Crop circles

Discussion in 'Alternative' started by ardenz, Jun 18, 2007.

  1. ardenz

    ardenz New Member

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    What could crop circles indicate? are they hoaxes?

    I happened to pass through Glastonbury several years ago and picked up a book called Vital Signs by Andy Thomas (Vital Signs Publications). The book has quite a good account on the crop circle phenomena, giving various research and points of view and some amazing photos. Crop circles appear annually in Southern England.

    What got my interest were the actual symbols depicted, from the Kaballah, to Yin/yang and fractal geometry.

    And before you start thinking that these are easy to make, they appear suddenly- overnight, there are no tracks to show that people have walked through the fields taking measurements to make them, and some are on a huge scale.

    Andy Thomas:
    "Ultimately, wherever the crop glyphs come from, an increasing number of people believe they hold a deeper significance than has generally been recognised and that they may be portents of forthcoming global events, be they catastrophic or spiritual (or both). The recent revelations in the journal SC that the 'galaxy' formations of 1994 signpost specific constellations and future dates compounds this view further. With omen aspects in mind, I chose to wrap the book up with the thought that gave birth to its title - that these huge and complex patterns, whether premeditated communications or spontaneous outpourings, may well be vital signs for a crucial moment in our history. If the circles really are the heralds of something big - and they seem to be doing their best to attract our attention - we ignore them at our peril. They may have gifts for us besides their - generous enough - surface offerings of grace and beauty.

    [FONT=Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif]Swirled News[/FONT]

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    are they a signal from another dimension?
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  2. bgruagach

    bgruagach eclectic Wiccan

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    They are hoaxes.

    The only crop circles that I'm aware of which were not produced by humans were very crude circles produced by weather phenomenon -- basically small whirlwinds, localized tornadoes, what would be called "dust devils" in some places.

    The complex ones have indeed been produced in the course of a single night by mere humans. It's been done on film to show how it's done.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crop_circles gives a good summary of the pro-paranormal explanations as well as the skeptical ones. They have references and links for those who are interested in learning more. (Personally I have to admit that the skeptic side is pretty convincing. It would be romantic if the complex ones were of non-human origin, but the evidence is overwhelmingly against that.)
     
  3. 17th Angel

    17th Angel לבעוט את התחת ולקחת שמות

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    A group of old friends I know, make very complex crop circles... Sorry but as Bgruagach says they are 100% fake....
     
  4. bgruagach

    bgruagach eclectic Wiccan

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  5. ardenz

    ardenz New Member

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    Hi,

    Sorry I've been away for a few weeks - yes I would be a sceptic too, but some part of me likes the idea that there is another dimension. A fence sitter again am I .
     
  6. InLove

    InLove at peace

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    It's my dad. He's the one who does it. :D

    Okay, not really. And I don't have any real wisdom or even a wild guess to add. But ever since I saw the title of this thread, I have been wanting to say that. It is an ongoing joke in my family, because my dad loves to mow the lawn. In fact, someone nicknamed him OIMWML (Old Indian Man Who Mows Lawn). :D One year for his birthday, I made him a handpainted tee shirt with a picture of a space visitor pushing a lawn mower, and I added the caption "Crop Circles" underneath. (I adapted the design from one in the Wireless catalog of PBS affiliation.)

    Sorry...please return to your scheduled conversation....

    InPeace,
    InLove
     
  7. taijasi

    taijasi Gnōthi seauton

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    Ummm, no. The idea that hoaxers have - or even might have - produced the vast majority of crop circles ... THAT is the myth. ;)

    Why do we KNOW this to be a fact? Because dozens, if not scores, of scientific researchers ... have shown us many years ago that too many changes are occurring at cellular levels for a bunch of goofballs with boards and rope to have gone out and done this. Sorry ... it just doesn't work that way. :eek:

    For more info, try this out: Crop Circles Scientific Evidence

    The evidence is something proven by science, and not pseudo-science, as it can be observed by ANYONE ... and includes rapid microwave heating (or something that produces a similar effect), consistent cell pit changes (increase in diameter), changes in seed growth, and node cracking & reorientation. :)

    Now you see, good ol' Billy Bob and his drunk buddies cannot - they simply cannot - take some equipment out there in a field, and make these things. We also know this by OBSERVING ... that where NO crop circle exists, massive and complex formations will appear within minutes - if not seconds!!!

    This has been observed, and confirmed, time & time again ... yet still the hoaxers come forward, looking for a bit of glory - and hoping to have the last laugh. I would conjecture further, that some such hoaxers are just scared, plain & simple, that something is going which they themselves cannot explain (well of course they can't explain it! NONE of us can, as yet) ... and fear itself motivates them to seek to debunk. Out of sight, out of mind ...

    At any rate, whether it's UFOs, Devas, or whatever, the subject of Crop Circles deserves to be taken seriously ... Siriusly!!! :)

    My own belief is that this is most likely extraterrestrial, as so many of the patterns include universal, or archteypal symbols - clearly (at least to me) being drawn to indicate various things to us. I cannot claim to fully understand EACH and every symbol or pattern, nor do I hold that just because it's complicated or suggestive, it's NOT a hoax, or it IS "ET." I just say, let's be sensible about this ...

    What amuses me, is that someone could actually browse through several dozen, several score ... or if you like, several HUNDRED of these crop circles - some quite astonishing, beautiful, even inspiring ... and then still say a thing like, "oh, ha ha, we know that they are hoaxed, get over it." :(

    Perhaps those who are the most easily convinced by reading the hoaxers' stories, and watching shows where the science of crop circles is never even investigated ... have also not bothered to look at SEVERAL DOZEN (let alone several hundred) crop circle photos. I would encourage you to look further. :)

    So, again, out of the total number of crop circles, only a small percentage can be definitively shown & proven to have been hoaxed. I don't know the number, but if we give the liberal estimate of 10% ... you skeptics out there still have A LOT of explaining to do.

    Start, if you don't mind, by reading the article linked above - pursue it further if you like, for more detailed information - THEN come back and tell us how & why all these crop circles can be shown as hoaxes! ;)
     
  8. Ciel

    Ciel in essence

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    Hi, Ardenz, Welcome back.

    Okay, here is a person who believes in crop circles to be something of another dimension. I also know some are man made.

    But here is a person who also sees the thing known as faeries....... and other etheric light forms.
    And when the green ray is in attendance nature reveals it's self in a vast array of simalacrum in natural form.

    Aware of the possibilities of the possible shown through interchangable dimensional perception and consciousness.........................

    ......I'm trying to say...... anything is possible.

    A sense of wonder is a beautiful thing.

    - c -
     
  9. ardenz

    ardenz New Member

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  10. Ciel

    Ciel in essence

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    Ardenz,

    :) I am so very happy to meet another who understands. :)

    The first circle I encountered was back in the early nineteen nineties and the feeling was an overwhelming empathy, the very sense of not being alone. It's true I was more highly tuned to those things at the time, it's also true there is more than one intelligence at play in this world. The thing many might call extraterrestial I would call interdimensional.

    - c -​
     
  11. flowperson

    flowperson Oannes

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    Hi all...Because of my long associations with scientists and engineers, I'm very uncomfortable declaring that anything is a hoax or 100% bogus when I believe that not all of the information is in yet, or has not been sufficiently analyzed. My opinion is that's what we're dealing with here.

    There are some circles that have been man-made, and some that seem unlikely to have arisen that way. In the interest of providing more information for analysis by us all, I'm providing links to a thread from another site that I frequent. There are many smart and serious people there that respect each other's opinions. Kind of like this place. They've even tied some of this into discussions regarding the Apostle Paul.

    Enjoy !

    flow....;) http://forum.ttbrown.com/viewtopic.php?t=453&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
     
  12. ardenz

    ardenz New Member

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    thanks flow...

    the Apostle Paul and crop circles !!

    I just think that if they are hoaxes, where are the practice ones ?
    some of these designs are just some complicated - yes ok perhaps to work out on a piece of paper or computer, but not on a large scale in a big field at night with a farmer watching out.

    and some of the patterns are just amazing

    cheers

    ard
     
  13. Postmaster

    Postmaster New Member

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    I watched a documentary on crop circles.. They followed a group of well known crop circle makers round and watched how they made very complex designs in hours on private land. I've not seen anything more complex then what they were making. It's all about method and geometry. Get a piece of string and nail it to the ground, grab the other end of it and follow it round while using a simple stick to accurately bend the crops and treading them down has already simply got you a circle in 2 minutes. Now imagine how you can manipulate the compass effect on crop circles. The more adventurous ones use other methods to get a whole variation of different shapes and sizes, geometric and non geometric.

    Many farmers have been known to charge people to view crop circles on there farms. Some may even ask for permission to produce a crop circle and get it. To other farmers its a nuisance.
     
  14. taijasi

    taijasi Gnōthi seauton

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    Way to address the scientifically verifiable changes at cellular levels .... :p

    I'm still waiting for a refutation of the points I listed. Anyone read the article? :eek:

    This is precisely how we know that boards and string are NOT being used for the vast majority of the circles.

    Of course, this is to say nothing about all the electronic equipment that gets affected in crop circles, or the more subjective experiences of those who go into them. This may be less measurable than the points I've already raised, but as far as the boards & string idea - all it takes is one genuine crop circle, to reveal the hoaxers for the glory glory seekers that they are.

    Except that we've got thousands ... (okay, hundreds, I dunno, but you get the idea ;) )
     
  15. Ciel

    Ciel in essence

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    In agreement Andrew,

    And what do those other dimension circle makers make of the reply circles the Earth people create, is it a subconscious response, or the sublime of exterior dimension working through them........ or one and the same............

    - c -
     
  16. Pathless

    Pathless Fiercely Interdependent

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    Aw, I love the way you are always scientifically objective.

    Bah!! No I don't!! Why do you have to pooh-pooh on mystery with all of this *science* gobbedlygook??!! What exactly is it that you are afraid of not being able to explain away?

    ;)

    :D
     
  17. Pathless

    Pathless Fiercely Interdependent

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    Yes. A simple explanation for everything.

    But what about the people who are perpertrating these hoazes over time? Let's think about that. Who are they? Are they a dedicated inner-circle group? Or are they a loosely-knit anarchist conglomerate? Do they have an agenda? Are they out to just play global pranks, or are they getting a cut from the farmers? What's their motivation? Seriously, would any of *you* naysayers spend valuable time traveling, researching symbolism, thinking up patterns of movement, networking with cooperative farmers, covering your tracks, and the like, simply to continue an almost two-decades long hoax?

    No, I don't think these crop circles are hoaxes. But I do think that they freak people out, and some people like to run from them because they are strange, seeking to explain them away, make them familiar. This to me is similar to many academics who spend their time engaged in various pedantries, arguing a point for years, dissecting it, refining it and complicating it from their particular angle, dismissing the possibilities of other perspectives, because to do so would shake their clung-to "scientific" beliefs. But science shouldn't be about clinging, it was supposed to be about inquiry and exploring. It is not only about disproving, but having a sense of wonder. And I guess that is what irritates me most--where is the sense of wonder?

    Pardon my digression and rant...

    :eek:
     
  18. ardenz

    ardenz New Member

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    you are not digressing and ranting, Pathless...

    this thread is in the Alternative section, even though I did ask at the start as to whether these could be hoaxes or not, I was posing the question as to what they could mean?

    As it is in this section are we not able to digress and ask ourselves questions as to a mysterious source? Isn't mystery what we discuss at comparative religions ?

    The book I mentioned at the beginning:Vital Signs by Andy Thomas was a fairly balanced account, written by someone who is in a group who monitor and measure Crop circles in Wiltshire.

    F**k Wikipedia

    some of the more recent ones seem to have global imagery, lines of longtitude.... Temporary Temples - Image Library - It is interesting to see the progression year on year. I agree, Pathless, how could a group of hoaxers have been planning and making these complicated patterns year on year.

    [​IMG]

    try making this one with a bit of string and boards - the perspective is amazing - kind of like looking down from ontop of skyscrapers with a twelve pointed star central

    ardenz
     
  19. bgruagach

    bgruagach eclectic Wiccan

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    Apparent changes to the plants at the cellular level found in crop circles are not exactly undisputed proof that crop circles are of supernatural or extraterrestrial origin. There are some skeptical articles on precisely this point at Special Crop Circles which should be read if you are serious about settling the controversy. (Note that the website lists the most recent material at the top -- reading the articles linked there from the bottom to the top would take you through the chronology of articles.)

    There is also some rather harsh criticism of the claims of cellular changes in this skeptical FAQ page about crop circles.
     
  20. flowperson

    flowperson Oannes

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    Ardenz...Thanks for the image. Here's more about that particular one:

    http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/anasazi/waylandsmithy2007a.html

    There are imagery precedents for this stuff which occur in one of the more mysterious documents which was believed to have been created in the mid-fifteenth century called the Voynich Manuscript. It is housed in a rare document library at Yale University and you can find out all that is known to date and has been made public here:

    http://www.voynich.nu/

    The particular images I was referring to as relevant to the crop image that you posted are here:

    http://www.voynich.nu/q09/index.html#f67

    By the way, The Rand Corporation studied the as yet uncoded Voyich Manuscript in great detail in the 80's and early 90's but have not made their findings (if any) public. Looks like they privatized their efforts beginning in the 90's and of course it's all behind the veil now. This is something I've been following for about fifteen years now, and my opinion is that it has to do with primal Creation techniques and skills. Have fun !

    flow....:cool:
     

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