The Oneness Of God

Discussion in 'Islam' started by eman sr, May 27, 2008.

  1. eman sr

    eman sr Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    May 27, 2008
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Oneness of God:


    The foundation of the Islamic faith is belief in the Oneness of Almighty God - the God of Abraham, Noah, Moses and Jesus. Islam teaches that a pure belief in One God is intuitive in human beings and thus fulfills the natural inclination of the soul. As such, Islam's concept of God is straightforward, unambiguous and easy to understand. Islam teaches that the hearts, minds and souls of human beings are fitting receptacles for clear divine revelation, and that God's revelations to man are not clouded by self-contradictory mysteries or irrational ideas. As such, Islam teaches that even though God cannot be fully comprehended and grasped by our finite human minds, He also does not expect us to accept absurd or demonstrably false beliefs about Him. According to the teachings of Islam, Almighty God is absolutely One and His Oneness should never be compromised by associating partners with Him - neither in worship nor in belief. Due to this, Muslims are required to maintain a direct relationship with God, and therefore all intermediaries are absolutely forbidden. From the Islamic standpoint, believing in the Oneness of God means to realize that all prayer and worship should be exclusively for God, and that He alone deserves such titles as "Lord" and "Savior". Some religions, even though they believe on "One God", do not make all of their worship and prayers for Him alone. Also, they also give the title of "Lord" to beings that are not All-Knowing, All-Powerful and Un-Changing - even according to their own ******ures. Suffice it to say that according to Islam, it is not enough that people believe that "God is One", but they must actualize this belief by proper conduct. In short, in the Islamic concept of God, which is completely based on Divine Revelation, there is no ambiguity in divinity - God is God and man is man. Since God is the only Creator and continual Sustainer of the Universe, He is transcendent above His creation - the Creator and the creature never mix. Islam teaches that God has a unique nature and that He is free from gender, human weaknesses and beyond anything which human beings can imagine. The Qur'an teaches that the signs and proofs of God's wisdom, power and existence are evident in the world around us. As such, God calls on man to ponder over the creation in order to build a better understanding of his Creator. Muslims believe that God is Loving, Compassionate and Merciful, and that He is concerned with the daily affairs of human beings. In this, Islam strikes a unique balance between false religious and philosophical extremes. Some religions and philosophies portray God as just an impersonal "Higher Power" who is uninterested, or unaware, of the life of each individual human. Other religions tend to give God human qualities and teach that He is present in His creation, by being incarnate in someone, something - or even everything. In Islam, however, Almighty God has clarified the truth by letting mankind know that He is "Compassionate", "Merciful", "Loving" and the "Answerer of Prayers". But He as also emphasized strongly that "there is nothing like unto Him", and that He is high above time, space and His creation. Finally, it should be mentioned that the God that Muslims worship is the same God that Jews and Christians worship - because there is only one God. It is unfortunate that some people mistakenly believe that Muslims worship a different God than Jews and Christians, and that "Allah" is just the "god of the Arabs". This myth, which has been propagated by the enemies of Islam, is completely false since the word "Allah" is simply the Arabic name for Almighty God. It is the same word for God which is used by Arabic-speaking Jews and Christians. However, it should be clarified that even though Muslims worship the same God as Jews and Christian, their concept of Him differs somewhat from the beliefs of other religions - mainly because it is based completely on Divine Revelation from God. For example, Muslims reject the Christian belief that God is a Trinity, not only becaue the Qur'an rejects it, but also because if this was God's true nature, He would have clearly revealed it to Abraham, Noah, Jesus and all of the other prophets.
     
  2. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    22,720
    Likes Received:
    2,458
    Namaste eman sr and welcome. Now I know there was more in between, the dot dot dot represents the middle section I removed but that was the beginning and end of your post, I mean cut and paste.

    Now if someone were to ask you this question, what does Islam feel about the oneness of G!d and you were to provide a cut and paste rather than get something wrong, we understand. But generally this is a discussion site, not a I'll paste my stuff here site.

    Now not to say that we don't have issues with other folks who cut and paste willy-nilly, some folks just can't learn, those with ears may hear I suppose. But I think you are of a higher ilk than that and are capable of thought and discussion on a more personal level... and that eman sr is what we'd appreciate, ebb and flow, discussion and counterpoint, thought and contemplation, the words that flow out of your fingers and not simply cntrl c, cntrl v.

    Oh and once again, welcome and asalam alekum
     
  3. Dawud

    Dawud Byfluga

    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Messages:
    278
    Likes Received:
    2
    I don't know if I'll get back in the discussion, I just want to say I totally agree with the oneness of God, and that God is the Loving, the Compassionate, the Merciful, the All-Knowing, the All-Powerful, the All-Wise.
     
  4. PluckyAli

    PluckyAli Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2005
    Messages:
    110
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well i agree with will,copy and paste will not work here.It's against the purpose of discussion forums,if you want to deliever some message please re-write it in your own words.The only condition in which copy/paste looks rational is when your trying to support your arguments with some reference.Hope to see a better response from you in the future.
    ali
     
  5. Dondi

    Dondi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2005
    Messages:
    2,615
    Likes Received:
    3
    Is this a challenge for those of other faiths to respond? Would you be willing to engage in a sensible and reasonable dialog about some of the premises the above article has concerning the Jewish and Christian faiths? Already I see some misconceptions that I'd like to clear up if I have a listening ear.
     
  6. 17th Angel

    17th Angel לבעוט את התחת ולקחת שמות

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    9,437
    Likes Received:
    3
    I don't think we should read into it too much,

    It obviously is not a challange because look where he has posted this. He has posted it in the Islam forum, he hasn't gone to the Judaism forum, or the Pagan forum or whatever... I feel as if perhaps his English is not too strong, and he wished to bring some information to the table.

    And to do this wich accuracy he has copied and pasted what his view was, and hey.. It's not like every post he has posted are c and p's
     
  7. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2005
    Messages:
    6,363
    Likes Received:
    0


    true christianity rejects the trinity , because the bible does not teach it . ​

    and also as you mentioned it was never revealed to Abraham, Noah, Jesus .​


    and as christians have to listen to Jesus luke 9;35
    Jesus never taught the trinity either
     
  8. PluckyAli

    PluckyAli Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2005
    Messages:
    110
    Likes Received:
    0
    Not really,I think if he has read the forum rules and wanted to challenge other people,he should have posted it in comparative studies forum.So i don't think it's a challenge at all.

    Sure,we are listening and would be glad if you educate us about the misconception that article is propagating about Jewish or Christian.
    p.ali
     
  9. Dondi

    Dondi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2005
    Messages:
    2,615
    Likes Received:
    3
    Well, it would actually be inappropiate for me to comment on the Jewish misconceptions. I'll leave that to members here of the Jewish faith.

    As far as Christianity, first off, we believe in One God, but that He is appears in three manifestations: Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Now at the surface, that seems contradictory, but I'll try to explain. The Father would be probably be the equivilent of how Islam view God. Eternal, Creator above creation, Loving, Compassionate, and Merciful, concerned with the affairs of men.

    God is also Spirit. Really when you think of the Spirit of God, it is synonymous with the Father. Only the Spirit is that part of God that is a conduit between the Eternal and the Universe. It is God interacting within the time-space continuum. So while God is outside space and time, He is able to make His Presence known in the material world. Think about the moment of creation when He made the universe from nothing. And how He is able to communicate to Adam, Moses, and all the prophets, i.e. burning bush, etc.. God is everywhere. He can manifest Himself within His creation, though He is not inherently part of it. And it is through His Spirit that enables God to be closer to us than our jugular vein, according to one of your suras.

    Where we will probably depart is the idea that God can manefest Himself as human, as in the case of the Christian belief in Jesus Christ. But again, this is the Spirit in action again. The Holy Spirit overshadowed the Virgin Mary and the thing inside the womb is holy. The book of Matthew calls His name Immanuel, which is: God is with us. You might think that it is impossible for an Almighty God who created the universe and is above all is able to dwell in a man. By way of analogy, consider a ventriloquist, who controls a manniquin and speaks by throwing his voice. The manniquin is just a tool, a substance by which the ventriloquist can project himself into it. Really, the ventriloquist and the manniquin are one and the same. Or how about a video game? In a video game you have a controller that dictates the action of the character you are playing onscreen. The character is not 'you' in any real sense, for it is just pixels on the screen, but you are able to interact with other characters in the video game by what you do with the controller, in in a sense it IS you. The controller sends electrical signals to the video game box and then in turn controls the character on the TV screen. So bringing this illustration all together, the Father is like the video game player, the Holy Spirit is like the electric signals that are generated by the controller by the players hands like a conduit between reality and the virtual world, and the Son is like the video character that interacts on the screen. So you can see how three manifestations are one.

    Jesus, therefore, is God's video game character, in keeping with the analogy. Well, you may ask, what of all that power God welds. How could that all be put into one man. Well, the power is potential. It can be manifested, and Jesus did manifest miracles, but it wasn't always present. Think of bodybuilders and how their strong arms are able to power lift hundreds of pounds. But when they pick up a soda can , they are not going to use all their power, else they will crush the can and soda will spray all over the place. Likewise, when they lift up a baby in their arms, they are careful to be gentile, lest the full force of their strength hurl the baby in the air. In Jesus, God limited His power through Him.

    So in worshipping God through Christ, we are merely in touch with the extension of God who is in the Eternal. To us it is still One God.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2008
  10. PluckyAli

    PluckyAli Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2005
    Messages:
    110
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's what I intensely disagree.I have no good idea from where and how some muslims have got the same conclusion,it's not in the Quran and most probably it should not be in Bible.The idea that God is everywhere is in plain logical error.Let's assume if we can get as tiny as an atom,tiny enough to fit inside an atom,and suppose atom seems large enough for us to be considered as our universe,we would logically conclude that God is everywhere in atom.Now lets go back and get big again,we see that materialistic things are made up of atom,since if God is in atom,so indirectly everything is made up of God too.and that's simply violates the known fact that God is not part of the creation physically.Hope i have made it clear.
    That's different interpretation.We on the other hand really believe God is closer to our jugular vein;not physically,but logically.It's just like that if you place a wireless microphone and camera on people head that points back at them,you can be closer to their head but not physically being there.It's just difference of interpretations.

    Guess ,we have already departed on two issues mentioned above.

    Without ventriloquist,the manniquin is a stationary object or a statue.Not really,it doesnot imply a mathematical equivalence which means same in everything.To be considered same and one,each and everything should be equal and same.Without exactly same it's just hypothesis ,assumptions.A manniquin is only bound to the ventriloquist when he want to,otherwise when it's unbounded manniquin is just like another toy.

    That's a highly abstract conclusion i guess.Many would disagree with it.

    Agreed in a loosely terms
    Nah,These are just once again how the God choose to interact with the people or in your words play games with the humans.That's how the game works but these are 3 difference distingisable things.If your character get killed in the game,does that hurt you physically?.No.When someone pulls off the Console box,does that make any difference to the character,you or the electrical signals?.When there is no power there are no electrical signals,does that mean there is no you?.When character dies in game,does electrical signals and you die too?.So NO THEY MIGHT BE CONNECTED AND SIMILAR BUT THEY ARE SIGNIFICANLY DIFFERENT.For e.g Let's assume I design and develop a robot which is controlled with the RF wireless signals.Some people come to evaluate my robot ,one person says "This robot is you and these signal too".You can be dead sure he is joking.Since it's logically incomprehensible when your capable of creating 100's of such robots but each one with different purpose and even though you can control them,they are not exactly you.


    There are varitions in 3 of them,variations mean there is a differnce if we assign ranks to them arbitrarty,then one is higher than the other and some component lower than the other.By way of analogy,does that mean there is a high God,the low God and the intermediate God?.Even though we say YES but that's violates the fundamental principal that God is one.



    In that analogy,we are all God's video game characters,If God wishes to control us with his controller is there anyone to stop him or us from doing from what God wants?.

    Perhaps the same anoloyg could be applied to everyone,if God wishes he could give make us healthy and rich(power) and if he wishes he could make us weak and poort.

    You mean the elctrical signals via your extension that's fine.Since this is not a forum to post harsh comments,i would just say it's just the different of interpretations between you and me.What is important is who's interpretations have been derived through a more rigouris and logical approach.Let's leave it to the people to decide.anyway Thanks for indepth explnation of your understanding of God,Even though i disagree with it but at the same time i appreciate it for being honest.
    p.ali
     
  11. farhan

    farhan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2005
    Messages:
    713
    Likes Received:
    30
    As long as it in the domains of philosophy, for white haired, bearded people, its great. If you are saying this is what God says, or God is, you need to be sure its coming from God, not from some white haired, bearded man, who has no contacts with God at all. If this was how it was supposed to be, then people who had contact with God, like Abraham, Issac, Moses or David should havebeen very explicit about this. It shouldnt have come suddenly within three hundred years after christ. A bunch of people getting together to establish the nature of a man after his departure, & not so democratically bestowing divinity upon him ........ who is playing gods here ... & who is god .... comeon.

    The problem as always remains the same here .... who told you that ? As Quran says "has God send you a proof ". How exactly did you succeed in comprehending the uncomprehendable ? How exactly do you divide God into two or three or a million ? How divine each portion is ? How exactly does on part die ? Doesnt it decrease his god-ness ? How can one part worship the other part ? How can one part say to the other "why have you forsaken me"? Too many unanswerable questions out there, thatswhy being a mystery is considered to be a part of trinity. If its mystery, how did you come to know its mechanics.

    And the biggest of all questions....how much of its philosophical DNA is semitic. And how much comes from the other side of mediterrenean.

    As humans, we have an existence, called physical body. Humans have behaviours. That physical body expresses behaviours/thoughts in the form of actions, this is how we connect to the physical world around us.

    There is a God, he does works, why divide him into two ? How exactly did you come to the conclusion that that’s the right way? Burning bush , as I see it was just to draw Moses' attention. God might have talked to him telepathically, & he wouldn’t have known the difference.

    In the same way, God says "be", & it becomes. The creator of the universe doesn’t have to overshadow a girl to get her pregnant. He brought Eve from Adam & Adam from nowhere, without any overshadowing. Secondly, the author of Matthew wasn't there when the spirit overshadowed Mary, so who told him that. If that was the case, then Jesus should have been very explicit about it. Rather, he calls himself the son of God, just like the other sons of God in bani-israel. Infact, their father himself was designated son of God. So there is nothing unique there.

    I doubt if anybody is his life called Jesus Immanuel, atleast in the terms the word is understood now. Lateron… people could have said he is the fourth incarnation of Enoch, & followers would have believed.


    And I always ask,"why go through all this trouble"? Mr.A dialing saint.A dialing Jesus dialing God. Why not get cable… direct connection, dedicated line, 24-7-365. No need to spend so much time upon intermediate routers.
     

Share This Page