtain a defense on the plea of insanity from guide's prompting -- when you have to do some acts defined in the code as criminal.

That is why the Catholic Church never tires of telling people to steer clear of spiritual guides of the esoteric kinds, just pray for guidance and follow your common sense. If you don't have any, seek the counsel of experienced and wiser men.

Susma Rio Sep
 
Kindest Regards, Susma,
Susma Rio Sep said:
Spiritual guides, occult or otherwise, and of quasi established religions and fringe groups, the rule is that don't let them guide you except in small things like whether you should wear that or this necktie.

If you let them dictate your movements further and further into big things, one day you will end up in jail for arson or assassination, like that guy who claimed that God or some guide told him to kill that prime minister, is it of Finland or Sweden?

Pretty smart also, if you want to save yourself from criminal liability, spiritual guide can be your defense. But then you will have to be confined in a psychopathic hospitality afterwards, which is easy to get out of as soon as you get certified psychiatrists to spring you out.

OK, guides are all right for small things like the necktie you are to wear; for bigger things don't use them unless you have to obtain a defense on the plea of insanity from guide's prompting -- when you have to do some acts defined in the code as criminal.

That is why the Catholic Church never tires of telling people to steer clear of spiritual guides of the esoteric kinds, just pray for guidance and follow your common sense. If you don't have any, seek the counsel of experienced and wiser men.

Susma Rio Sep

Yes, I am inclined to agree with you. My question to WHKeith pertains far more to my pre-cognitive dreams/deja vu, and it is in that vein that I am asking. I will repeat, for your benefit, that I do not seek these things. They do, however, seek me. In Christian terms, is this my guardian angel? Or is it the impact and effect of quantum physics? I am seeking an opinion, realizing fully that the nature of the elements involved preclude full and complete "knowledge."
 
Guides for gainful ends

juantoo3 said:
Kindest Regards, Susma,


Yes, I am inclined to agree with you. My question to WHKeith pertains far more to my pre-cognitive dreams/deja vu, and it is in that vein that I am asking. I will repeat, for your benefit, that I do not seek these things. They do, however, seek me. In Christian terms, is this my guardian angel? Or is it the impact and effect of quantum physics? I am seeking an opinion, realizing fully that the nature of the elements involved preclude full and complete "knowledge."

Dear Juan, please do to see offense with what I am going to say here:

You mean that you do experience pre-cognitive dreams and deja vu sightings. I envy you, because I have been trying to master this kind of a skill, hoping that it might serve for my entertainment on the safe side, or for my gainful purpose on the more serious side.

What I would really appreciate is whether your 'gifts' if I may call them are in those directions, and whether you can train others to acquire and use them. Or do they just happen to you and you can't control them for any useful purposes, like entertainment and yes to make money -- even at the risk of being embarrassingly pecuniarly-minded; but then as I always tell people there is no such things as too much money. Anyway, the undersigned can always use more, to spare for charity if not for one's own self-indulgence.

My own impression is that such pre-cognitive or deja-vue if they be convincing experience appear not to be in the service of beneficial purposes for mundane daily life and work.

I think the Catholic padre will right away dismiss any guardian angel as the instrument of your pre-cognitive and deja-vu encounters. More likely quantum physics if one must choose an alternative. In which case then science must be able to master it and control it one day, or at least to know its working and take advantage of such a knowledge.

Susma Rio Sep
 
Susma, dear friend,

I don't want to highjack this thread, I am merely seeking the opinion in a specific matter from an individual, and then I can be on my way.

This began on another thread, and I cannot help but think my comment there may have been misdirected or misspoken. This subject seemed to correlate with the other. I will answer your questions on that thread, OK?
 
WHK, are you serious?

Are you serious, WHK, with your encounters with spirit guides or guardians? You say:

And take what I say here with great quantities of sodium chloride as well. My experiences are my own, and for that very reason will be wildly different from the experience of anyone else!

For me, what I find befuddling is that we who are flesh and blood and can be face to face in contact with each other are having troubles already understanding each other, and you guys have to go and experience encounters with 'psychic' or spirit guides and guardians, who you also tell us not to take very seriously, because just so that they are such is no voucher for their reliability or sincerity or intelligence. Why bother with them, then?

Anyway, since you guys do have the experience and who can say you don't, since they can't see inside your mind; so let's agree that you do have such encounters.

Now, suppose you guys get together to make a systematic study of your encounters, then present them to the public, not for fantasy appeal; but to point out how these spirit guides or guards can be helpful or useful for our mundane problems like environmental pollution, world hunger, violence and war. Ok, just a very simple problem and very current, how to stop spam.

Bill Gates promises to overcome spam in two years. Knowing this guy as we have witnessed from the captive he has made of us with his Windows, by manipulative business moves, it would be a surprise if in two years time no one can send an email to many receivers with one click, without paying him a fee.

Back to spirit guides and guardians, it is about time you guys really put these entities to good ends for the benefit of mankind.

Susma Rio Sep
 
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