I cannot imagine

okieinexile

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By Bobby Neal Winters

The other night might wife went to pick up my daughter at a place where our daughter had told us she would be, and she was not there. Jean is, ordinarily, a mild woman and not given to anger, and yet when she came into the house the phrase, “Where is she?” rattled the pictures on the walls. We contacted our daughter on the cell phone that she hadn’t used to tell us where she was going and found that she was safe and sound. Jean’s anger abated somewhat after that. Anger can be a channel for fear. We love our children and live in fear that they ever would be harmed.

I cannot imagine the death of one of my children. Even the writing of that sentence caused tears to well into my eyes. There is a natural order to things, and when a child dies before the parent, it reverses that natural order. This is true especially today when medical science has shielded us from the ravages child mortality wrought on our forebears in previous generations and still does in other parts of the world.

This is not as distant from us as we might think. My Grandma Winters was the youngest of 12 children, only 8 of which survived beyond infancy. She herself had five children, and while all of them lived well into adulthood and had children themselves, she outlived all but two of her own children. My brother and I were her youngest grandsons, and when my Aunt Sis passed-away, my brother and I each held an elbow as grandma walked forward to view the body. Then in her nineties, she looked into the casket and said, "That's my baby girl."

My Uncle Dave, now almost 86, tells the story about his own uncle, Tunce. Tunce and his wife had lost a child in infancy. They lowered the tiny coffin into the ground, and as they were too poor to buy a stone marker, Tunce carved a "W", for "Winters", on one end of a one-by-four and drove the other end into the ground. By God's Grace and the advances of medicine, the current generation of my family has been spared this.

We've lost from our collective experience the knowledge of how to cope with the loss of a child, or maybe what we’ve lost is the knowledge there is no way to cope.

In such times, we look to the ancient wisdom found in the Bible. Here, we need to be careful as to where we look. The warrior Jephthah, in the book of Judges, offered his favorite daughter as a human sacrifice because of a rash oath he had made. Better comfort is found in the story of David.

When David's wife Bathsheba lost the child, who had been conceived in their adultery, David consoled her and gave her another child. When his son Absalom is killed while rebelling against him, David mourns aloud saying, "Absalom, Absalom, would that I had died instead." Even a for King, even in a time when the death of a child was common, even when the child was in violent rebellion, the pain of the death of a child was total. We would choose death ourselves rather than lose one of our children.

In the Christian tradition, we can put our pain with God's pain at the death of his Son on a cross; if we cannot imagine God in pain, then we can think of Mary at the foot of the Cross. But our pain will always be there. It is like a large rock with sharp edges in a field. Weeds and rocks and vines grow up around it and hide it from us, but occasionally we run into in again and cut ourselves on it. It is still there, still as big and sharp as ever. At least I suppose that it is. That is the way it is with my father's death.

How much harder would be the death of a child than the death of a parent? How much sharper that loss? I've never lost a child. And saying so brings fear to my heart. The love of our children is so deep, so primal, that it is entwined with superstition. Will my boasting of good fortune bring down a curse upon me? I don’t want to ever know.
 
What's the link, please...

On coping with the loss of a child, Okie writes:

In such times, we look to the ancient wisdom found in the Bible. Here, we need to be careful as to where we look. The warrior Jephthah, in the book of Judges, offered his favorite daughter as a human sacrifice because of a rash oath he had made. Better comfort is found in the story of David.

May I request, dear friend Okie, to show me how the sacrifice of his daughter by Jephthah has a bearing on your point about the difficulty of coping with the loss of a child, and what wisdom from the Bible could be gleaned from this incident, again regarding the pain of coping with the loss of a child.

The way I see it, the incident of Jephthah sacrificing his own daughter, because he vowed to sacrifice the first of his household that would come out to meet him on his victory over the Ammonites: that incident – one of many such instances -- does not show any wisdom at all in the worship of Jahweh among the Old Testament personalities.

The fatalistic rigor of an oath to Jahweh is an indication of the mechanistic idea the Jews in the Bible have of their God. God for them works like a doomsday machine that can’t be reversed nor stopped once you push the button.

It is a God that can’t be intelligent and can’t make allowances for rash promises of imperfect human minds, which is exactly the concept the Jews have of their God.

Once you make a promise to God, even though how inequitable and even perverse the promise, God holds you inexorably to the performance of that promise.

So that if it is stupid to have made a rash promise to God, spelling disaster, you are bound to continue with more stupidity by implementing the disastrous promise to God, bringing about catastrophe to yourself or to fellow men, even members of your own household.


I know one father of a family that can retract a promise when he sees it to be rash in hindsight, and opts not to fulfill the promise whatever the sanctity of his word.

Once I promised my two kids that when they reached a certain age I would get them each a car. When the time came I decided for better reasons not to give them each a car. So I told them and why, but they insisted that I promised them.

I explained to them that a promise is made founded upon favorable prospects, when the prospects should turn out to be unfavorable and even foreboding, I would be irresponsible in continuing to honor the promise, solely on the idea of my word of honor, in which case I would already be acting against intelligence to keep good my word which now is stupid.

We all, my kids and I, learned from that incident, that whatever I promise them or appear to promise them, they should consider that at most to be a desire to do this or that for them for their benefit; and they should not impose on me by appealing to the irrevocable fatalistic duress of a promise; in which case they would be exploiting a slavish superstition against me.

Susma Rio Sep
 
Zen (((Hug))) and :kitty: to you, okieinexile.

You have brought up a very imporrtant idea, yet I can go one further: if one's child/sibling/parent jus vanishes without a trace. At least with (absolute) death, there is closure. What I mean by absolute death is that there is something left behind to show that the person has "gone on" (like when I helped see my mother off to the next realm.) When there are no remains, there can't be an absolute knowledge that the person is gone, and that uncertainty is (to me) far more painful than the certainty that you can "let go" (just thinking about this one girl who disappeared last June and there are still no traces of where she is if she's alive.)

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine
 
You mean physical remains...

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine said:
...

When there are no remains, there can't be an absolute knowledge that the person is gone, and that uncertainty is (to me) far more painful than the certainty that you can "let go" (just thinking about this one girl who disappeared last June and there are still no traces of where she is if she's alive.)

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

Nowadays there is always something that remains when a person goes missing without any trace, like birth registration records, school records, all kinds of photos, personal articles used by the person, etc.

Ultimately, a missing person is either dead or alive. If alive, either he is missing knowingly or unknowingly; if knowingly, either he wants to or he is coerced. If he wants to be missing to other people, then he must have some very important reasons or motivation to go missing.

We who are left behind should find out why a person wants to go missing voluntarily and knowingly, searching ourselves meticulously and also very important the person's history and character, we might just find the explanation.

If a person is missing without himself knowing that he is missing to other people, which is almost impossible to imagine, or if he is coerced by other people to go missing to his previous social background, in both cases the police should be able to help, even the Interpol.

With the Internet, it is now very feasible to search for the missing person for his last whereabouts and his situation. There must be or should be websites set up by good Internet experts with no other purpose than to help people look for missing people, some kind of international websites of missing persons, with everyone putting in his tidbits of information helpful to people who are searching.

Coming back to remains of missing people, there are always plenty of records and items used by the subject, short of bodily parts, And with computer technology you can produce a computer simulated even in 3D representation of the missing person, and interact with such a simulated person – very realistically, maybe even better than the real thing. I am sure someone must have such a program somewhere for sale or just for giveaway.

Susma Rio Sep
 
Originally posted by Susma Rio Sep
Nowadays there is always something that remains when a person goes missing without any trace, like birth registration records, school records, all kinds of photos, personal articles used by the person, etc.

You misunderstood what I wrote. I meant physical evidence of death (if the person is dead.) Even a femur or a tarsal bone can tell you whether a person was buried somewhere and aproximately how long ago. Cases in point: Westley Allan Dodd, James Mitchell "Mike" DeBardeleben, and Gary Ridgeway. You can read about their particular cases on Crime Library website (http://www.crimelibrary.com).

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine
 
Guidelines for mourning

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine said:
You misunderstood what I wrote. I meant physical evidence of death (if the person is dead.) Even a femur or a tarsal bone can tell you whether a person was buried somewhere and aproximately how long ago. Cases in point: Westley Allan Dodd, James Mitchell "Mike" DeBardeleben, and Gary Ridgeway. You can read about their particular cases on Crime Library website (http://www.crimelibrary.com).

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

Actually, not being argumentative, I do understand what you mean.

Just that I am directing your attention to the other alternative possibility of a missing person, that he is alive but not wanting to present himself to people who are wondering whether he is alive or not.

So, if you read my post again, I think I have some guidelines to suggest in regard to our distress in the face of a loved one missing.

For, since we don't know for certain whether he is alive or not, then we can also proceed to speculate on the why's of his missing status, i.e., to us, on the assumption that he is alive but not wanting to present himself to us.

Now, if we do assume that he is dead, then we are faced with the drama of mourning, even though simply on the assumption; for we do not know for certain unless and until physical evidence has been located.

Relative to mourning for a person missing and we assume to be dead, then as we enact the mourning process we must take care that it does not last indefinitely.

As with everything in the conscious life, every phase is a drama -- not however depreciating its significance for being a drama: it is one drama that is not optional in the sense of you can walk off the stage.

After the decent period of the mourning drama has transpired and you have done your duty, then life must go on. Otherwise, the drama drawn into interminable length would be certainly unhealthy and thereby counterproductive to the first instinct of life, which is to live.

Susma Rio Sep
 
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