The Book of Certitude (186-89)

Discussion in 'Baha'i' started by Ahanu, Dec 7, 2007.

  1. Ahanu

    Ahanu Well-Known Member

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    189: "We have variously and repeatedly set forth the meaning of every theme, that perchance every soul, whether high or low, may obtain, according to his measure and capacity, his share and portion thereof. Should he be unable to comprehend a certain argument, he may, thus, by referring unto another, attain his purpose. “That all sorts of men may know where to quench their thirst.”
    (Baha'u'llah, Book of Certitude)

    Resurrection awareness

    9:9 Jesus gave them orders not to tell anyone what they had seen until the Son of Man had risen from the dead.
    9:10 They kept the matter to themselves, discussing what 'rising from the dead' meant.

    (NIV, Mark)

    The Bab said: "For example, from the inception of the mission of Jesus—may peace be upon Him—till the day of His ascension was the Resurrection of Moses."

    Bahá'í Reference Library - Selections From the Writings of the Báb, Pages 106-108

    12:26 Now about the dead rising—have you not read in the book of Moses, in the account of the bush, how God said to him, 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
    (NIV, Mark)

    "When the Apostle of God appeared, He did not announce unto the unbelievers that the Resurrection had come, for they could not bear the news. That Day is indeed an infinitely mighty Day, for in it the Divine Tree proclaimeth from eternity unto eternity, ‘Verily, I am God. No God is there but Me’."

    Bahá'í Reference Library - Selections From the Writings of the Báb, Pages 78-79

    186: "And it came to pass that on a certain day a needy man came to visit this Soul, craving for the ocean of His knowledge. While conversing with him, mention was made concerning the signs of the Day of Judgment, Resurrection, Revival, and Reckoning. He urged Us to explain how, in this wondrous Dispensation, the peoples of the world were brought to a reckoning, when none were made aware of it. Thereupon, We imparted unto him, according to the measure of his capacity and understanding, certain truths of Science and ancient Wisdom. We then asked him saying: “Hast thou not read the Qur’án, and art thou not aware of this blessed verse: ‘On that day shall neither man nor spirit be asked of his Sin?’ (Qur’án 55:39) Dost thou not realize that by ‘asking’ is not meant asking by tongue or speech, even as the verse itself doth indicate and prove? For afterward it is said: ‘By their countenance shall the sinners be known, and they shall be seized by their forelocks and their feet (Qur’án 55:41).’”
    (Baha'u'llah, Book of Certitude)

    Bahá'í Reference Library - The Kitáb-i-Íqán, Pages 161-200



    186-189 are some of my favorite lines from The Book of Certitude thus far. It just makes the "meaning of the themes" make sense. Notice that Baha'u'llah is asking his readers to ponder verses of scripture with and understanding heart. Besides Baha'u'llah and the Bab, I have been thinking that maybe it is good to stay away from other commentators of scripture. I can't remember reading a commentary on the bible that tells me to "reflect" or read with my "heart".

    The verses above also remind me of Baha'u'llah talking about the resurrection of mankind. . .

     
  2. Sean H.

    Sean H. Member

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    I enjoy listening to your thoughts Ahanu. It's amazing to me how different aspects of religious subjects affect people. I agree with you that you should be careful about commentary; it takes a pure heart and open mind to come to certain truths.
     
  3. Ahanu

    Ahanu Well-Known Member

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    If I am taking a verse out of context, let me know.

    14 Keep reminding them of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen.

    15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.

    16 Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.

    17 Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus,

    18 who have wandered away from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some.

    19 Nevertheless, God's solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: "The Lord knows those who are his and, "Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness."

    (NIV, 2 Timothy)

    I believe the world view is that this verse means there were some preaching a spiritual awakening that already passed. Because the resurrection is not a day of 24 hours, I was speculating that the resurrection may be exempt from time.

    Bahá'í Reference Library - Bahá’u’lláh and the New Era, Pages 220-222

    Moreover, Jesus said: "I am the resurrection," when talking to Martha. So, according to the Baha'i belief, John 11:25-26 means that He is about to give everlasting life to the dead, yet Jesus is still walking the earth.

    The resurrection reminds me of Abdul-Baha saying that the Creator can be likened to the Sun.

    Bahá'í Reference Library - Some Answered Questions, Pages 280-281

    That is why the Bab said: "The Day of Resurrection is a day on which the sun riseth and setteth like unto any other day. How oft hath the Day of Resurrection dawned, and the people of the land where it occurred did not learn of the event. Had they heard, they would not have believed, and thus they were not told!"

    This is also similar to the words of Ezekiel in the old testament.

    Then he said to me:

    11Then he said to me: "Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. They say, 'Our bones are dried up and our hope is gone; we are cut off.'

    12 Therefore prophesy and say to them: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: O my people, I am going to open your graves and bring you up from them; I will bring you back to the land of Israel.

    13 Then you, my people, will know that I am the LORD, when I open your graves and bring you up from them.

    14 I will put my Spirit in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land. Then you will know that I the LORD have spoken, and I have done it, declares the LORD.' "

    So, during Israel's spiritual dislocation, it is time for them to wake up to the dawn of resurrection. This is also somewhat similar to Matthew 27:52-53.

    Finally, check this out. . .

    MyJewishLearning.com - Ideas & Belief: Christianity in Context

    BTW, I stole this link from "Saltmeister." It was pretty good. :D

    However, I could be wrong!:eek:
     
  4. Ahanu

    Ahanu Well-Known Member

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    oops. . .bible verses from 2 Timothy chapter 2 and Ezekiel chapter 37.
     
  5. Sean H.

    Sean H. Member

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    I really enjoy these quotes Ahanu. Its really some good stuff. It seems obvious to me that the Bible is concerned with spiritual matters.

    What do you think of the quotes in John and in the Qur'an referring to the last day?

    As a side note: I'm not entirely sure that some of the Jews that became Christians would stop believing in Christ because there wasn't a literal resurrection of the dead afterwards. I would hope that by Jesus's words that such things would be taken spiritually especially when he said quotes like this...

    6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
    (King James Bible, John)


    I would hope that they didn't think that Jesus was literally bread. :)
     
  6. Ahanu

    Ahanu Well-Known Member

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    During the Medieval period, transubstantiation was the belief that as the bread was being digested. . .it miraculously transformed into the flesh of Christ. Uh, no wonder the Muslims thought the Christians to be insane!

    Which quotes? You must be talking about these. . .

    1:7 Look, he is coming with the clouds,
    and every eye will see him,
    even those who pierced him;
    and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen.
    (NIV, Revelation)

    25. The Day the heaven shall be rent asunder with clouds, and angels shall be sent down, descending (in ranks) --
    26. That Day, the dominion as of right and truth, shall be (wholly) for (Allah) Most Merciful: it will be a day of dire difficulty for the Misbelievers.
    (The Qur'an (Yusuf Ali tr), Surah 25)

    Well, they should obviously not be taken literally. At the moment I have no other comment for them.
     
  7. Popeyesays

    Popeyesays New Member

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    But Jesus WAS the Bread of Life. Doesn't mean he was made of flour, salt, yeast and water, of course--it's allegorical as are the quotes from John and the Qur'an.

    Regareds,
    Scott
     
  8. Opal

    Opal New Member

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    Thou shalt not steal :p
     
  9. Opal

    Opal New Member

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    In my opinion its written in that way because im pretty sure back then people assumed God lived in the clouds (in the sky). So obviously, Jesus (or the promised one) is going to come down from the clouds because thats where God lives and Jesus/whoever comes from God
     
  10. Dah-veeth

    Dah-veeth Abeja Maya

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    I looooooooove the Book of Certitude!

    "In fact, all the Scriptures and the mysteries thereof are condensed into this brief account." -Baha'u'llah
     
  11. Ahanu

    Ahanu Well-Known Member

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    I should look into the historical developments that influenced Christianity and Judaism thought on the resurrection. I say I scratch all these verses I quoted because I need to start over fresh. For I just found out that many mystery religions had an influence on Christianity from the start.
     
  12. Dah-veeth

    Dah-veeth Abeja Maya

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    There's a Bible dictionary, I'm sorry I don't which one, but it's a Christian one, and it says that resurrection is spiritual revivification. So some Christians agree with Baha'is on resurrection.

    "In the year sixty He Who heralded the light of Divine Guidance -- may all creation be a sacrifice unto Him -- arose to announce a fresh revelation of the Divine Spirit, and was followed, twenty years later, by Him through Whose coming the world was made the recipient of this promised glory, this wondrous favour. Behold how the generality of mankind hath been endued with the capacity to hearken unto God's most exalted Word -- the Word upon which must depend the gathering together and spiritual resurrection of all men." -Baha'u'llah

     
  13. Ahanu

    Ahanu Well-Known Member

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    True but this does not agree with orthodox christianity. From what I have experienced. . .if a person does not agree with the bodily resurrection, then their an heretic. A good example is that when you do a search of Martin Luther King jr. you will find sites trying to expose him, because he never believed in the bodily resurrection of Christ. I really like his paper on the influence of mystery religions on christianity. I was wanting to look more into it. Methinks that Zorastrianism may have influenced Jewish thought on the resurrection.
     
  14. Dah-veeth

    Dah-veeth Abeja Maya

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    I think I got the word revivification wrong, I think what it said was that resurrection is spiritual resuscitation. I think I also heard on EWTN once, the Catholic channel, that Jesus' resurrected body could go through walls... like the Catholic channel was saying it was a spiritual, not physical, body. I wonder if anyone but me caught that ;)
     
  15. Dah-veeth

    Dah-veeth Abeja Maya

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    1Cor.15

    1. [40] There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
    Celestial means heavenly and terrestrial means earthly... there are also heavenly (spiritual) bodies, and bodies earthly (physical): but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another.
     
  16. BruceDLimber

    BruceDLimber Baha'i

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    Hi, there! :)

    One clarification that should help in re "the last day" and in particular "the end of the world" is this:

    The word in the original Greek New Testament is "eras," which means "world" or "age."

    But the translators of the King James Bible picked the wrong meaning: hence all the talk about "the end of the world."

    What the text actually means is "the end of the Age," which in the Baha'i view already came and went a century and a half ago!

    Best regards, :)

    Bruce
     
  17. Dah-veeth

    Dah-veeth Abeja Maya

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    Yep, when the Bab came it wasn't the end of the world, it was the end of an age and the beginning of a new one. You could say, though, that it is a new world :)

    "The world's equilibrium hath been upset through the vibrating influence of this most great, this new World Order. Mankind's ordered life hath been revolutionized through the agency of this unique, this wondrous System -- the like of which mortal eyes have never witnessed." -Baha'u'llah




     

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