Shamballa and the Father's House

[taijasi]

Shamballa and The Father’s House – An Esoteric Perspective

​

If what I am seeking to do here seems ambitious, then perhaps it is so. I do apologize in advance for the length, so if you want the highlights, just read the summary, then skip down to The Esoteric Focus and Closing. To demonstrate that I did not hatch this out of an egg I found in my back yard, I have included a basis for all that I say – from the exoteric Buddhist, Hindu, and Judeo-Christian Traditions.​

Aside from three supporting quotations, the writing, the presentation, the belief and the understanding is my own. I would invite Nick to comment on what he thinks would be useful to highlight, or (for anyone) to correct any errors I have made … as well as to help direct any resultant discussion. I’m posting this, in part, in response to the assertions from Thomas specifically that HPB fabricated the esoteric or Theosophical teachings regarding Shamballa …though in light of the Wesak Festival, I offer this post and thread in the Spirit of Service.

Summary


Theosophy and Esotericism, since the 19th and 20th Centuries, have presented us with the idea of a Divine Being (`God’) Who openly invites our study and investigation. We are requested to introspect, or look into (as Krishnamurti was fond of saying) our own, highest nature – our Spiritual Being, or Essence – and be willing to bravely & enthusiastically explore what we find. And as we aspire to know our own innermost nature, so too does Deity allow for us to "Know Him." This may seem slightly anthropomorphic for Theosophists and Esotericists, yet Theosophy speaks of this in terms of the Plan, as part of God’s very Purpose in being here, which very much so includes our Purpose, in turn, as Children of the Most High God, within the Divine Creation.

In light of the Wesak Festival which has just occurred in both the exoteric Hindu & Buddhist tradtions, as well as the esoteric, I think a look at the Buddhist teaching on Shambhala and Kalachakra might be useful. A connection will then become possible with the Western Judeo-Christian traditions, and it may become apparent why Theosophists and Esotericists regard these different motifs as communicating essentially the same, inner Truth.

The Eastern Traditions


Looking for a moment to the familiar, exoteric Buddhist tradition, I can do no better than to quote from the Wikipedia summary on Kalachakra for a bit of background:

Kālachakra (Tibetan: dus-kyi 'khor-lo) is a term used in Tantric Buddhism that means "time-wheel" or "time-cycles". It refers both to a Tantric deity (Tib. yidam) of Vajrayana Buddhism and to the philosophies and meditation practices contained within the Kalachakra Tantra and its many commentaries. Some Buddhist masters assert that Kalachakra is the most advanced form of Vajrayana practice; it certainly is one of the most complex systems within tantric Buddhism.​

The Kalachakra tradition revolves around the concept of time and cycles: from the cycles of the planets, to the cycles of human breathing, it teaches the practice of controlling the most subtle energies within one's body on the path to enlightenment. The Kalachakra deity represents a Buddha and thus omniscience. Since Kalachakra is time and everything is under the influence of time, he knows all. Similarly, the wheel is without beginning or end. [emphases are mine]​

Clearly then, although exoteric Buddhism does not usually speak of a Deity, the tantric tradition of Kalachakra does. Without going into greater detail, I will quote only once more from Wikipedia, for a working Tibetan Buddhist understanding of Shambhala:

In Tibetan Buddhist tradition, Shambhala (also spelled Shambala or Shamballa) is a mystical kingdom hidden somewhere beyond the snowpeaks of the Himalayas. It is mentioned in various ancient texts, including the Kalachakra Tantra and the ancient texts of the Zhang Zhung culture which pre-dated Tibetan Buddhism in western Tibet. The Bön scriptures speak of a closely-related land called Olmolungring.​

Now we could discuss the ideas of Shamballa, and of Kalachakra at great length, but I have included this background because it is helpful, even vital, in understanding why Theosophists and Esotericists have the understanding that they do.

The only correlation I will make at this time, is that esoterically, the relationship between the `Deity’ Kalachakra and the mystical `Kingdom’ of Shambhala, is that between an entity, and that entity's highest head center, or Crown chakra. For more information on the Seven Energy Centers (chakras) in a human being, google around, consult Wikipedia, or dive into the ancient Brahmanic or Buddhist source materials, if you feel brave.

The Western Traditions

Now for another tradition: the Judeo-Christian. In both the Christian and the Hebraic tradition there is a phrase, an expression or a figure of speech that is often used in describing Humanity’s relationship to the Divine. It is – `the Father’s House.’


I would quote from Philo Judeaus, Migration, 3-4:

Now the Word is our "father's house"; (father), because the mind is our "father," sowing into each of our parts its own powers and distributing their works, while remaining himself in charge and in control of all. And the Word is the "house" in which (the mind) lives, removed from the rest of the household. The Word is the mind's house, just as the hearth is man's...​

And do not marvel if (Moses) has called the Word the mind's house in man. For he even says that God, the Mind of the whole (world), has the Word as his own "house"... (Gen 28:17). [again, emphases mine]​

When the Christian speaks of the Father’s House in common parlance, we envision a location (as perhaps a Mighty Palace) which has "room" within it, metaphorically or symbolically speaking, for many inhabitants. And if we think in terms of relationship, then we might also say that for God – to Whom all things are possible – the whole of Humanity, in its entirety, would easily find room within the Father’s House, with plenty left over for say … the Angels, our animals friends, and in fact, the Spirit of all of Creation.

Again, consider the earliest commentary of Philo along these lines, for clarity.

Esotericism, Bridging East and West

The presentation that we find in the teachings of Theosophy and Esotericism since the 19th Century, is of a Shamballa which effectively unites, or bridges these several understandings, or approaches to, Humanity’s relationship with the greatest and deepest of spiritual verities.

Drawing also from some of the most ancient religious teachings that exist, the Vedic, it is shown that our relationship can be impersonally considered … as the entire Human Kingdom, relating to a much more advanced Progression on the evolutionary spiral. [Elsewhere, these (Beings) have been spoken of as the Kumaras, even representing Elohim.]

Currently, we can speak of these (Kingdoms), in terms of the Seven Chakras, as the throat (or creative) center …and the Head (or inwardly directing, controlling) Center – for always Creation proceeds according to `the Divine Will.’

Yet the key factor in this picture, or equation, is the Free Will which Christianity has come to emphasize. Humanity does indeed have choice in how it will respond to the potent, purely-powerful `Shambhala-Force’ emanating from the Father’s House.

The Esoteric Focus

The form that this choice takes, in terms of how we use our Free Will, can be summed up in one word by Theosophists and Christians alike – even by Buddhists, Hindus and all people of Goodwill. The choice, the crux of the matter, is Love. And, defined in terms of Humanity’s relationships, person to person and group to group, we can also use the term Brotherhood.

Here, the Head Center, Shamballa, is related to (or brought into relationship with) the Creative Throat Center of the planet, Humanity … only by virtue of the activity of a third center, the Heart.

Theosophists and Esotericists call this the Spiritual Hierarchy of the Planet, the Lodge of Masters, or `Inner Government.’ Christ, the Buddha, Sri Krishna, and even earlier world saviors are all understood to emanate – according to Divine Will (God’s Instruction) – from this, the Heart Chakra of our planet. [At the same time, it can be noted that They also express this Divine, Loving Energy in its purest, pristine form on the planet ...]

From Humanity’s perspective, we speak of Deity as sending forth the Divine Saviors, yet another important aspect of our relationship to God is the process of Invocation, or literally calling forth, and thus evoking, a response from `the Father’s House.’ This, the spiritual aspirants of all traditions have done throughout the ages, and always there has been a response … as it is Humanity’s need to receive this kind of Divine Guidance during this stage of our evolution.

It is within the Heart, Hierarchy, or the 2nd Divine Center of the planet, where the Father’s Will, in Shamballa, can safely meet with ours – the 3rd and Creative Center (chakra) in the being of our Planetary Logos (`God,’ in Whom we live, and move, and have our being – as it is put Biblically).

Some Theosophists speak in terms of the Christ-Nature, or the Buddha-Nature, these terms being used interchangeably in reference to the Bodhichitta which is spoken of in exoteric Buddhist teachings, plain and simple. Technically, we call this the Buddhic Principle, which joins highest Spirit (Atma) with the Principle of Consciousness that makes us decidedly human (Manas, or mind, creative intelligence). But Christ-Nature has a simpler ring to it, and it conveys the essential idea in terms that relate better to Christian theology.

Closing

The religious traditions of East and West, from Buddhism & Hinduism to Christianity, Judaism and Islam, seem in some ways widely divergent, and even unresolvable in terms of their varying theologies or ideologies. And yet, present within each of these traditions is the notion that Humanity has a long history of Divine Invocation – and evocation … or relationship, with spiritual powers and presences greater than ourselves.

The Theosophical and Esoteric traditions of the past one and a quarter centuries have sought to show, not that exoteric religions are artificially, or superficially distinct, but that distinctions have arisen, over time, in accordance with Divine Intention, because there is a Divine Plan underlying ALL spiritual, material, and psychic (or psychological) evolution on Planet Earth.

Further, the esoteric tradition maintains that all of Cosmos manifests this Divine Order, such that our tiny Solar System, and thus our rather ordinary Planetary System, nonetheless mirror the Greater, Macrocosmic Majesty … even into the life of every human being, and into the Heart of the tiniest Atom.

Teachings regarding the `mythical Kingdom of Shambhala,’ just as the Christian metaphor of `the Father’s House,’ can both be understood in terms of Humanity’s efforts – our greatest spiritual Aspirations – to know ourselves, and to know the Divine, and through the conscious, intentional, intelligent and above-all Loving choice … to see to it that the will of the Greater, is worked out via the actions of the lesser – even the least.

NAMASKAR … Peace

 

[Nick the Pilot]

Andrew,

Are you saying the Earth (or the guardian-spirit of the Earth) has chakras? Are you drawing a comparison between the physical location of Shamballah on Earth, and one of the Earth's chakras?

 

[taijasi]

Andrew,

Are you saying the Earth (or the guardian-spirit of the Earth) has chakras? Are you drawing a comparison between the physical location of Shamballah on Earth, and one of the Earth's chakras?

I wondered if someone might catch that connection ...

The Planetary Logos, yes. I mentioned on another thread that I believe in "the Spirit of the Earth," yet that such a being is really a vast, involutionary Deva-Life ... but the "Earth elemental," in the same sense that every human being - prior to the stage of Initiate - also has a `physical elemental.' This is, in short, what drives us to want to eat, sleep, procreate, etc. And technically, following the 1st Initiation (the `Birth' of the Christ within the cave of the heart) ... the physical elemental is no longer a factor.

As for the Planetary Logos, just as a human Individual is a threefold Soul entity, residing within a threefold, personality vehicle (mind, emotional-astral body, physical body), so too the Planetary Logos has a similar constitution. Within human beings, every vehicle is said to have chakras, from the etheric (the ensouling vehicle of the physical body of flesh & blood), to the astral, to the mental ... and even the Spiritual.

Likewise, then, the entire planet Earth - as the physical body of the Planetary Logos, has Seven Chakras. And these correspond to the Kingdoms of Life on our planet, as follows:

Shamballa - Planetary Head Center - Divine WILL (Purpose of God)
Spiritual Hierarchy - Planetary Heart Center - Divine Love-Wisdom (Love of God, The PLAN)
Humanity - Planetary Throat Center - Divine Intelligence (Creativity, God's Purpose worked out on Earth)
Animal Kingdom - Planetary solar plexus center - planetary "emotional chakra"
Vegetable Kingdom - Planetary sacral center - planetary "vital center" (lower creativity)
Mineral Kingdom - Planetary basal center - planetary "root chakra" (seat of spiritual energies)

The only chakra that's not accounted for here, is the Ajna, or "third eye" center. And that is a center (in God's physical being) which is only beginning to come into outward activity ...

It is referred to as the New Group of World Servers (NGWS) in the Tibetan Master's teachings, via Alice Bailey. The NGWS consists of disciples, esoteric students, and all people of GOODWILL, found ANYwhere upon the globe, belonging to any race, any nation, any culture, and of any ideology, religion or creed (or none). So long as the effort is toward Service, and the motivations of such people are altruistic, it is safe to say they help form part of the increasing activity of the Ajna - third eye - center at this time.

And this makes all the sense in the world, since we know that this is the chakra of inner, Spiritual Vision, wherein the Ideals, Goals and Purpose of the Divine Will of God (Shamballa) and the Love-Wisdom of God (Hierarcy) ... are intuited, sensed, and interpreted, as well as put into practice, for the 3rd Major, Creative Center in the body Logoic - Humanity, the `throat center.'

Humanity is dependent on the NGWS, just as the NGWS, in turn, is still greatly dependent upon Hierarchy (Christ and the Masters) to mediate the Divine Purpose into expression, via the PLAN. The only adjustment to this process has come since the days of WWII, and has occurred specifically in 1975 and 2000 (and every 25 years hence), as the Shamballa force now makes direct contact with Humanity, passing to us even without the Hieararchy's 100% moderation, or mediation (which has been the case ALWAYS in our Earth's history, until now).

The results of the increased Shamballa force, via these direct impacts? Somewhat incredible, even along destructive lines, yet only inasmuch as the way is being prepared for the greater manifestation of Divine Purpose. At the Wesak Festivals each year, a little more of that Purpose is released and realized, being steered by, and provided for/to us, by the Buddha, Christ and Masters - yet also reaching Humanity as never before, and with results which ... only time will tell.

Can we put the energies released to Creative, positive use ... and move forward with the Divine Plan? Not to do so might very well mean the end of Humanity's evolution upon this planet, in this cycle. I personally believe that this remains a distinct possibility (dire as this may sound) ... yet I have hope, and Faith, in Humanity - and in the Christ within us.

 

[Nick the Pilot]

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Andrew,

Humanity is one of the chakras of the guardian-spirit of Earth? I think that is stretching it a bit. I would consider this one of the differences between Theosophy and AAB.

I have always considered the Theosophical teaching of Elementals to be interesting, because it is Theosophy's answer to the Christian teaching of Satan tempting us to do things.

"...all people of GOODWILL, found ANYwhere upon the globe, belonging to any race, any nation, any culture, and of any ideology, religion or creed (or none). So long as the effort is toward Service, and the motivations of such people are altruistic...."

--> I like this, because it matches a key Theosophical teaching -- that all good religious people, whether they are Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, etc., will get to Heaven. It does not matter which religion they belong to at all.

I appreciate your references to "the Christ within us", but I would say it is not a phrase HPB used, except when trying to explain Theosophy to Christians. I am not sure there is a position entitiled Christ in the Theosophical Hierarchy.

The other side of the coin is, of course, that members of all religions -- including Christians -- are invited to take a look at Theosophy, and see how Theosophical teachings reinforce their own Christianity.

 

[Nick the Pilot]

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Andrew,

I noticed you used the term "Father's House" in the title of this thread. Are you using the term Father's House to refer to the Earth ?

Theosophy usually refers to the Father's House as the Atman -- what Christians would refer to as the soul. When Jesus said, "Our Father, who art in Heaven," he was referring to our Atman or Higher Self, which does not suffer from a sense of separateness like we do. Theosophy says our job is to re-unite with our Atman (our "soul which is in Heaven").

Is that how you see it?

 

[Francis king]

thought it was spelt- shambala... ?

 

[taijasi]

thought it was spelt- shambala... ?

Wiki gives several spellings, and Three Dog Night uses `Shambhala.' I think `Shamballa' will be easier, as it loses the extra `h' ... and maybe the 2nd `l' will go away too, time (as you suggest, or as you spell it).

I noticed you used the term "Father's House" in the title of this thread. Are you using the term Father's House to refer to the Earth ?

No, I mean it for Shamballa; as a direct equivalent. I believe it is the Planetary Head Center, or chakra, within the Earth Logos.

Theosophy usually refers to the Father's House as the Atman -- what Christians would refer to as the soul. When Jesus said, "Our Father, who art in Heaven," he was referring to our Atman or Higher Self

My own belief is that Jesus meant `the Monad,' which resides - in terms of its own world - one plane beyond the Atmic, or Nirvanic. It's sometimes just called `the Monadic,' though it's also termed the aupapaduka (or `parentless') in Hinduism. It is the planet "between" the Adi, first, or Logoic world ... and the world of Nirvana & Atma.

The distinction between Atma(n) and the Monad(ic) may be subtle, but the Atma is actually the expression of one of the Monad's triple Aspects, and thus a vehicle of sorts. It still represents a phase or degree of manifestation of the Monad. I think that to return to the Father means to go beyond the Atmic ... thus the Tathagata (Buddha) is the "gone-beyond one," in Maha-PARA-Nirvana (which exotericism still tries to make a place, or even a state of utter non-activity, which is by no means the esoteric understanding).

Humanity is one of the chakras of the guardian-spirit of Earth?

I think that's about right. I believe we form the throat center, the chakra of Creativity - in the higher sense - in the physical body of the Planetary Logos. That distinction is important. The entire, sevenfold "plane system" of Theosophy, equates to the physical expression only of the Logoi - Planetary and Solar. I think this is an important point. Also consider, the higher creative center only comes into gradual functioning, as the lower creative center, the sacral, is directed to that purpose. A similar transference occurs from solar plexus to heart. In terms of the planetary chakra correspondences (to a human being), this merits pondering ...

I appreciate your references to "the Christ within us", but I would say it is not a phrase HPB used, except when trying to explain Theosophy to Christians. I am not sure there is a position entitiled Christ in the Theosophical Hierarchy.

Actually, HPB talked about the Christ a great deal. She does so in `Isis Unveiled,' telling us that `christos' is a term that describes the earlier candidate for Initiation - chrestos - once that candidate has passed, and taken the higher, Initiations.

She also refers to a man's `Inner God,' whose "middle" principle, the Buddhic, could as easily be described as the `Christ' principle. We even use the compound expression, `Love-Wisdom' in referring to the 2nd Ray quality, or to the 2nd Aspect as it manifests within a human being. St. Paul may have given us the more popular "Christ within" ... but I believe this equates, quite directly, with `the Soul' in terms of esotericism.

It is especially a useful expression as it refers more to the true Soul of Humanity, which is ONE within the Buddhic world, rather than the Individual, Manasic & ultimately ahamkaric Soul ... the reincarnating `Ego' of Theosophy. That Soul, temporarily permanent as it may be, is the Agnishvatta, or Solar Angel, the `Guardian Spirit' ... whose stay with us will not extend past the 4th Initiation. If we're not careful, we can reify this egoic principle in the mental world into becoming little more than a "spiritual ego" - yet how is this really different than confusing our spiritual identity with that provided for us by modern psychology, using the term `ego' in referring to the personality?

So, our Spiritual Triad is Atma-Buddhi-Manas, being the reflection, or "Incarnation" (literally it is so, we are told) of the Monad. And this, triple-Aspected Soul (whose consciousness knows no separation or isolation), focuses itself within the world of "higher" mind as the Solar Lotus - within the Karana Sarira (or Causal `Body' - though here we are in the ARUPA world, so "body" is rather a misleading expression ... vehicle would be more appropriate).

And finally, it is our Soul, the entirety of the Triad, yes, but focussing expressly through the Lotus, whose tiniest fragment animates this thing we walk around in called, "me" and "you," the personality. Even so, only a sliver appears in the mirror ... and in esoteric teachings, the flesh and blood are not a `princple' of consciousness at all (!), but only a vehicle, or upadhi.

~+~+~+~+~+~+~

As for Alice Bailey's presentation, some have accused her of adapting Theosophy to a Western, Christian world. I can go with that, but not with the idea that she changed anything. I believe her teacher to be one and the same as HPB's, although, like HPB, her own Master was not DK. In the one case, Alice writes for DK, her own Master being KH, while HPB was Morya's student, yet was similarly, pledged to DK ("loaned," so to speak) ... for the services she rendered.

Nicholas Weeks seems to be a rather shallow, foolish man, imo. I have no patience for his writings, nor for those of K. Paul Johnson. I certainly can appreciate the `Devil's Advocate' point of view, and the need for a healthy skepticism. But I'm afraid we enter upon a slippery slope when we take too fondly to such drivel. And before you know it, there ARE NO Mahatamas, and poor deluded HPB really was just some old kook, with a trick up her sleeve, and no greater ambition than to dupe the foolish, Western world.

Alice built upon all that HPB had started. You know the saddest part? I think it's that Theosophists, and students of AAB, and even just students of AAB and those of Helena Roerich's `Agni Yoga,' and so on, love to argue. Like a bunch of Christian Fundamentalists, sitting around with Catholics, or Protestants, or anyone else they can get their hands on ... esotericists, too, just sometimes love to argue.

And I can't figure it out? Is it the same motivations, and sometimes nothing more than a desire to be "right?" I can go with that, because I understand it, and relate to it all to well!

But when I watch our Thomases, and our bananabrains, who will stop at nothing to defend their Catholicism and their Judaism, I feel I have an opportunity to learn an important lesson (or two, or eight). I get a good chance to step back, even twice, and ask myself, Why are these men (and women) arguing so vehemently - or I might just say passionately - for their "cause?"

And, whether I say I am a Theosophist, or an esotericist, or a whatever, I know I am no Catholic, nor a follower of the Jewish tradition, etc. And I get a chance to ask myself, why this, why not that, why do I believe, so strongly & passionately, as I do ... in x, y & z?

So, before I turn this into pure editorial and forget our purpose, I'll leave it at that, and go forth to contemplate these things, and enjoy my day. I have plenty of food for thought ...

Namaskar,

~andrew

 

[Nick the Pilot]

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Andrew,

I have seen these spellings.

Shambala
Shamballa
Shamballah
Shambhala

By the way, I believe Blavatsky uses 12 different spellings for Kaballa.

"Theosophy usually refers to the Father's House as the Atman --> My own belief is that Jesus meant `the Monad,' which resides - in terms of its own world - one plane beyond the Atmic, or Nirvanic. "

--> I used to think the Monad was its own vehicle residing on the Anupapadaka (not Anupadaka) Plane, because I believe that is what Leadbeater teaches. However, Geoffrey Barborka (in his great book The Divine Plan) pointed out the Monad is the Atma-Buddhi. Here is HPB:

"The "Monad" is the combination of the last two "principles" in man, the 6th [Buddhi] and the 7th [Atma]...." (SD vol 1 p 178)

Regarding the Anupapadaka Plane, I am reminded of Annie Besant's writings, where she says we can nothing of the Adi and Anupapadaka Planes during this universe cycle.

You said,

"The distinction between Atma(n) and the Monad(ic) may be subtle, but the Atma is actually the expression of one of the Monad's triple Aspects, and thus a vehicle of sorts. It still represents a phase or degree of manifestation of the Monad."

--> Do you have quotes for this?

"I think that to return to the Father means to go beyond the Atmic ..."

--> In the long run, I would agree. But our short-term task seems to be merely aiming for consciousness on the Atmic/Nirvanic Plane. Imagining us being conscious on an even higher plane seems almost imaginable — which is what I think Besant was talking about.

As you remember , Stanzas of Dzyan Book 1 Stanza 7 Sloka 6 says,

"From the first-born the thread between the Silent Watcher and his shadow becomes more strong and radiant with every change [reincarnation]."

According to Barborka, the Silent Watcher is the Monad, or Atma-Buddhi, which is "Our Father which art in Heaven." I think Blavatsky focuses us on this level, because higher levels seems almost impossible for us to comprehend.

Let's take a look at the famous "Our Father which art in Heaven" SD quote.

"...the "Watcher" and his "Shadows" -- the latter numbering as many as there are re-incarnations for the monad -- are one. The Watcher, or the divine prototype, is at the upper rung of the ladder of being; the shadow, at the lower. Withal, the Monad of every living being, unless his moral turpitude breaks the connection and runs loose and "astray into the lunar path" -- to use the Occult expression -- is an individual Dhyan Chohan, distinct from others, a kind of spiritual individuality of its own, during one special Manvantara. Its Primary, the Spirit (Atman) is one, of course, with Paramatma (the one Universal Spirit), but the vehicle (Vahan) it is enshrined in, the Buddhi, is part and parcel of that Dhyan-Chohanic Essence; and it is in this that lies the mystery of that ubiquity, which was discussed a few pages back. "My Father, that is in Heaven, and I -- are one," -- says the Christian Scripture; in this, at any rate, it is the faithful echo of the esoteric tenet." (SD vol 1 p 265)

--> The Watcher is the Monad (Atma-Buddhi) (The Father) and the Shadow is our string of reincarnations.

You said,

"...HPB talked about the Christ a great deal. She does so in `Isis Unveiled,' telling us that `christos' is a term that describes the earlier candidate for Initiation - chrestos - once that candidate has passed, and taken the higher, Initiations.... She also refers to a man's `Inner God,' whose "middle" principle, the Buddhic, could as easily be described as the `Christ' principle."

--> Let's take a look.

"...whether we call it an avatar, or a King Messiah, or a permutation of Divine Spirit, Logos, Christos, it is all one and the same thing." (IU vol 1 p 291)

"...it is the acceptation of this doctrine which caused the Gnostics to maintain that Jesus was a man overshadowed by the Christos or Messenger of Life...." (IU vol 2 p 154)

"...the Greek Christos bears several meanings, as anointed (pure oil, chrism) and others. In all languages, though the synonym of the word means pure or sacred essence, it is the first emanation of the invisible Godhead, manifesting itself tangibly in spirit." (IU vol 2 p 158)

--> The above quote indicates the Christos is the Universal Mind of Sloka i-3-7.

"Thus, Christos, as a unity, is but an abstraction: a general idea representing the collective aggregation of the numberless spirit-entities, which are the direct emanations of the infinite, invisible, incomprehensible FIRST CAUSE -- the individual spirits of men, erroneously called the souls." (IU vol 2 p 159)

--> The above quote indicates the Christos is collectively all the Monads in the universe, which, again, is the Universal Mind of Sloka i-3-7.

"...which will emanate Christos, the very essence of the Father Spirit." (IU vol 2 p 171)

--> This also indicates the Christos is the Universal Mind of Sloka i-3-7.

"...AEbel Zivo is the revealed Logos, Christos...." (IU vol 2 p 174)

--> The above quote indicates the Christos is the Logos, or Universal Mind.

"...Christos (the son and emanation of the "Celestial Virgin")...." (IU vol 2 p 185)

--> The above quote indicates the Christos is the Son as it emanates from Mulaprakriti.

"In the Kabala the "Son" of the concealed Father who dwells in light and glory, is the "Anointed," the Seir-Anpin, who unites in himself all the Sephiroth, he is Christos, or the Heavenly man." (IU vol 2 p 230)

--> The above quote indicates the Christos is the Universal Mind.

You said,

"She also refers to a man's `Inner God,' whose "middle" principle, the Buddhic, could as easily be described as the `Christ' principle."

--> I see no reference to Christos or Christ in Isis Unveiled that cross-references the Buddhic Principle as the Christ Principle. (Maybe I just can't find it. Do you have a page number?)

"St. Paul may have given us the more popular "Christ within" ... but I believe this equates, quite directly, with `the Soul' in terms of esotericism."

--> This gets into Soul vs. Spirit as defined in The Secret Doctrine.

"...the reincarnating `Ego' of Theosophy ... whose stay with us will not extend past the 4th Initiation."

--> I would say, rather, the Soul refers to Buddhi. It seems to me the Reincarnating Ego is still a part of every 5th Initiated Adept who has forsaken Nirvana.

"...it is our Soul, the entirety of the Triad...."

--> Blavatsky defines the Soul as Buddhi.

"The Sixth [principle in Man] [is] Buddhi, the Divine Soul...." (SD vol 1 p 19)

You said,

"...Theosophists, and students of AAB, and even just students of AAB and those of Helena Roerich's `Agni Yoga,' and so on, love to argue."

--> It is the nature of the beast. I believe it is also a result of our openess and lack of dogma — everything is open to examination and speculation. As bad as it is, it is better than anything even approaching dogma and "taking things on faith".

"...when I watch our Thomases, and our bananabrains, who will stop at nothing to defend their Catholicism and their Judaism...."

--> Perhaps we were Thomases and bananabrains in our previous incarnations, and now we get to see the other side...?

"Why are these men (and women) arguing so vehemently - or I might just say passionately - for their "cause?"

--> I understand their desire to argue. It is their attacking and insults I do not understand. This is all the more reason why we cannot insult them and call them names, even if their religions allow them to do it to us.

"And, whether I say I am a Theosophist, or an esotericist, or a whatever, I know I am no Catholic, nor a follower of the Jewish tradition, etc. And I get a chance to ask myself, why this, why not that, why do I believe, so strongly & passionately, as I do ... in x, y & z?"

--> I have two reactions.

(1) Theosophy allows, nay requires us to question everything. The two traditions you mention do not. Is there any wonder we are Theosophists?

(2) I feel that believing strongly in a religion is a good thing. It is the passionate part I have a problem with. Buddha taught dispassion in all things. As you know, Theosophy teaches that the day will come when we lose our astral bodies (and along with them the ability to feel emotion), but our convictions will be stronger than ever.

 

[taijasi]

From de Purucker's online Encyclopedic Theosophical Glossary:

Monadic Ray The monad, that divine-spiritual-intellectual seed or originant of each evolving being, does not itself descend into the planes of matter, but shoots forth from itself a multitude of rays. Each such rays forms the essential nature of the complex evolving being to which it pertains, and hence the monad is the primal or ultimate source of all that being's life and characteristic attributes, the immortal part of the being, whether that being be human, animal, vegetable, mineral, or what not. In man it is his essential self; it persists throughout all the evolutionary transformations in the life cycle and gathers around itself the life-atoms at each new incarnation of the reincarnating ego.​

Thus the monad in any person is his inner god, the celestial buddha of his own septenary constitution, or again his individual Immanent Christ.​

That the Christ is something Universal, and altogether beyond our individual, human (mortal) personalities .... I do not question. But I also believe we can experience the Christ, and that the Christ is - paradoxically - one of the most intimate, and therefore "personal" of experiences, while also ... the very epitome of impersonality.

Christ said, "No man comes to the Father, except by me." And esoterically, I take this to mean, Christ the Hierophant, admits the Soul to the Presence of Sanat Kumara - as the idealized, or Perfected (even Human) Monad. Sanat Kumara is, after all, `the One Initiator.'

Nick, does not the Christ equate, with you, to the Bodhisattva ... the World Teacher? Or is it/He something purely Cosmic, pertaining to the Monad, or even beyond our strictly human experience?

I distinguish between the Cosmic Christ, the Mystic (Internal, Occult, or Buddhic Christ) ... the OFFICE of Christ in the Spiritual Hierarchy, and even the historical, temporary `christ' - as Christ Jesus, Christ Orpheus, Christ Thoth/Hermes, Christ Zoroaster, Christ Vyasa (even if these last few were previous incarnations of Shakyamuni `Buddha') ... and so on.

To collapse the term, is perhaps a bit unfair, or misleading, or confusing. But what does it mean, in any of its applications?

In the end (practical, most efficient sense), I think that's what matters!

Peace ... Light, and LOVE,

~andrew

 

[Nick the Pilot]

~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~

Andrew,

I suppose there are two kinds of Theosophists, those who like to use Christian terminology, and those who do not. I am in the second group. I see no need to use Christian terminology, and I avoid it.

The value of Theosophy is that it has no dogma. Everyone is free to bring in their own belief system, even Christians. I can see why Christians would refer to Buddha-nature as Christ Consciousness, even when I do not.

I have seen this issue before, where some Theosophists like to use Christian terminology, and others do not. I suppose the best we can do is for both groups to be aware of what the other group is thinking. I, for one, tend to tune out any Theosophist when they use Christian terminology, and tune them back in when they stop using Christian terminology — so at least, now, each group can better understand where the other group is coming from.

I imagine these two groups will continue to exist within Theosophy. We should be able to get along just fine. I am reminded of three particular types of Theosophists: Blavatsky was into Buddhism, Besant was into Hinduism, and Leadbeater was into Christianity. The idea of Theosophy is to bring all groups together.

"Nick, does not the Christ equate, with you, to the Bodhisattva ... the World Teacher?"

--> For me, it does not. The Word Teacher is a specific office held by a specific being, and I do not equate the World Teacher with the Universal Mind. I suppose a person could call Gautama Christ instead of Buddha, but that is something I would not do. (I would have a problem with anyone who started referring to the Pratyeka Buddha as a Pratyeka Christ.)

"Or is it/He something purely Cosmic, pertaining to the Monad, or even beyond our strictly human experience?"

--> (1) To me, it is purely cosmic, way above the Monadic level. (2) I avoid any anthropomorphizing of the Universal Mind, and I would never refer to it as a "He".

~~~

Regarding the Monad, you many be interested in Geoffrey Barboka's distinguishing of Monad from Monadic Essence. (The Divine Plan, p. 9) He equates the Monad as Atma-Buddhi, and the Monadic Essence as Atman.

 

[taijasi]

Nick,

Okay, I follow you. I'm someone who often speaks plainly about my belief in Christ as the World Teacher. I have come to understand, and equate, the Office of Bodhisattva, World Teacher and "Christ." I believe this is quite in keeping with the tradition HPB describes, wherein the chrestos candidate, becomes a High Initiate.

The Initiation in question would be the 7th, also shared by the Maha-Chohan and the Manu. And yes, you are correct. Bishop Leadbeater did prefer, perhaps as a member and official of the Liberal Catholic Church, to speak of "the Christ" as the Christ:

Wondrous beyond measure is our Holy Lord the Christ, wondrous beyond any power of description, for through Him flows the Love which comforts millions, and His is the Voice that speaks, as never man spake, the words of teaching that bring peace to angels and to men. Within a very few years that Voice will be heard and that Love be felt by those who dwell in the dark ways of earth; may we prepare ourselves to receive Him when He comes and give Him fitting welcome and faithful service! (`Masters and the Path,' p.94)
​

So, I hope you won't tune me out, if you find that I have said, "the Christ" in place of World Teacher, or Bodhisattva. This is an association that goes well beyond Theosophy, as most students I know of Alice Bailey's also tend to see things this way.

Such teachings tell us that the source of the Cosmic Christ for our System is the Sirian System, yet I do not believe that "the Christ" is just a beacon from several light years away. I believe we find this same Principle mirrored, directly into our 2nd Ray Solar Logos ... Whom and which is, the `Lord' and thus Christ of our System.

Similarly, in terms of our Planetary Scheme, reflecting the Solar on a lesser scale - and especially for both the Human, and Deva Kingdoms - the Solar Christ (and beyond, the Cosmic) must find its reflection ... which I believe occurs in the Head of the Hierarchy, the Bodhisattva, or Christ.

I do find it comfortable, and more natural (given a familiarity with Christian teachings) to speak of the Christ Within, of St. Paul. Yet there, we are considering something of the same nature, just on a smaller scale, with relation to what we have seen unfold for the Arhat, the Adept, and the Chohan ... with the Christ, or Bodhisattva, showing us the epitome of that development - along 2nd Ray lines.

One step beyond, and we have a Buddha, yet this is somewhat difficult (for some, certainly for me) to understand ... because Earth's own 5th Race Buddha thus far, has also served in the unique role of "anchoring" for Humanity the 3rd Divine Aspect, `Light,' for the Planetary Being - and thus into our awareness. Many people tend to see the Buddha (Shakyamuni) in terms of the Wisdom side of the "Love-Wisdom" 2nd Ray quality(ies). Perhaps in the future, as Maitreya Bodhisattva becomes Maitreya Buddha, there will be such a flow of LOVE into this planet that all things (and people, beings, etc.) will find their proper place ...

I guess I just have no problem thinking of the Bodhisattva as `the Christ,' because my understanding is that this is the same Individual, just as He was on the way to becoming that Office-Holder, Who overshadowed Jesus ~2100 years ago. As Sri Krishna before that, He is a definite Individual ... unless Leadbeater was just plain deluded. CWL even describes an Initiation Ceremony in His Garden ... for Krishnamurti. I might not buy every single detail and swallow it whole, but I do think he was onto something, to say the least!

Shakyamuni Bodhisattva, upon becoming Shakyamuni Buddha, handed the Office of "Christ" over to Maitreya. The Buddhists will scream, the Catholics will cringe, and now it seems, the Theosophists will shudder!

Ah well, it's no trouble here and there for me to say, `Bodhisattva,' but Nick, there are times when I do specifically mean `Christ' (!) in terms of a context, and then I think something is lost to try and keep the Eastern emphasis, focus and title. These do serve, however, along a certain lines, yet I look forward to the day when such differences - being exoteric and not pertinent to the Inner Reality - can disappaear!

~+~+~+~+~+~+~

On the Monad, I would note that DK, in the glossary of `Letters on Occult Meditation,' via AAB, does define the Monad as the Spiritual Triad, Atma-Buddhi-Manas. However, consider that the charts I posted to the Theosophical Hierarchy thread ... also originate with that Master. Note carefully, if you will, that in the chart depicting the `Evolution of a Solar Logos,' as well as on the first two charts under `Meditation' and `the Egoic Lotus,' the Monad clearly shows up as the Will, Wisdom, and Activity upon the Monadic Plane.

The understanding that I have, is that the Spiritual Triad is the Monad in incarnation, so to speak ... while upon its own plane, the actual `Unit' which is projecting the Sutratma (and this makes all the sense in the world, once you think about it ... Sutratma equalling Jivatma) - is the Monad "out of" incarnation. I guess I just tend to think of the Eternal Pilgrim in its own world, held in that amazing relationship with its Parent Source, or the Greater Monadic Life of which it is a distinct & inseparable part, yet not fully At-One, until the day, `BE-with-Us.'

And again, I hope this will do ...

Namaskar,

~andrew

 

[taijasi]

I would say, rather, the Soul refers to Buddhi. It seems to me the Reincarnating Ego is still a part of every 5th Initiated Adept who has forsaken Nirvana.

Here's something I wanted to comment on.

My understanding is that the Solar Lotus is what unfolds, petal by petal, until the final, comsummating Initiation, the 4th. There are nine external petals, corresponding to the three aspects - Knowledge, Love, Sacrifice. Further, there are three petals per plane of manifestation of the Solar Angel ... so there are K-L-S petals per the physical, per the astral, and per the lower mental planes.

When, at the 4th Initiation, the petals are all fully unfolded and the central tier of three petals is also opened, the Spark of Electric (Cosmic) Fire at the center, the esoteric JEWEL, is revealed. The Solar Lotus, and the Causal Body itself, is consumed in a blaze of Glory ... and the Inner Man - the Atma-Buddhi-manas (or Monad in manifestation) is set free.

What this means is that actually, two attainments have been reached. One, the Agnishvatta, or Solar Angel - the Being Whose very essence is Consiousness Itself - has fulfilled its Service and the Purpose for its continued, voluntary involvement with man. This Being, the Manasaputra, has further evolution elsewhere ... since in its own, prior cycle, it was a HUMAN being, in another scheme or system.

Consider these references, to Agnishvatta and Manasaputra, respectively, form de Purucker's glossary:

Mystically the agnishvattas are far higher beings than are the barhishads because they are devoid of the fire of creative passion. Being too divine and pure for this, they are devoid (i.e., freed) of the grosser creative fire, and thus unable to form physical man. They are, on the other hand, possessed of spiritual-intellectual fire and are the endowers of the human conscious, spiritually immortal ego or selfhood. Hence the agnishvatta-pitris are those who are "purified by fire" -- which may be interpreted as either 1) the fire of suffering and pain in material existence producing great fiber and strength of character or spirituality; or 2) from the esoteric standpoint as signifying those entities who have through evolution become one in essence with the aethery fire of spirit.​

The agnishvattas signify our ancestral solar selves in contradistinction to the barhishads, our lunar ancestors. The agnishvattas are variously spoken of in The Secret Doctrine as the fashioners of the inner man, manasa-dhyanis (lords of mind), solar devas, sons of the flame of wisdom, givers of human intelligence and consciousness, and fire-dhyanis. In ancient Greece they were collectively personified by the epic figure of Prometheus, and in China by the Fiery Dragons of Wisdom.​

The agnishvattas, our solar spiritual-intellectual parts, are those who in preceding manvantaras completed their evolution in the realms of matter; and when evolution had brought the nascent human stock to the state where they had only the physical creative fire, the agnishvattas came to their rescue by inspiring and enlightening these lower lunar pitris with spiritual and intellectual energies or fires (OG 14-15; SD 2:91-2).​

Manasaputras (Sanskrit) [from manasa intelligent from manas mind + putra son, child] Sons of mind. Mind manifesting in the universe is called mahat; when manifesting in particular entities it is called manas. Manasa signifies beings who are endowed with the fire of self-consciousness which enables them to carry on trains of self-conscious thought and meditation. Hence the manasaputras are children of cosmic mind, a race of dhyani-chohans particularly evolved along the lines of the manasic principle.​

These manasaputras are a mystery in the human constitution: they are both ourselves and a descent into us of our higher selves. They are entities from the buddhic hierarchy of compassion, from the luminous arc of evolving nature, and they are under the guidance of the Silent Watcher of the planetary chain, their supreme head.​

"These advanced entities are otherwise known as the Solar Lhas, as the Tibetans call them, the solar spirits, who were the men of a former kalpa, and who during the third Root-race thus sacrifice themselves in order to give us intellectual light -- incarnating in those senseless psycho-physical shells in order to awaken the divine flame of egoity and self-consciousness in the sleeping egos which we then were. They are ourselves because belonging to the same spirit-ray that we do; yet we, more strictly speaking, were those half-unconscious, half-awakened egos whom they touched with the divine fire of their own being. This, our 'awakening,' was called by H. P. Blavatsky, the incarnation of the Manasaputras, or the Sons of Mind or Light. Had that incarnation not taken place, we indeed should have continued our evolution by merely 'natural' causes, but it would have been slow almost beyond comprehension, almost interminable; but that act of self-sacrifice, through their immense pity, their immense love, though, indeed, acting under Karmic impulse, awakened the divine fire in our own selves, gave us light and comprehension and understanding; and from that time we ourselves became 'Sons of the Gods,' the faculty of self-consciousness in us was awakened, our eyes were opened, responsibility became ours; and our feet were set then definitely upon the path, that inner path, quiet, wonderful, leading us inwards back to our spiritual home. . . .​

The "descent" of the manasaputras before the middle of the third root-race was only a partial descent, and even today they are not yet fully incarnated in us, they have not yet fully manifested their splendor within us because our minds are not yet fully evolved. The descent is still in progress and will continue until the very end of the fifth round. Even the titan-intellects of the human race have not yet fully expressed the powers of the manasaputra above and within them. These manasaputras are incarnating ever more and more, just as the growing child develops more mental power as each year passes. As man proceeds along the evolutionary pathway and unfolds his inner nature, he will bring forth his own latent manasaputra and in the next manvantara he will light the way for lesser entities.

"In addition to this, there was still another class of Manasaputras who, as it were, started the whole thing going by inflaming . . . with their own fire of intelligent thought and self-consciousness those of the human race who, at that time, in the early part of the Third Root-Race in this Round, were ready, who caught the flame; and then their own mental apparatus, their own manasic powers, burst as it were into bloom as a rose unfolds rapidly its petals when the season comes for it to do so. And these Manasaputras . . . were the highly evolved entities from previous cosmic manvantaras, who deliberately, belonging as they do to the hierarchy of the Buddhas of Compassion, as it were left their own sublime spheres and descended among men and taught them -- and then withdrew" (SOPh 468).​

​

All of this gets a good bit away from Shamballa and the Father's House ... but I think it becomes fairly clear ... that from the stage of 4th Degree Initiate, or Arhat, on through Adept - and so on - the Soul, in terms of the Agnishvatta or Manasaputra, is no longer present. I too, agree, that the Inner Man is Atma-Buddhi, and that Manas, our 3rd Aspect is ultimately the Ahamkaric self-consciousness which must be transcended.

Yet if we read carefully what is said above, and realize how very FAR we are from the full Realization of the Manasic Principle in terms of both Humanity and certainly our own, Individual development ... then I think we move beyond the notion that it is a static, fixed kind of thing. It's like a moving target, a dynamic Goal, and each group of Masters that reaches it, could certainly be said to benefit more than the previous group ... or to accomplish on a higher turn of the spiral.

My point about the Arhat, and the Master, is that when they walk up and shake us by the hand, they do not manifest (directly from) the Soul, in terms of the intermediary, or middle principle(s), just as they are not expressing the/a personality. Instead, we are witnessing a direct manifestation of Divinity. The Master is SPIRIT, Pure SPIRIT (in terms of HPB's Spirit, Soul, body) ... and is completely under guidance by the Monad.

I'm not saying there is no Atma, or no Atma-Buddhi. Nor even that Manas is not a factor. And I couldn't begin to say anything about just how it is that the mayavic, or mayavi-rupic thing that would be standing before us ... relates to `the Master in his own world.' His consciousness, we know, abides in Nirvana, yet His life is one of greatest activity - and is unceasing labor for the benefit of all (especially Humanity, for some, and during this phase of evolution).

But while we are learning to tune into the Soul, and at-one ourselves with our own, Atma-Buddhi-Manas with the assistance of the SOLAR ANGEL (Manasaputra, Agnishvatta, Guardian Spirit, etc.) ... a Master HAS NO SUCH BEING, or equivalent, in His constitution. He is JivanMUKTA, and one part of what has been freed is this actual BEING.

Our goal, then, is described as learning to attune ourselves to, or raise our vibration into, the Light of the Soul ("hold the mind steady in the Light," as DK puts it) ... as well as to allow the Light and Love of the entire Spiritual Triad to flow through our personality, blessing the world in general, and everyone with whom we come into contact, specifically.

Gradually, as we are drawn in closer, and advance on the Path, we learn to contact the Monad directly - occuring at lesser Initiations, but not becoming possible in the same sense we are learning to contact the Soul until the 3rd Initiation. The at-one-ment with our higher, Spiritual Principles (the Atma-Buddhi) becomes great enough, during our Transfigured condition, that finally - at the 4th Initiation - the Causal body is no longer necessary as a temporary focus, or waystation, between the Higher and the lesser awareness. The Bridge, or Antahkarana, has been completed between the personality and the Soul, and it is well enough established with the Monad ... that the Soul is freed for higher work.

Here again, Nick, you may find that we have a difference of tendencies, based on our past experiences. You may think of Atma-Buddhi, or the Buddhic principle, when saying `Soul.' I immediately bring to mind, the Solar Angel, Agnishvatta, or Manasaputra. If anything, my understanding is a bit limited, or limiting, because I sometimes call to mind the focus of the Spiritual Triad in the Causal Body, as or at the Solar Lotus. This is the Soul in form, so to speak, since the Soul does not directly descend - in terms of its own awareness - below the level of Higher Mind. It cannot.

But I recognize, and this it is important to emphasize, that the Soul itself, while technically not even part of our permanent, or Greater Being, is VERY much so identified with our own, Spiritual Triad (Atma-Buddhi-Manas). It just rests, or focuses, for our cycle of incarnations, into the outermost vehicle of expression, the Causal `Body.' And the Mystery of Indentification, which reveals to us fully and utterly what has been taking place - at this, and even higher levels - is not revealed to us until we are Asekha Adept, Initiate of the 5th Degree!!!

So, if a person speaks in terms of "becoming One with the Christ within," or of attaining Soul Fusion (and then Infusion), I don't care a hill o' beans, because it all means more or less the same to me ... and I think the distinctions are not that critical (if important at all), so long as we are doing, rather than just talking. It's the pouring forth of Light and Love that really matters, and if I had to stop, and think, every time I wanted to manifest something of the Soul/Spirit, and certainly if I had to "get it right" every time I had a noble impulse, motive, or inclination ... I have a feeling I'd never get around to loving, or shedding much light, at all. Hell, I'm damn beleaguered as it is!

Anyway, there's some fertilizer for our conversation. I think we scared our compatriots off ... but at least the Wesak energies are going forth, the Blessing of the Buddha is healing the planet, and Power is attending the efforts of the Great Ones.

cheers,

andrew

 

[taijasi]

Shoot - I missed half of the whole point of replying! It was to say, that I think the Masters choose 100% voluntarily and willingly, to sacrifice their own well-won Nirvanic Reward ... in order to incarnate again to assist Humanity. And yet, the conditions under which They DO return, have always remained a Mystery to me (as I'm sure must needs be). Basically, I tend to think they simply CREATE Their new vehicles of Service, directly from the Higher Triad, via Kriyashakti.

Because They have chosen `the Path of Earth Service,' we might say that a kind of Karma, or Dharma, does "force" Them to incarnate among us. Yet I think this is Their Monadic Decision ... and really has naught to do with `the reincarnating Ego,' even in the higher, Theosophical sense. The Masters, much as we may think of Them so, are not personalities ... even if it is tempting, and somewhat inevitable, to speak of Them as if They were yet, "men." [Technically, a Third Degree Initiate (and we probably both know several), is no longer HUMAN. S/he is now officially a Member of Hierarchy ... and is capable of registering impression both from Shamballa, and from Sirius, the Greater (Cosmic) Lodge.]

The Masters' consciousness resides, even during Their Earthly Service, in Greatest Peace, in Greatest Bliss, and within Perfect Omniscience. They are Beings of IMMENSE and Amazing Stature ... and, though every one of us who has ever said it cringes because we know what it suggests, nevertheless we say, They are (as) Gods. I feel that we can know the tendency, and the zeal of the Christian ... in rushing to deify Jesus of Nazareth, vehicle of the Christ (Bodhisattva), because no Greater Adept has Humanity ever known - and truly, when He said, "I and the Father are ONE," it meant that just to gaze upon Him, was to "see God."

This all means one thing, for the Christian, and seemingly quite another for the Theosophist and Esotericist ... but there is only ONE Reality, no matter how many hairs we split it into. If we can touch that moment, when the Inner, Mystical Christ was, is, and always will be at-one'd with the outer, historical, manifest Christed Jesus ... then I think these many distinctions will simply disappear.

And if you want to take a look at what the Master Jesus might have to say, were He a Master just as KH, M or DK (H, R, etc.) ... try `Visions of the Nazarene,' by Cyril Scott. I recommend this version, from the publisher, Weiser, direct. It is something I treasure greatly (having given several copies away) ... and I think you would find it immensely practical, Nick, and resonate with it!

 

[Nick the Pilot]

~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~

Andrew,

Regarding Leadbeater, at one point he talks about the Master Jesus, and at another point he says Jesus was only a reincarnation of Maitreya. So I feel Leadbeater was being inconsistent. (I like to go with the idea Jesus was an incarnation of Maitreya.) If Jesus was Maitreya, then there is no such thing as a Master Jesus.

I am beginning to wonder if you get phrases like "Solar Christ" and "Christed Jesus" from AAB. If so, I think we are getting into a big difference between AAB's teachings and HPB's teachings.

You said,

"Shakyamuni Bodhisattva, upon becoming Shakyamuni Buddha, handed the Office of "Christ" over to Maitreya. The Buddhists will scream, the Catholics will cringe, and now it seems, the Theosophists will shudder!"

--> You are correct, this phrase is offensive to some people. I certainly would not use it. It also sounds like something HPB would not say.

"...there are times when I do specifically mean `Christ' (!) in terms of a context, and then I think something is lost to try and keep the Eastern emphasis, focus and title."

--> I cannot imagine a situation where the word Christ is necessary.

~~~

"I would note that DK, in the glossary of `Letters on Occult Meditation,' via AAB, does define the Monad as the Spiritual Triad, Atma-Buddhi-Manas...."

--> Then such a teaching is in conflict with The Secret Doctrine. Some Theosophists have said AAB's teachings differ from HPB's teachings, and this seems to be a good example.

"...in the chart depicting the `Evolution of a Solar Logos,' as well as on the first two charts under `Meditation' and `the Egoic Lotus,' the Monad clearly shows up as the Will, Wisdom, and Activity upon the Monadic Plane."

--> Is AAB the source for that chart?

"...the Spiritual Triad is the Monad in incarnation...."

--> The Secret Doctrine has said the Triad is Atma-Buddhi plus Manas, which was supplied by the Solar Pitris. Another way to look at it is, Manas was not supplied by the Solar Pitris, but awakened by the Pitris. I could go on, but I think this is just another difference between HPB and AAB.

...the Solar Lotus ... Sacrifice...."

--> I have not heard these terms in Theosophy. Are these terms from AAB's writings?

"...When, at the 4th Initiation ... the Atma-Buddhi-manas (or Monad in manifestation) is set free."

--> This, again, sounds like AAB not HPB. I am not saying there is anything wrong with AAB. I am just saying not all of AAB's teachings are the same as HPB's Theosophy.

"...from the stage of 4th Degree Initiate, or Arhat, on through Adept - and so on - the Soul, in terms of the Agnishvatta or Manasaputra, is no longer present...."

--> This, too, does not sound like Blavatskian Theosophy.

"The Master ... and is completely under guidance by the Monad."

--> This would seem to indicate the Master has finished all spiritual evolution, as far as all levels below the Atman Plane are concerned. Rather, I would say Nirvanic-level Masters are still evolving (just as humans are), just at a higher level.

"...we are learning to tune into the Soul, and at-one ourselves with our own, Atma-Buddhi-Manas...."

--> I would use the Theosophical definition of soul as Buddhi, and spirit as Atman.

"I think the Masters choose 100% voluntarily and willingly, to sacrifice their own well-won Nirvanic Reward ... in order to incarnate again to assist Humanity."

--> This is the very definition of Nirmanakaya.

"I tend to think they simply CREATE Their new vehicles of Service, directly from the Higher Triad, via Kriyashakti."

--> This is very possible.

"Technically, a Third Degree Initiate (and we probably both know several), is no longer HUMAN."

--> I would disagree. This is not Blavatskian Theosophy.

"The Masters' consciousness resides ... They are (as) Gods."

--> I remember reading somewhere the idea that only Solar guardian-spirits and above are referred to as gods. That works for me.

"I feel that we can know the tendency, and the zeal of the Christian ... in rushing to deify Jesus of Nazareth...."

--> I suffer from no such zeal, and neither do several of my fellow Theosophists.

"...when He said, "I and the Father are ONE," it meant that just to gaze upon Him, was to "see God."

--> I would disagree. This seems to be an unecessary equating of Atman with the Universal Mind.

"If we can touch that moment, when the Inner, Mystical Christ was, is, and always will be at-one'd with the outer, historical, manifest Christed Jesus ... then I think these many distinctions will simply disappear."

--> I really think we are getting into some big differences between AAB and HPB. I am not a follower of AAB. I suppose we need to start keeping track of which ideas are from Blavatskian Theosophy and which are not.

 

[taijasi]

Yes ... I'll rely on you, Nick, to help make distinctions between HPB's presentation, and later ones - whether they be the emphases of Alice Bailey, Geoffrey Hodson, Helena Roerich, Lucille Cedercrans, David Anrias, Cyril Scott, and so on.

Each of these latter, like HPB, was a Messenger of sorts, a conscious, willing Sibyl for one or another of the Masters. In some cases, as with Geoffrey Hodson, though also others, any number of Masters, Initiates, and Great Deva Lives wrote via the disciple's pen. Geoffrey's own Master was Polidorus Isurenus, who was Philo Judeaus in a former incarnation. Yet the relationship between this Master and Geoffrey cannot be viewed in quite the same light as that between HPB and Masters M, KH, and DK.

I do tend to think that HPB illustrates a unique case, yet what I resist - and can never entertain seriously, since it makes no sense to me - is the notion that HPB's presentation is the last of the Wisdom of the Mahatmas. That just plain violates the entire Spirit, even the letter, of what HPB taught!

So, I am with you, as far as the helpful distinction between HPB's teachings, and those of later generations of Theosophists, as well as those who formed part of later impulses.

One can make a strong case for the Temple Teachings, of Master Hilarion via Francia la Due and William Dower - which I forgot to mention above - as coming under the same impulse as HPB's original Theosophy, since these were quite intentionally given within the previous cycle, just prior to the close of the 19th Century.

Yet the efforts of Alice Bailey, from 1919 forward, similar efforts of Helena Roerich's, and various authors since (above mentioned, yet even including CWL, I would argue) ... all come under a different set of astrological circumstances, and are clearly a very distinct effort from HPB's, even while all will acknowledge and eternally revere her contributions as Foundational.

I am just of the opinion that Foundations are provided so that they may be built upon, and I think there is an ongoing building work that involves many, many thousands of students worldwide ... some of whom have never even heard of H.P. Blavatsky!

HPB's writings are not for everyone, and even among esotericists, students of the Occult, or Theosophists, there is often plenty of divergence of opinion, yet typically a willingness to admit that her writing are a bit poorly organized, and rough going in spots.

To sit down and just try to read through Isis or the SD, is a difficult challenge, indeed! These are reference volumes, and not meant to be read as pure narrative, or even in the same light as the Christian Bible. Especially since we know that much of the modern Theosophical presentation is the KEY to understanding the Ageless Wisdom, such as found within the Bible ... we have to consider all things in context. And of course, we must always use our Intuition.

I must admit, it's almost laughable to me, Nick, that you are so resistant to the term, `Christ,' but then, if you want the honest truth, I'll tell you: Some time ago, I almost found the word repulsive, myself, presumably just because of what horrible connotations it called to mind. My experiences with foaming-at-the-mouth fundamentalists, and the dead-letter reading & emphases of various Christian dogmas, had perhaps despoiled this word `Christ' of all possible spiritual, or occult meaning for me - or at least, so I thought.

Things change, and I am happy to say that my chagrin has turned to a kind of guarded optimism ... and while I know that Christ still usually means a bit of a blending for most folks of the historical man, Jesus of Nazareth, with the more Universal, Mystical - or Occult - Christos ... I am quite hopeful now of seeing a time when Christ, and Christianity, find a new appeal for folks, perhaps including yourself - though of course, in the light of such greater knowledge as that of Theosophy and Esotericism.

Works like the DaVinci Code, and the revival of a fascination with the Knights Templar, and a willingness to look at all sorts of Apocryphal, and previously-deemed `heretical' writings, as those of Gnosticism ... all of this, speaks to me of the Call and the Appeal, within the Inner Worlds, of the Christ within, the Soul, or `Buddhi,' if you must insist.

Yet for reference, and proper historical context, I would ask you to contemplate the earliest Christians, who sought to follow in their Founder's footsteps - long before the Master's Teachings had been whittled down, and worn into their present, barely recongizable husks.

I feel that I have learned a great deal at CR, by engaging directly in dialogue with both Christians and non-Christians, of all different shapes, sizes, specific creeds, and varieties. Some, as we know, are of the super-intellectual type, as perhaps you and I are, in a more Theosophical (or esoteric) sense ... while others express such a strong, 6th-Ray zeal that I wonder if their Teacher is not the Master Jesus (and of His existence, as the martial disciplinarian, a "hard Master" indeed, I am quite certain, if only because my karma, and affront, to His Ashram is probably some of my greatest ).

But I have certainly expanded my awareness, my understanding, and made all sorts of connections in my being - from brain, to emotions, to mind and beyond - which would not have been possible were it not for a new form of Christianity, which is emerging, and which we (at least sometimes) see, here at CR, and elsewhere. And in that Christianity, the Christ within, or whatever its various adherents prefer to call this Principle, is every bit as important as the esoteric `Soul,' even Buddhi, for I am telling you: they Know it, and recognize it, and answer to it, as one and the same.

I believe you would find, if you could engage HPB in a private conversation, that she might surprise you by saying precisely this kind of thing ... yet our challenge is to keep in mind that HPB lived during a different Era. LITERALLY, she came at the CLOSE of another Astrological Cycle, the Piscean, and the energies which she had to work with, were NOT what we have today. She performed a work, a most noble work, as NO OTHER SOUL could perform it, and for all her vices, shortcomings and simple, human foibles, she was a PROPHET.

She helped herald the New Era, and could be said, easily, to be the `Mother' of the New Age ... yet I am forced to shudder a little, when I consider how much emphasis we sometimes put on HER TEACHINGS, as if there have been none since, or as if her own efforts were perfect and flawless. One really should try to lose sight of HPB, the personality, and I am far guiltier than many of adoring her in precisely the way we are told not to.

But the Stanzas which she gave us, were only two sets of three, and if we are interested, we can find a third set of slokas, equally worth our study ... while there are also the commentaries, and the "key" to the SD, provided by AAB some decades later - during a new impulse, I must emphasize, when new energies, and new Revelation, had become available and possible.

I'm not suggesting even for a moment that one should abandon Theosophy, and take up some other study. After all, this immediately begs the question, which series of Teachings? I mentioned just a few of the students, of whom I am aware, but if I learned tomorrow that a DOZEN MORE Masters have given out teachings, even entire SETS of Teachings ... I would not be surprised!

The books I study now, after all, are the work of the current Maha Chohan, and involve the cooperative effort of no fewer than three Masters' Ashrams, creating a Synthetic, 7th Ray effort that is unprecedented in Humanity's history, and really opens a new chapter in terms of the study of the Ageless Wisdom!

Opportunities which, even a few decades ago, were only open to the most advanced of disciples and Initiates, are now being presented to literally millions of Humanity, where there is Goodwill and the true spirit of altruistic Service, shining brightly. This, of course, includes members of all religions, and none, yet I doubt we will see a day when the banners we fly will be those of the Theosophical Society, or any other organization that is currently established in the physical world of human affairs.

The `New Group of World Servers,' meanwhile, does have outward organization, yet there is no seal, no stamp of membership, which we can read upon the foreheads of the pledged Server. To a clairvoyant, this is a different story, and I believe that in fact, a literal mark, or glyph, is actually present within the aura of all NGWS members ... but that is another matter.

I think that our efforts must ever include study, meditation, and Service, yet there are high initiates who know nothing of Theosophy, or esoteriicsm at all! They have, more or less, transcended the form, and they embody the Life, whereas names and labels would only hinder their efforts, and perhaps derail the inner, spiritual impulse. I know of one such Server who is a Roman Catholic, and who may remember conversations with me about these things ... yet I also know that he is a focus for the Christ within, and especially for the 2nd Ray Ashram of His own Master, KH.

Perhaps sometimes these terms do just carry too great an association, or connotation. I might just speak of this friend as being one of the most Loving persons I have ever met, and keep free altogether of the need to label. Between you and me, though, he gives expression to the Love portion of Love-Wisdom, every bit as much - or more - than the Wisdom portion. As a 2nd Ray Soul, this means something to me, but I would be plenty interested in another approach, or another way to describe it.

Anyway, this is good dialogue, if - again - unrelated to Shangri LHA.

Namaskar,

~andrew

 

[Nick the Pilot]

~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~

Andrew,

You said,

"what I resist - and can never entertain seriously, since it makes no sense to me - is the notion that HPB's presentation is the last of the Wisdom of the Mahatmas."

--> Certainly, HPB will not be the last. We have had a good discussion about her successors on the Theosophy Forum. The jury is still out, however, as to who her real successors are, and who are just "pretty pretenders."

"HPB's writings ... are a bit poorly organized, and rough going in spots."

--> I have dedicated myself to making her writings more understandable. I plan to spend many more years working on this.

"I know of one such Server...."

--> It is good to be able to spot these people every once in a while. When we find them, we know instinctively they are Helpers.

By the way, I recently read in a Christian thread where one CR member cited a confusing Christian teaching: The Virign Mary gave birth to Jesus, yet is said to still be virgin, and the CR member just could not make heads or tails of the mystery. I thought it would be good to give the Theosophical explanation of the story.

The Virgin Mary is the anthropomorphized symbol of the waters of Genesis 1:2. Jesus is the anthropomorphized symbol of the Light of Genesis 1:3, which sprang from the Waters, and is composed of "millions of sparks of Light reflected in the Waters." Even though the Light sprang from the Waters, the Waters are themselves unaffected by the appearance of the Light. (The "Waters" remain unchanged from universe to universe, while the coming and going of the "Light" signals the beginning and ending of each universe.) Thus, the Waters (called by the name Mulaprakriti in Theosophy) are still there, unaffected — the Virgin Mary is still virgin.

 

[taijasi]

Re: ~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~

By the way, I recently read in a Christian thread where one CR member cited a confusing Christian teaching: The Virign Mary gave birth to Jesus, yet is said to still be virgin, and the CR member just could not make heads or tails of the mystery. I thought it would be good to give the Theosophical explanation of the story.

Yes, I rather tend to like the esoteric explanations, as they dismiss with such absurdities as "virgin birth."

We know, for example, that the virgin birth is a feature of many world religions, and that Christianity borrowed this teaching from the more ancient traditions. Christianity borrowed damn near everything, and there's nothing wrong with that ... yet to then slice away the roots, deny them altogether, and claim some sort of "special divine status" apart from these ancient sources - is most SHAMEFUL.

How much more sense many of the Christian teachings would make, if we could but see how they can be traced to prior revelations, and existing traditions - even from time immemorial!

HPB did a marvelous job of showing the true roots of the Christian, Hebraic, and even the Eastern teachings, did she not?


Just last night I came across something else on virgins, which I think would be interesting to share, in light of the post you just made, Nick ...

"The mystic word Alm, which the prophet Mahomet prefixed to many chapters of the Koran, alludes to her as the Alm, the immaculate Virgin of the heavens. And -- the sublime ever falling into the ridiculous -- it is from this root Alm that we have to derive the word Almeh --the Egyptian dancing-girls. The latter are "Virgins" of the same type as the Nautchnis in India, and the (female) Kadeshim, the Holy Ones of the Jewish temples (those consecrated to Jehovah, who represented both sexes), whose holy functions in the Israelite fanes were identical with those of the Nautchnis. SD2 463​

And here are a couple of relevant entries from de Purucker's online Glossary, but we still have to get past that `Christ' word p):

Virgin In ancient mystic philosophy the feminine potency of nature as well as cosmic space which is often referred to as the immaculate celestial virgin (cosmogonically undifferentiated cosmic matter, alaya, mahabuddhi, etc.), or the astral light which is sometimes called the celestial virgin. Again, it refers to the numerous Queens of Heaven, such as Isis, Moon, Ashtoreth, Nuah (the Chaldean feminine Noah considered as one with the cosmic arc), Belita, Diana, Artemis, Ark, etc. -- most of these names having reference to the moon. However, a sharp distinction should be made between the idea of the virgin connected with the lower planes of matter, including celestial bodies such as the moon, and the immaculate or undifferentiated cosmic virgin which is the immaculate spatial mother of the cosmic deep. On lower planes the Mother-Virgin is the various wombs of hierarchies, a feminine Manu or Prajapati, through whom pour the seeds of life from higher cosmic planes. The cosmic virgin is immaculate, and the zodiacal sign Virgo is her emblem; in human affairs she represents the nature of humanity before the division into sexes, in commemoration of which the sign Virgo became divided into Virgo and Scorpio. The name may also be used of a virgin male such as a kumara.​

The ideas of the Virgin Mary in orthodox Christianity have been taken over from the pagans, as for example from the mother in the triad which heads all cosmogonies of the countries surrounding the Mediterranean Sea (Isis, Juno, etc.). The word Mary from the Hebrew would seem etymologically cognate with the Latin mare (sea); the Hebrew word meaning bitter, and the sea likewise being bitter it is also cognate with other words meaning water, as in the Jewish expression, the waters of space, or the feminine productive principle. See also IMMACULATE CONCEPTION; VIRGIN BIRTH​

Virgin Birth Often applied to any kind of reproduction which is not sexual, including that of human races before the separation of the sexes. In a mystical sense, it applies to some of the rites of initiation, where the candidate has to go through by an anticipatory process the experiences which mankind will live through in the course of the next two root-races. Among these was the experience of the mystical virgin birth. The corresponding fact concerning mankind of the future is, that there will be in due course of evolutionary time no more sexual birth, which will then have run its course and will have disappeared, but instead, reproduction will be by the power of kriyasakti: by thought and will.

The mystic Christ, by whatever name, is said to be virgin-born, as emanating from the higher nature of the individual, not engendered by the terrestrial nature. The symbol has often been materialized, so that the divine quickening or overshadowing of a human virgin, whether man or woman, is spoken of as being a virgin-born.
​

Anyway, all the poor suicide bombers in Muslim countries, dying as martyrs so they can have their allotment of "virgins" ... oh dear, I suspect they're every bit as disappointed as the Christian who keeps looking in vain for those pearly gates!

I insert the sarcastic face, and I can smile, but really we know that this is not a laughing matter. People such as this are prime candidates for the Invisible Helpers ... and I suspect sometimes they have quite a bad time of it - before they find the peace they are seeking.

Makes me think of the Beatles song, `Let It Be' ...

Namaskar,

~andrew

 

[Nick the Pilot]

~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~

Andrew,

The word "virgin" is appropriate, because it is referring to Mulaprakriti — the pre-cosmic pre-matter of the universe. It is important to note that Mulaprakriti is the most basic "substance" of the universe, and everything else is built from it — even the Son. There is a very virgin quality to it, and so to describe it as virgin is correct. (Although anthropomorphizing such a cosmic principle into the mother of Jesus is stretching it too far.)

~~~

Regarding the seven principles of man, and your contention that all seven of them are awakened in today's Adepts, I would like to share a passage I was just reading this morning.

"In future aeons (during the Sixth Round) there will be an analogous process taking place in regard to the Buddhi-Principle — that is, a process akin to the awakening of the Mind-Principle (which occured during the Third Race). Then in still more future cycles (during the Seventh Round) a similar process will happen for the Atman-principle. Then, instead of being partly unfolded, as at present, the Saptaparna (the 'seven-leaved man-plant') will be fully expanded" (The Divine Plan, p. 305)
​

According to Theosophy, one principle is awakened each Round, and all of our seven principles will be full awakened at the end of the Seventh and last Round — millions of years from now.

 

[taijasi]

Re: Principles

According to Theosophy, one principle is awakened each Round, and all of our seven principles will be full awakened at the end of the Seventh and last Round — millions of years from now.

What's interesting about this, as I understand it, is that we are both well ahead, as well as tremendously behind schedule, in terms of our spiritual evolution. I'd have to ponder on that, to try and remember how this relates to the various principles, and which unfolds during which phase - or round ...

... but the cause for the delay would appear to be the failure on the Moon Chain.

As for being ahead of schedule, this we owe utterly and completely to the Lords of the Flame, if I remember correctly. Because we are in the 4th round, I believe it should kama-manas, and not the Manas of the Spiritual Triad which is receiving the focus.

A much greater stimulation will occur in the 5th Round, that of Manas proper ... but in many ways we are racing ahead at this point, despite the majority of Humanity remaining in the `Atlantean,' or emotional state of consciousness. And really, it is because the consciousness is being stimulated in this way, our evolution artificially hastened, that we run into various sorts of dangers (such as planetary disaster, due to misuse of the energy of the atom).

Also, Initiation, though a truly Universal process, does not occur in other schemes of our Solar System in quite the way it is now occurring on planet Earth. A certain risk, in connection with an over-developed manas, and ahankara, defintely seems to come about. I'm pretty sure the best antidote is spontaneous spiritual Service, as the natural outflow of the creative intellect and a loving mind ...

- even if it is a bit challenging sometimes (for me, at least) to just put the silly book down, and get on with it!

So, here's to the 6th Principle - counting upward!

Namaskar,

~andrew

 

[Nick the Pilot]

~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~

Andrew,

You said,

"... we are both well ahead, as well as tremendously behind schedule, in terms of our spiritual evolution."​

--> This begs the question — where should we be? We should be half-way developing the Kama Principle — half-way to developing our full emotional abilities. I think most people are about half-way there, so we seem to be right on schedule.

"... but the cause for the delay would appear to be the failure on the Moon Chain."​

--> What failures on the Moon Chain?

"As for being ahead of schedule, this we owe utterly and completely to the Lords of the Flame, if I remember correctly. Because we are in the 4th round, I believe it should kama-manas, and not the Manas of the Spiritual Triad which is receiving the focus."​

--> Some of us are ahead of shedule. Those of us who have developed a significant amount of intelligence are called Fifth-Rounders. There are a few such people around (though not a lot of such people, it seems unfortunate to say). Gautama, of course, was the best example of a Fifth-Rounder.

"... in many ways we are racing ahead at this point, despite the majority of Humanity remaining in the `Atlantean,' or emotional state of consciousness."​

--> That seems to be where we should be, and most of us are.

"...it is because the consciousness is being stimulated in this way, our evolution artificially hastened..."​

--> I am reminded of the Theosophical quote, which said such people are busy developing the intellect (scientists, doctors, etc.), while a few of us are developing the things of the next race — spirituality. It has been said to let the scientists keep doing what they are doing because it is important. But the small number of us who are doing spiritual development is even more important.

"A certain risk, in connection with an over-developed manas, and ahankara, defintely seems to come about."​

--> All of us are amazed at the mental geniuses we see in the news, and perhaps saddened that they do not have the maturity or spirituality to go along with it.

"I'm pretty sure the best antidote is spontaneous spiritual Service, as the natural outflow of the creative intellect and a loving mind ..."​

--> That, and developing spirituality, the Sixth Principle.