Paradise Is Near!

[mee]

Hi Mee,
It seems your use of Luke 12:32 is a bit of a stretch if that is support for the 144000.
Joe

WHY? 144,000 is a little flock compared to the rest REVELATION 7;9-10 It is a little flock in comparison to the GREAT CROWD from all nations ,



even now there are about 7 million all around the earth who are waving their symbolic palm branches , and not forgetting the ones that will be resurrected at a future time, who are dead in the grave right now John 5;28-29

yes i would say that 144,000 are a little flock ,and that is no stretch of the imagination. it is very clear to see, and the GREAT CROWD becomes a bigger crowd every day .

 

[mee]

Hi Mee,
At the start of this thread you claim that "paradise is near". I've yet to be convinced that this is correct. You can't seem to come up with hard evidence to show this as true. The claim that such a great transformation of our world is at hand would be great news to all the earth, something many have been waiting for. Again I'm going to ask for times and dates, if you don't have any then maybe your message here is not quite true.
Joe

1914 is the date that bible prophecy and chronology point too . but as for a DAY AND HOUR regarding the time when JEHOVAH steps into the affairs of man , the bible tells us that no man knows that day or hour , but one thing is for sure ,we are well along into bible prophecy and we are well along into the time of the end .


paradise conditions are not with us as yet ,because man is still ruling as yet. but when Jehovah has crushed all the human goverments and rulerships out the way then his kingdom can rule without the influence of the great opposer (satan) it is just as DANIEL 2;44 says


And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite; daniel 2;44



the heavenly kingdom was set up in 1914, and it was while those kings or human goverments were still ruling , and as we can see it is Gods kingdom that will crush and put an end to all those other kingships.


then it will be real good .

 

[BlaznFattyz]

1914 is the date that bible prophecy and chronology point too .

i believe the word is fabrication.

 

[Joedjr]

Hi Mee

1914 is the date that bible prophecy and chronology point too.

evidence please

paradise conditions are not with us as yet

didn't think they were

then it will be real good .

sounds good

Joe

 

[Joedjr]

WHY? 144,000 is a little flock compared to the rest REVELATION 7;9-10 It is a little flock in comparison to the GREAT CROWD from all nations ,

Hi Mee,
You don't mind if I brought in a little more of Luke 12? From the NASB.

12:1 Under these circumstances, after so many thousands of people had gathered together that they were stepping on one another, He began saying to His disciples first of all, "Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees,

29: "And do not seek what you will eat and what you will drink, and do not keep worrying.

30: "For all these things the nations of the world eagerly seek; but your Father knows that you need these things.

31: "But seek His kingdom, and these things will be added to you.

32: "Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has chosen gladly to give you the kingdom.

33: "Sell your possessions and give to charity; make yourselves money belts which do not wear out, an unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near nor moth destroys.

From Revelation 7
3: Saying "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees until we have sealed the bond-servants of our G!d on their foreheads."

4:And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:

5:from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand,

Sorry, I don't see the relationship between these two bible passages.
Joe

 

[mee]

i believe the word is fabrication.

For YOU know this first, that in the last days there will come ridiculers with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires 4 and saying: "Where is this promised presence of his? Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep [in death], all things are continuing exactly as from creation’s beginning."

(2Pe 3:3, 4)

Christs Presence (Parousia)​

Mt 24:3—Gr., τὸ σημει̃ον τη̃ς ση̃ς παρουσίας ​

yes there is much ridicule when it comes to christs PRESENCE (PAROUSIA)​

 

[mee]

Hi Mee



evidence please






Joe

THIS IS JUST ONE but there are many signs inline with the bible
.






1914 A Significant Year in Bible Prophecy

DECADES in advance, Bible students proclaimed that there would be significant developments in 1914. What were these, and what evidence points to 1914 as such an important year?




As recorded at Luke 21:24, Jesus said: "Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations ["the times of the Gentiles," King James Version] are fulfilled." Jerusalem had been the capital city of the Jewish nation—the seat of rulership of the line of kings from the house of King David. (Psalm 48:1, 2) However, these kings were unique among national leaders. They sat on "Jehovah’s throne" as representatives of God himself. (1 Chronicles 29:23) Jerusalem was thus a symbol of Jehovah’s rulership.



How and when, though, did God’s rulership begin to be "trampled on by the nations"? This happened in 607 B.C.E. when Jerusalem was conquered by the Babylonians. "Jehovah’s throne" became vacant, and the line of kings who descended from David was interrupted. (2 Kings 25:1-26) Would this ‘trampling’ go on forever? No, for the prophecy of Ezekiel said regarding Jerusalem’s last king, Zedekiah: "Remove the turban, and lift off the crown. . . . It will certainly become no one’s until he comes who has the legal right, and I must give it to him." (Ezekiel 21:26, 27) The one who has "the legal right" to the Davidic crown is Christ Jesus. (Luke 1:32, 33) So the ‘trampling’ would end when Jesus became King.
When would that grand event occur? Jesus showed that the Gentiles would rule for a fixed period of time. The account in Daniel chapter 4 holds the key to knowing how long that period would last. It relates a prophetic dream experienced by King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon. He saw an immense tree that was chopped down. Its stump could not grow because it was banded with iron and copper. An angel declared: "Let seven times pass over it."—Daniel 4:10-16.



In the Bible, trees are sometimes used to represent rulership. (Ezekiel 17:22-24; 31:2-5) So the chopping down of the symbolic tree represents how God’s rulership, as expressed through the kings at Jerusalem, would be interrupted. However, the vision served notice that this ‘trampling of Jerusalem’ would be temporary—a period of "seven times." How long a period is that?



Revelation 12:6, 14 indicates that three and a half times equal "a thousand two hundred and sixty days." "Seven times" would therefore last twice as long, or 2,520 days. But the Gentile nations did not stop ‘trampling’ on God’s rulership a mere 2,520 days after Jerusalem’s fall. Evidently, then, this prophecy covers a much longer period of time. On the basis of Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:6, which speak of "a day for a year," the "seven times" would cover 2,520 years.






The 2,520 years began in October 607 B.C.E., when Jerusalem fell to the Babylonians and the Davidic king was taken off his throne. The period ended in October 1914. At that time, "the appointed times of the nations" ended, and Jesus Christ was installed as God’s heavenly King.—Psalm 2:1-6; Daniel 7:13, 14.



Just as Jesus predicted, his "presence" as heavenly King has been marked by dramatic world developments—war, famine, earthquakes, pestilences. (Matthew 24:3-8; Luke 21:11) Such developments bear powerful testimony to the fact that 1914 indeed marked the birth of God’s heavenly Kingdom and the beginning of "the last days" of this present wicked system of things.—2 Timothy 3:1-5.







​

 

[mee]

Hi Mee,
You don't mind if I brought in a little more of Luke 12? From the NASB.

12:1 Under these circumstances, after so many thousands of people had gathered together that they were stepping on one another, He began saying to His disciples first of all, "Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees,

29: "And do not seek what you will eat and what you will drink, and do not keep worrying.

30: "For all these things the nations of the world eagerly seek; but your Father knows that you need these things.

31: "But seek His kingdom, and these things will be added to you.

32: "Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has chosen gladly to give you the kingdom.

33: "Sell your possessions and give to charity; make yourselves money belts which do not wear out, an unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near nor moth destroys.

From Revelation 7
3: Saying "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees until we have sealed the bond-servants of our G!d on their foreheads."

4:And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:

5:from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand,

Sorry, I don't see the relationship between these two bible passages.
Joe

yes the gathering of the little flock has been an on going thing for many years .

As the gathering of the "little flock" of Kingdom heirs neared completion, Jehovah directed attention to an even larger work, the educating of a "great crowd" who would survive the "great tribulation" to live on earth in a restored Paradise.

And I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel:revelation 7;4


revelation 7 speaks of the 144,000 which is from all nations , and they are SPIRITUAL Israelites (JEWS) but then it goes on to say AFTER THIS and then it goes on to speak about the GREAT CROWD .

This ever-increasing "great crowd" of worshipers is part of those described by Jesus as his "other sheep." (Revelation 7:9, 15; John 10:16)

They have the grand hope of living forever in an earthly paradise. (Psalm 37:29)

Jesus foretold that he would bring together these faithful followers of his after first giving his undivided shepherding attention to the gathering of a "little flock" of sheeplike ones toward whom he mediates the new covenant. (Luke 12:32; Hebrews 9:15)

Having in mind this gathering of two sheeplike classes of people into "one flock," we can understand why the apostle John stated that Jesus Christ "is a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins, yet not for ours only but also for the whole world’s."—1 John 2:1, 2.

 

[Joedjr]

yes the gathering of the little flock has been an on going thing for many years .

As the gathering of the "little flock" of Kingdom heirs neared completion, Jehovah directed attention to an even larger work, the educating of a "great crowd" who would survive the "great tribulation" to live on earth in a restored Paradise.

And I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel:revelation 7;4


revelation 7 speaks of the 144,000 which is from all nations , and they are SPIRITUAL Israelites (JEWS) but then it goes on to say AFTER THIS and then it goes on to speak about the GREAT CROWD .

This ever-increasing "great crowd" of worshipers is part of those described by Jesus as his "other sheep." (Revelation 7:9, 15; John 10:16)

They have the grand hope of living forever in an earthly paradise. (Psalm 37:29)

Jesus foretold that he would bring together these faithful followers of his after first giving his undivided shepherding attention to the gathering of a "little flock" of sheeplike ones toward whom he mediates the new covenant. (Luke 12:32; Hebrews 9:15)

Having in mind this gathering of two sheeplike classes of people into "one flock," we can understand why the apostle John stated that Jesus Christ "is a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins, yet not for ours only but also for the whole world’s."—1 John 2:1, 2.

Hi Mee,
So do you agree or disagree that the "little flock" in Luke 12:32 are the same 144000 spoken of in revelation 7:4? I'm looking for a one word answer here, straight to the point. Thanks
Joe

 

[Joedjr]

Hi Mee,

DECADES in advance, Bible students proclaimed that there would be significant developments in 1914. ​

I suspect that this should read more like this: ......advance, a select group of Bible students............ Many different schools of bible thought.
​

As recorded at Luke 21:24, Jesus said: "Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations ["the times of the Gentiles," King James Version] are fulfilled."

​

Do you mind, a little more from the NASB, Luke 21:
20: "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near.
21:"then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city;
22:because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled.
23:"Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people;
24:and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
25:"There will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves,
26:men fainting from fear and the expectation of the things which are coming upon the world; for the power of the heavens will be shaken.

When this bible passage was written, it seems the author was pointing to a future occurrence not something in history.

Joe

 

[17th Angel]

Is it me... lol, is it? Or for like the past 35235 posts you two have basically said;
I agree
yes I agree
Oh I agree
Yes I agree
I agree on that
I agree....

I think we can safley shut the book on the issue "are you in agreement?"

Ya crazies ya..

 

[mee]

Hi Mee,
So do you agree or disagree that the "little flock" in Luke 12:32 are the same 144000 spoken of in revelation 7:4? I'm looking for a one word answer here, straight to the point. Thanks
Joe

when Jesus was speaking to his followers in luke 12; 32 they would have been part of the 144,000 that are going to be with Jesus in heaven .
all of the followers at that time would have been a part of the 144,000 . but the gathering went on over the centuries since then .

Since Pentecost 33 C.E., these anointed, spirit-begotten ones have served as ambassadors of Christ on earth. (2 Corinthians 5:20) Today, only a remnant of them remain, serving together as the faithful and discreet slave class. (Matthew 24:45; Revelation 12:17)

and in one word they are the ones spoken of in REVELATION 7;4

The 144,000-strong little flock is “the Israel of God,” which has replaced natural Israel in God’s purposes. (Galatians 6:16)

But of cause the little flock would include natural individual Jews , along with ones from ALL NATIONS .


But Jehovah is nolonger using just one nation , because they are all SPIRITUAL Jews

But he is a Jew who is one on the inside, and [his] circumcision is that of the heart by spirit, and not by a written code. The praise of that one comes, not from men, but from God. ....romans 2;29


There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female; for YOU are all one [person] in union with Christ Jesus Galatians 3:28,

And all those who will walk orderly by this rule of conduct, upon them be peace and mercy, even upon the Israel of God .
Galatians 6:16

 

[mee]

Hi Mee,

I suspect that this should read more like this: ......advance, a select group of Bible students............ Many different schools of bible thought.
​

​

Joe

yes and those ones who were really wanting to know the truth , and were sincere in their bible study ,Jehovah has certainly blessed them with great insight and understanding .

i am afraid to say that many people were misled by false teachings and they fell asleep to bible prophecy. so yes as you say ,there were many schools of thought that led people away from the bible. and that in turn kept them in the dark about bible understanding .
instead they looked to their manmade traditions instead ... oh dear....

 

[mee]

Hi Mee,

I suspect that this should read more like this: ......advance, a select group of Bible students............ Many different schools of bible thought.
​

​

Do you mind, a little more from the NASB, Luke 21:
20: "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near.
21:"then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city;
22:because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled.
23:"Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people;
24:and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
25:"There will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves,
26:men fainting from fear and the expectation of the things which are coming upon the world; for the power of the heavens will be shaken.

When this bible passage was written, it seems the author was pointing to a future occurrence not something in history.

Joe

Of cause as most people are aware , there was a litral fullfillment of Jesus words upon Jerusalem in 70.C.E.


But as you mention there is a fullfillment at a future time , and since 1914 we have been in what the bible calls THE LAST DAYS and the signs of the times are upon us.
yes unfaithful Jerusalem suffered greatly back then and there is an unfaithful Jerusalem now , and i dont mean litral Jurusalem .
it is the unfaithful Jerusalem that claims to represent the God of the bible but is very unfaithful .


but getting back to the trampling


The ‘trampling’ on that kingdom of the dynasty of Davidic rulers did not begin with the Roman devastation of the city of Jerusalem in 70 C.E. It began centuries earlier with the Babylonian overthrow of that dynasty in 607 B.C.E.

 

[mee]

But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth,
And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.PSALM 37;11



IT WILL BE GOOD WHEN PEACE IS ON THE EARTH


The righteous themselves will possess the earth,
And they will reside forever upon it. PSALM 37;29


SO WHO ARE THE RIGHTEOUS ONES IN THE EYES OF THE MOST HIGH?


For evildoers themselves will be cut off,
But those hoping in Jehovah are the ones that will possess the earth.
PSALM 37;9


well it seems that it will not be the evil-doers , it will be those hoping in JEHOVAH
And here they are spoken of in REVELATION 7;9-10

And they keep on crying with a loud voice, saying: “Salvation [we owe] to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb.”

 

[Joedjr]

Hi Mee,
I was wondering, all of the explanations that you post here and elsewhere, do they come directly from the JW play-book? I've made some rounds to different Christian churches but never got to the JW. Do you ever add any of your own life experiences to the mix?

Joe

 

[mee]

Hi Mee,
I was wondering, all of the explanations that you post here and elsewhere, do they come directly from the JW play-book? I've made some rounds to different Christian churches but never got to the JW. Do you ever add any of your own life experiences to the mix?

Joe

LOL not sure what you mean by play book, if you havent got round to going to a kingdom hall of Jehovahs witnesses, there are plenty around , all over the world

 

[Joedjr]

LOL not sure what you mean by play book, if you havent got round to going to a kingdom hall of Jehovahs witnesses, there are plenty around , all over the world

Hi Mee,
In other words, does your biblical thought venture into, or do you allow yourself to move into spaces out side the Jehovah Witness circle of doctrine?
Joe

 

[mee]

Hi Mee,
In other words, does your biblical thought venture into, or do you allow yourself to move into spaces out side the Jehovah Witness circle of doctrine?
Joe

my understanding of the bible is based on good bible based true knowledge , but i have many thoughts about other doctrines ,and can see that those manmade thoughts are not inline with the bible ,so i like to stick to good bible based knowledge as all Jehovahs witnesses do .


and i am glad to say that i dont need to go searching around for good bible based food , because i am full to the brim with lots of good spiritual food .

thats because i am well fed and it comes straight from the channel that Jesus is feeding matthew 24;45-47 and it is verrrrry goooood . and tasty

 

[Joedjr]

my understanding of the bible is based on good bible based true knowledge , but i have many thoughts about other doctrines ,and can see that those manmade thoughts are not inline with the bible ,so i like to stick to good bible based knowledge as all Jehovahs witnesses do .


and i am glad to say that i dont need to go searching around for good bible based food , because i am full to the brim with lots of good spiritual food .

thats because i am well fed and it comes straight from the channel that Jesus is feeding matthew 24;45-47 and it is verrrrry goooood . and tasty

Hi Mee,
I guess that would be a no.
Joe