Peter's Vision- the Vestibule for our Father

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Bruce Michael

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Dear Companions,


What was Peter's vision?:
"Peter believed in the marriage between truth and perpetual reasoning, that the Mission of Christ should be a never-to-end saga invoking His Purpose, by account of His Propriety from the beginning of time (being the notation A.D.)."

"That the Church be a vestibule for our Father, yes, and likewise the Palace of our Christ, that too; and the holy space wherein Man could broach the Divine - and added to these there were inclinations of anxiety and protectiveness which echoed the original characterization borne by Peter himself. That was, that it was the exact preservation of this, the representation to carry over the centuries from Christ's Ministry to now. That the living Spirit be caught and contained in this manifestation of faith made concrete."

"And this was and was not - the preserves held the air of a stale tomb and invited the living men and women to objectify the remnants of their deity.

"But that was not all it stood for - as stand it did - in a world which trembled and laboured with new knowledge. As the shafts of fresh wisdom encompassed the ancient terrains, it was the Church herself which protected the reborn and nurtured the novitiate of character and determination."
 
Hi Bruce –

It would be helpful if you could give attributions for your quotations.

If we're talking of tombs, and thus the tomb, then I much prefer the exegesis of Johannes Scotus Eriugena, in his commentary on the Gospel of St John.

When the two apostles race to the empty tomb, it is John (the illumined intelect) who leads the way. When they get there, the darkness of the Mystery of the Resurrection is impenetrable to the intellect, so John hesitates outside the tomb.

Peter (faith) passes him, stepping into the 'Divine Darkness' (as per Dionysius the Areopagite), as faith surpasses the intellect when the Mystery of Mysteries is apprehended.

This accords with the whole of Christianity's mystical tradition – apostolic, patristic, and medieval (to whom Eriugena belongs).

Thomas
 
Thomas said:
Hi Bruce –

It would be helpful if you could give attributions for your quotations.

If we're talking of tombs, and thus the tomb, then I much prefer the exegesis of Johannes Scotus Eriugena, in his commentary on the Gospel of St John.

When the two apostles race to the empty tomb, it is John (the illumined intelect) who leads the way. When they get there, the darkness of the Mystery of the Resurrection is impenetrable to the intellect, so John hesitates outside the tomb.

Peter (faith) passes him, stepping into the 'Divine Darkness' (as per Dionysius the Areopagite), as faith surpasses the intellect when the Mystery of Mysteries is apprehended.

This accords with the whole of Christianity's mystical tradition – apostolic, patristic, and medieval (to whom Eriugena belongs).

Thomas
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Dear Br. Thomas,

I am not saying that Peter did not succeed- he did. But we are looking at the Church today and how it is to be renewed. Some people really think that Christianity is on the wane and about to die out, when in fact it's only just begun!

The authors of some of my quotes wish to remain anonymous. They are to be taken on face value- not on authority. Do you think authority should be placed before truth?


-Br. Bruce
 
Bruce Michael said:
I am not saying that Peter did not succeed - he did. But we are looking at the Church today and how it is to be renewed.
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The Church (the RC Church, at least) is in the continual process of renewing Herself, but renewal does not mean different in essence to its establishment. That's why we're continually being accused of invention, etc.

The only issue I have with your posts, as raised by others, is that you seem to be insituating a Petrine/Johannine division ... a split ... two churches.

Bruce Michael said:
The authors of some of my quotes wish to remain anonymous. They are to be taken on face value - not on authority. Do you think authority should be placed before truth?
Click to expand...

It's not a question of authority but context. Someone quotes someone else, the reader has no guarantee that the originator is not being quoted, misquoted, quoted out of context.

A good example of this is the 'reincarnation' doctrine attributed to Origen ... he never taught it, and in fact reasoned against it ... but his work is quoted out of context, at best, and simply fabricated, at worst ... so it's not the question of authority at stake, but truth itself.

Thomas
 
>The only issue I have with your posts, as raised by others, is that you seem >to be insituating a Petrine/Johannine division ... a split ... two churches.

As I have said, the Church of John is not an earthly organisation- as the Church of Peter most definitely is.


4: 21 Jesus declared, "Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.
 
Bruce Michael said:
As I have said, the Church of John is not an earthly organisation- as the Church of Peter most definitely is.
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If that were true, then the Johannine Church would be no more than the Petrine Church, each subject to the same failing ... to suggest otherwise is to refute the Incarnation.

The fact remains that the Johannine Church exists in the bosom of the Petrine Church, get rid of the latter, and the former will be gone, too.

Thomas
 
In fact, it was against this very thing that John wrote his gospel, in the refutation of the teachings of Cerinthus.

Thomas
 
Thomas said:
If that were true, then the Johannine Church would be no more than the Petrine Church, each subject to the same failing ... to suggest otherwise is to refute the Incarnation.

The fact remains that the Johannine Church exists in the bosom of the Petrine Church, get rid of the latter, and the former will be gone, too.

Thomas
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As a matter of definition, in referring to the Petrine Church, are we talking about the Catholic church specifically, or are we talking about the group of denominations that collectively claim Christianity, i.e. both Catholics and Protestants?
 
Well I would be bound to say that the Church was Petrine for the first 1,000 years ... then the schism with the East, which was, and remains, more political than theological – Greek and Roman now agree that there is no theological basis for separation, although there remains distinctions in doctrine.

Politics in the shape of nationalism again came to the fore in Luther – who had no problem with indulgences when the money went into the pockets of his bishop – and the whole Reformation, and with the rejection of tradition, a move away from the Petrine establishment.

Having said that, the various denominations who call themselves Christian, whatever their view of Rome, would agree with each other that there are not two streams of Christianity, one exoteric, one esoteric.

The Church, in Her Founder, Apostles, Fathers, Doctors, saints, mystics, sages, theologians and exegetes are all in agreement with the rejection of the idea of two streams, as Christ Himself prayed 'that they might be one, as we are one' ... sop any promotion of a two tier, two-stream church owes its idea, I believe, to a 'holier than thou' attitude.

It's worth recalling that of every person Jesus spoke of as 'justified' in his teachings, not one of them was an intellectual, a gnostic, an esoterist, etc. They were simple people, with a profound and simple faith.

Thomas
 
Lol ... I think it's pretty `holier than thou' to say, "WE are the church, there is NO OTHER, and therefore all claims to esotericism/gnosis/etc. are null & void"!!! :eek:

Talk about climbing to the top of one's ivory tower, and slamming & locking the door behind oneself! :(

Meanwhile ... in the Inner Worlds (where the Sons of Men are ONE) ... ;)

Namaskar to you too, Thomas! :)
 
AndrewX said:
Lol ... I think it's pretty `holier than thou' to say, "WE are the church, there is NO OTHER, and therefore all claims to esotericism/gnosis/etc. are null & void"!!! :eek:

Talk about climbing to the top of one's ivory tower, and slamming & locking the door behind oneself! :(

Meanwhile ... in the Inner Worlds (where the Sons of Men are ONE) ... ;)

Namaskar to you too, Thomas! :)
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I believe that there is a universal Church (not universal in the sense of salvitic universalism, but there are true believers in God in every church, every denomination, even in many cases outside the relam of Christianity, just as there are unbelievers).
 
AndrewX said:
Lol ... I think it's pretty `holier than thou' to say, "WE are the church, there is NO OTHER, and therefore all claims to esotericism/gnosis/etc. are null & void"!!! :eek:
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I believe the shorthand is 'rotfl'?

That's not what I'm saying, Andrew ... that's precisely the opposite of what I'm saying ... I'm saying the pauper in the pew who can't read or write, who smells and could do with a makeover, might well be a lot closer to God that many might suppose ...

Thomas
 
I'm saying the pauper in the pew who can't read or write, who smells and could do with a makeover, might well be a lot closer to God that many might suppose ...
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Too true, Thomas! I like to hope so! ;) :)
 
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