[from G. Riggs; not Eliz. H., my better half]
Some of the postings here concerning points of intersection among different beliefs and -- related to that -- the earliest formulations of those beliefs before the accumulation of additional cultural developments, as detected by modern scholarship (occasionally in disagreement), have all contributed to starting a train of thought in my mind.
Hannah Arendt (I believe?) assembled in a separate volume those four sections of Jaspers' exhaustive philosophers survey that dealt, specifically, with the four "founders" Jaspers felt were arguably the most pioneering, the most ethically rigorous and the most globally influential: Buddha, Confucius, Socrates, Jesus (in chronological order).
All I've done here, to stimulate thoughtful discussion hopefully, is assembled four primary texts that may come closest to representing each "philosopher"'s authentic voice, according to the latest findings of modern scholarship.
For Buddha, approximately half of the Pali Digha-Nikaya collection of longer sermons is now reckoned as the earliest stratum of Buddha material we have. In that earliest stratum of roughly fifteen Suttas (called Sutras in the less authentic Sanskrit), we have probably the earliest extant exposition of Buddha's fundamental concept of the Four Noble Truths: Digha Nikaya 22: Maha-satipatthana Sutta/The Great Frames of Reference. The Four Noble Truths concept is expounded in Section 5 of this Sutta, and I've extracted that below. Also central are concepts related to Brahma, expounded in XIII. Tevijja Sutta: On Knowledge Of The Vedas, from which I’ve extracted nos. 39 - 40, and nos. 76 - 81.
For Confucius, The Analects is now judged the earliest source of direct anecdotal material, and Chapters 3 through 9 have been generally judged the earliest stratum in The Analects. More recently, though, Chapters 4 through 8 have been isolated as particularly close to Confucius' own time, and I've extracted readouts below of Chapters 4, 7 and 8.
The general consensus appears to be that the older Plato was the more he used Socrates as a mere mouthpiece for his own ideas in his later Dialogues. But his earliest Dialogues are generally judged as reasonably honest attempts by a highly retentive mind to reproduce Socrates' own thoughts, particularly the Euthyphro, the Apology and the Crito. The Apology represents Socrates’ Defense at his trial before being executed. I have extracted, from that, nos. 20e - 23b on the Delphic Oracle, and nos. 28b - 32a dealing with Socrates' exposition of what he conceives to be his mission.
The most recent scholarly consensus on the Gospels concerning Jesus Christ is that the so-called Synoptic Gospels, Mark, Matthew and Luke, come from a slightly earlier stratum than the Gospel of John (this in spite of the rather startling finding of a scrap of John from early in the second century C.E., the earliest physical scrap of Gospel text now extant). Key parallel sayings in both Matthew and Luke are now taken as reflective of a very early "sayings" Gospel (labeled Q for "Quelle"/source and now lost -- some view this as more an oral tradition than a written Gospel?), while Mark is taken to be the earliest extant Gospel. I have extracted a couple of anecdotes from Mark, along with a few parallel sayings more or less reflective of those anecdotes from the presumed Q tradition in Matthew/Luke (using the Luke text, generally taken as the more careful transmission).
Admittedly, such extracts for any of these four figures are based on pure speculation as to general authenticity, but the scholarship they reflect has been rigorously sifted by many through a long gestation period of well over a century in one or two instances, and it may be unlikely we will get any closer than this in, admittedly, a mere approximation of what these figures ultimately said.
For "Equal Time"<G>, I have tried to make each set of extracts roughly the same in length, and I hope that each section is short enough to enable the reader to grasp the general gist of where each "founder" is "coming from" at one sitting (each of the four sections comes to approximately seven printed pages apiece).
Having all four ranged alongside each other in this way, are there any immediate reflections others here may care to share? Reading these varied thoughts from all four one after the other, do users here find them unduly simplistic? extremely profound? unclear and/or muddled?
There may be a myriad of responses. Who knows?
Anyway, it seemed an intriguing exercise, IMO, and so I offer these, FWIW.
I've simply used translations that are in the public domain, all copy/pasted from the Internet.
In the interests of basic courtesy, I have placed the separate extracts in separate postings.
Cheers,
Geoffrey Riggs
Some of the postings here concerning points of intersection among different beliefs and -- related to that -- the earliest formulations of those beliefs before the accumulation of additional cultural developments, as detected by modern scholarship (occasionally in disagreement), have all contributed to starting a train of thought in my mind.
Hannah Arendt (I believe?) assembled in a separate volume those four sections of Jaspers' exhaustive philosophers survey that dealt, specifically, with the four "founders" Jaspers felt were arguably the most pioneering, the most ethically rigorous and the most globally influential: Buddha, Confucius, Socrates, Jesus (in chronological order).
All I've done here, to stimulate thoughtful discussion hopefully, is assembled four primary texts that may come closest to representing each "philosopher"'s authentic voice, according to the latest findings of modern scholarship.
For Buddha, approximately half of the Pali Digha-Nikaya collection of longer sermons is now reckoned as the earliest stratum of Buddha material we have. In that earliest stratum of roughly fifteen Suttas (called Sutras in the less authentic Sanskrit), we have probably the earliest extant exposition of Buddha's fundamental concept of the Four Noble Truths: Digha Nikaya 22: Maha-satipatthana Sutta/The Great Frames of Reference. The Four Noble Truths concept is expounded in Section 5 of this Sutta, and I've extracted that below. Also central are concepts related to Brahma, expounded in XIII. Tevijja Sutta: On Knowledge Of The Vedas, from which I’ve extracted nos. 39 - 40, and nos. 76 - 81.
For Confucius, The Analects is now judged the earliest source of direct anecdotal material, and Chapters 3 through 9 have been generally judged the earliest stratum in The Analects. More recently, though, Chapters 4 through 8 have been isolated as particularly close to Confucius' own time, and I've extracted readouts below of Chapters 4, 7 and 8.
The general consensus appears to be that the older Plato was the more he used Socrates as a mere mouthpiece for his own ideas in his later Dialogues. But his earliest Dialogues are generally judged as reasonably honest attempts by a highly retentive mind to reproduce Socrates' own thoughts, particularly the Euthyphro, the Apology and the Crito. The Apology represents Socrates’ Defense at his trial before being executed. I have extracted, from that, nos. 20e - 23b on the Delphic Oracle, and nos. 28b - 32a dealing with Socrates' exposition of what he conceives to be his mission.
The most recent scholarly consensus on the Gospels concerning Jesus Christ is that the so-called Synoptic Gospels, Mark, Matthew and Luke, come from a slightly earlier stratum than the Gospel of John (this in spite of the rather startling finding of a scrap of John from early in the second century C.E., the earliest physical scrap of Gospel text now extant). Key parallel sayings in both Matthew and Luke are now taken as reflective of a very early "sayings" Gospel (labeled Q for "Quelle"/source and now lost -- some view this as more an oral tradition than a written Gospel?), while Mark is taken to be the earliest extant Gospel. I have extracted a couple of anecdotes from Mark, along with a few parallel sayings more or less reflective of those anecdotes from the presumed Q tradition in Matthew/Luke (using the Luke text, generally taken as the more careful transmission).
Admittedly, such extracts for any of these four figures are based on pure speculation as to general authenticity, but the scholarship they reflect has been rigorously sifted by many through a long gestation period of well over a century in one or two instances, and it may be unlikely we will get any closer than this in, admittedly, a mere approximation of what these figures ultimately said.
For "Equal Time"<G>, I have tried to make each set of extracts roughly the same in length, and I hope that each section is short enough to enable the reader to grasp the general gist of where each "founder" is "coming from" at one sitting (each of the four sections comes to approximately seven printed pages apiece).
Having all four ranged alongside each other in this way, are there any immediate reflections others here may care to share? Reading these varied thoughts from all four one after the other, do users here find them unduly simplistic? extremely profound? unclear and/or muddled?
There may be a myriad of responses. Who knows?
Anyway, it seemed an intriguing exercise, IMO, and so I offer these, FWIW.
I've simply used translations that are in the public domain, all copy/pasted from the Internet.
In the interests of basic courtesy, I have placed the separate extracts in separate postings.
Cheers,
Geoffrey Riggs
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