What Is The Source Of Evil?

[17th Angel]

reminds me of what Adam said

I kinda meant it as a joke. Because it is a pathetic excuse lol... In the bible story, Adam and Eve are responsible for what they did, not satan.

"Satan made me do it!" Is an escape hole.... Mankind looooooves to blame another instead of doing something about it. "He's to blame!" "She's to blame!" "The goverment is to blame!" "Those of 'X' religion are to blame!" Who cares who is to blame, that solves nada... Just fix it.

We get into situations like this at work... My work colleagues do the same, make extra work and waste time just to see who made the mistake instead of solving the customers issues...

 

[mee]

In the bible story, Adam and Eve are responsible for what they did, not satan.

quote] Yes ,but satan was the instigator of it all , he was the one who started off the first lie ever ,he was the one that influenced them .



and the first lie was YOU WILL NOT DIE listening to lies gets us nowhere.

 

[mee]

Satan would especially like to stop Jehovah’s Witnesses from preaching the Kingdom good news.

But he cannot, for Jehovah has promised them: "Any weapon whatever that will be formed against you will have no success." (Isaiah 54:17)

Those who oppose his servants will "be found fighters actually against God." (Acts 5:38, 39)

So, with the powerful backing of Jehovah’s spirit, Christ Jesus, and multitudes of angelic forces, the work of Kingdom proclamation grows in intensity each year.

To keep that divine backing, Jehovah’s servants are careful to obey the counsel at James 4:7, 8: "Subject yourselves, therefore, to God; but oppose the Devil, and he will flee from you. Draw close to God, and he will draw close to you."

 

[17th Angel]

In the bible story, Adam and Eve are responsible for what they did, not satan.

quote] Yes ,but satan was the instigator of it all , he was the one who started off the first lie ever ,he was the one that influenced them .



and the first lie was YOU WILL NOT DIE listening to lies gets us nowhere.

True listening to lies gets us nowhere... But it's still -their- fault, they did it... They were not forced to, they used their gift of free will and choose to. That's their problem... And apparently ours lol.... Which again makes no sense to me... If you're great great grandfather inprisoned my black great great grandfather .... And I held that agaisnt you and punished you for it.... That would be unjust.

Which goes to show that 'godly trait' runs through humanity as we see many grudges held.

Did I choose to be born? No.
Did I personally go and pick some apple? No.
Did I agree with satan? No.
Do I deserve to be in a world controlled by "satan"? lol... No.
Am I apparently "paying" for someone elses sin? Yes.
Is your god just and merciful?

Sorry... I don't buy 'sin'.

"But you're born with it!!!" So I don't even have a chance to be free of judgement? Before I have done a damn thing I am a sinner... lol... Nah, I am not buying that whatsoever... How can a little baby child be deserving of death cause some bloke like 3,000 years ago or whatever messed up? That child has to go down a path to death... NOT, not because they deserve it, or because they owe it... Because that is the next step. Surley your god accepts the consquences of giving us free will, with this adam choose to do what he did, he was allowed to choose to do what he did, he could break the rules he could live in harmony, but whatever he choose it was because he could. in this story god gave him the ability to sin, even though "was not inclined to sin" yet he did.

"Satan made me do it!! eeek!"

lol.....

 

[mee]

True listening to lies gets us nowhere... But it's still -their- fault, they did it... They were not forced to, they used their gift of free will and choose to. That's their problem... And apparently ours lol.... Which again makes no sense to me... If you're great great grandfather inprisoned my black great great grandfather .... And I held that agaisnt you and punished you for it.... That would be unjust.

Which goes to show that 'godly trait' runs through humanity as we see many grudges held.

Did I choose to be born? No.
Did I personally go and pick some apple? No.
Did I agree with satan? No.
Do I deserve to be in a world controlled by "satan"? lol... No.
Am I apparently "paying" for someone elses sin? Yes.
Is your god just and merciful?

Sorry... I don't buy 'sin'.

"But you're born with it!!!" So I don't even have a chance to be free of judgement? Before I have done a damn thing I am a sinner... lol... Nah, I am not buying that whatsoever... How can a little baby child be deserving of death cause some bloke like 3,000 years ago or whatever messed up? That child has to go down a path to death... NOT, not because they deserve it, or because they owe it... Because that is the next step. Surley your god accepts the consquences of giving us free will, with this adam choose to do what he did, he was allowed to choose to do what he did, he could break the rules he could live in harmony, but whatever he choose it was because he could. in this story god gave him the ability to sin, even though "was not inclined to sin" yet he did.

"Satan made me do it!! eeek!"

lol.....

its good that we are not robots

 

[Tao_Equus]

Mee,

Russell was a man, an obviously schizophrenically ill man, yet you and your fellow witnesses spew your version of the bible as amended and dictated by him. Wake up Mee. Your hypocrisy is laughable.

 

[mee]

Mee,

Russell was a man, an obviously schizophrenically ill man, yet you and your fellow witnesses spew your version of the bible as amended and dictated by him. Wake up Mee. Your hypocrisy is laughable.

many people think many things but not according to accurate knowledge .

and many have been misled by falsely called knowledge .


matthew 24;45-47 and yes it is JEHOVAHS WITNESSES and it is verrrrry goooood

Jesus stated: "Who really is the faithful steward, the discreet one, whom his master will appoint over his body of attendants to keep giving them their measure of food supplies at the proper time? I tell you truthfully, He will appoint him over all his belongings."—Luke 12:42, 44.


Here the slave is called a steward, a word translated from a Greek term denoting "the manager of a household or estate." The collective steward would not simply be a group of intellectuals who explain interesting points from the Bible.

In addition to providing nourishing spiritual food "at the proper time," "the faithful steward" would be appointed over the entire body of Christ’s attendants and assigned to manage all of Christ’s interests on earth, "all his belongings."






The steward’s responsibilities also include the supervision of the all-important work of preaching "this good news of the kingdom" and making "disciples of people of all the nations."

This involves teaching people to observe all the things that Christ, the Head of the congregation, commands to be done during this time of the end.

(Matthew 24:14; 28:19, 20; Revelation 12:17)

The preaching and teaching work has produced "a great crowd" of loyal companions of the anointed remnant. These "desirable things of all the nations" are undoubtedly to be counted among the precious "belongings" of Christ administered by the faithful slave.—Revelation 7:9; Haggai 2:7.


A fundamental reason for showing proper respect for the faithful slave class is that by so doing, we are in fact showing respect for the Master, Jesus Christ.



The other sheep recognize that they have greatly benefited from the diligent efforts of the faithful slave in supplying them with timely spiritual food. They humbly acknowledge that were it not for the faithful and discreet slave, they would know little or nothing of precious Bible truths, such as Jehovah’s sovereignty, the sanctification of his name, the Kingdom, the new heavens and new earth, the soul, the condition of the dead, and the true identity of Jehovah, his Son, and the holy spirit.

Out of sheer gratitude and loyalty, the other sheep lovingly support Christ’s anointed "brothers" on the earth during this time of the end.—Matthew 25:40.



its the only way to do things in the right way , then we will not be clasSed as a REBELLIOUS GOAT MATTHEW 25; 40




helping christs brothers is what to do ,not to be in opposition .



humility works wonders , mee likes to do that it leads to EVERLASTING LIFE jOHN 17;3

With no evil in sight

 

[sherry]

In the bible story, Adam and Eve are responsible for what they did, not satan.

quote] Yes ,but satan was the instigator of it all , he was the one who started off the first lie ever ,he was the one that influenced them .



and the first lie was YOU WILL NOT DIE listening to lies gets us nowhere.

I'm sorry, but to me this is just like saying:

-gunmakers are responsible for shootings, they instigated them by making the guns
-cigarette companies are responsible for peoples addictions to nicotine because they made the cigarettes

It also reminds me of the proverbial saying, that no matter how cliche it sounds, YES your mothers DO say it to you at one point or another in your life..

"Would you jump off a bridge just because your friends did it?"

No matter WHAT temptation is laid before you, it is still YOUR choice, and your choice alone whether to not to reach for it or turn away. For every person that chooses to embrace a temptation, there are countless more that choose not to. The fault can not be laid upon the tempter because in the end, they didn't force someone to take what was offered.

 

[mee]

I'm sorry, but to me this is just like saying:

-gunmakers are responsible for shootings, they instigated them by making the guns
-cigarette companies are responsible for peoples addictions to nicotine because they made the cigarettes

It also reminds me of the proverbial saying, that no matter how cliche it sounds, YES your mothers DO say it to you at one point or another in your life..

"Would you jump off a bridge just because your friends did it?"

No matter WHAT temptation is laid before you, it is still YOUR choice, and your choice alone whether to not to reach for it or turn away. For every person that chooses to embrace a temptation, there are countless more that choose not to. The fault can not be laid upon the tempter because in the end, they didn't force someone to take what was offered.

Iagree people dont have to listen to the ones promoting wrong things they can choose not too ,thats what Adam could have done .

As an example

many people promote lies about Jehovahs witnesses but mee knows that it will not be of any benefit to take on board the lies that are promoted .


i would rather listen to the channel that Jesus is feeding good spiritual food too, and yes it is Jehovahs witnesses through the faithful ones

matthew 24;45-47

they are being fed straight from Jesus and it will lead to everlasting life. listening to the right channel leads to everlasting life .

but listening to those in opposition only ends in death .


MEE likes listening to Jesus .
it is most beneficial

 

[17th Angel]

Delete this I misread anothers post and jumped too quickly to my defense lol...

Sherry I agree.

 

[juantoo3]

I'm sorry, but to me this is just like saying:

-gunmakers are responsible for shootings, they instigated them by making the guns
-cigarette companies are responsible for peoples addictions to nicotine because they made the cigarettes

No matter WHAT temptation is laid before you, it is still YOUR choice, and your choice alone whether to not to reach for it or turn away. For every person that chooses to embrace a temptation, there are countless more that choose not to. The fault can not be laid upon the tempter because in the end, they didn't force someone to take what was offered.

Kindest Regards, Sherry, and welcome to CR!

May I play devil's advocate for a moment?

While I personally agree with you about choice, do you realize that a great many people are of the opinion that their choices are predetermined, even genetic?

It is pretty well evident that the human body was created to react to nicotine. The human body was created to react in an addictive manner to nicotine. If it didn't, the whole cigarette fiasco would be a non-issue. Now, what "we" know is that different people react somewhat differently to nicotine, some are more prone to addiction than others, and some are more responsive to the effects than others. Some are able to walk away from nicotine quite easily, others struggle with an addiction more gripping than heroin.

You said "cigarette companies are responsible for peoples addictions to nicotine because they made the cigarettes." In context you were highlighting the point that cigarette companies did not create the choice to smoke, unless I misunderstood. I agree cigarette companies did not hold a gun to anybody's head and force them to smoke...however:

Cigarette companies have (finally) acknowledged that they did deliberately manipulate the nicotine (and other chemical) levels in cigarettes to make them more addictive. Legal junkies. No, they do not force the first butt into a person's mouth, but they do entice with seductive advertising. And once that first butt is in the mouth, many *are* hooked. Some may take a little longer, but as long as it is socially appealing (sexy gals and red convertibles) more people will continue to try.

The problem isn't so much that cigarettes are addictive, the problem is that they can ruin the typical person's health. Yes, there are the *occasional* stories of 90 year old smokers who have smoked since they were 10. How many can be counted? Compare that number with the countless thousands who have died *prematurely* as a direct result of smoking...I would guess the odds are at least ten thousand to one, probably a lot greater. Pretty high odds to stake a life on.

Actually, as a smoker who is trying to quit, and only been without (this time) for a few months, I am not trying to sell some anti-smoking line either. A person is free to make their own choices...that is where you and I agree.

But the argument "cigarette companies are responsible for peoples addictions to nicotine because they made the cigarettes" actually is true, and doesn't truthfully serve to support your final premise. Cigarette companies did not create the addictive tendency in people, but they did everything they could to exploit it. That's just the nature of business...especially pharmaceutical business (legal and otherwise).

My two cents...

 

[17th Angel]

You know mee, in a christian sense... (cause you don't like the idea of a human having idenpendence lol no free wills for yo!) The source of evil is your god Any better?

 

[Postmaster]

Evil is never intended as evil. Indeed, the contradiction inherent in all evil is that it originates in the desire to eliminate evil. "The only good Indian is a dead Indian."
Evil arises in the honored belief that history can be tidied up, brought to a sensible conclusion. It is evil to act as though the past is bringing us to a specifiable end. It is evil to assume that the past will make sense only if we bring it to an issue we have clearly in view. It is evil for a nation to believe it is the "last, best hope on earth." It is evil to think history is to end with a return to Zion, or with classless society, or with the Islamicization of all living infidels.
...do not attempt to eliminate evil in others, for to do so is the very impulse of evil itself, and therefore a contradiction.
James P. Carse,

Chris

Is that statement evil for trying to define evil?

 

[mee]

I kinda meant it as a joke. Because it is a pathetic excuse lol... In the bible story, Adam and Eve are responsible for what they did, not satan.

"quote]
very true but they were influenced by satan .

 

[Postmaster]

Kindest Regards, Sherry, and welcome to CR!

May I play devil's advocate for a moment?

While I personally agree with you about choice, do you realize that a great many people are of the opinion that their choices are predetermined, even genetic?

It is pretty well evident that the human body was created to react to nicotine. The human body was created to react in an addictive manner to nicotine. If it didn't, the whole cigarette fiasco would be a non-issue. Now, what "we" know is that different people react somewhat differently to nicotine, some are more prone to addiction than others, and some are more responsive to the effects than others. Some are able to walk away from nicotine quite easily, others struggle with an addiction more gripping than heroin.

You said "cigarette companies are responsible for peoples addictions to nicotine because they made the cigarettes." In context you were highlighting the point that cigarette companies did not create the choice to smoke, unless I misunderstood. I agree cigarette companies did not hold a gun to anybody's head and force them to smoke...however:

Cigarette companies have (finally) acknowledged that they did deliberately manipulate the nicotine (and other chemical) levels in cigarettes to make them more addictive. Legal junkies. No, they do not force the first butt into a person's mouth, but they do entice with seductive advertising. And once that first butt is in the mouth, many *are* hooked. Some may take a little longer, but as long as it is socially appealing (sexy gals and red convertibles) more people will continue to try.

The problem isn't so much that cigarettes are addictive, the problem is that they can ruin the typical person's health. Yes, there are the *occasional* stories of 90 year old smokers who have smoked since they were 10. How many can be counted? Compare that number with the countless thousands who have died *prematurely* as a direct result of smoking...I would guess the odds are at least ten thousand to one, probably a lot greater. Pretty high odds to stake a life on.

Actually, as a smoker who is trying to quit, and only been without (this time) for a few months, I am not trying to sell some anti-smoking line either. A person is free to make their own choices...that is where you and I agree.

But the argument "cigarette companies are responsible for peoples addictions to nicotine because they made the cigarettes" actually is true, and doesn't truthfully serve to support your final premise. Cigarette companies did not create the addictive tendency in people, but they did everything they could to exploit it. That's just the nature of business...especially pharmaceutical business (legal and otherwise).

My two cents...

Nicely nicely said juantoo3 and let's not even start on passive smoking and how that effects children, people in general.

 

[mee]

The source of evil is your god

When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone. JAMES 1 ;13

 

[17th Angel]

Well... You weren't looking for opinions so I am going through it step by step....

I say man is source of evil(and good) you say no... So I must be wrong lol..... Then if it is not man, and we are obviously wanting this to go in a christian frame of mind (even though it isn't in that forum) Then it's god right? He created -everything-..... every,thing....

 

[Dream]

Alex said to Mee "The source of evil is your God"

Mee in response quoted New World Translation "When under trial, let no one say: 'I am being tried by God.' For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone."

As in Mathematics there are things we cannot directly perceive, but we can see their 'Asymptotes', which are the mysteries. Actually, the mystery is what is beyond the asymptotes, but we cannot perceive it directly. What James (the person quoted from) did was to stop people from thinking that the asymptotes were the explanation, which they can never be. The analogies about God are simply the outlines of our limited perception.

Mee's quote from James at first may seem in contest with what Alex said, however it underlines a basic misunderstanding that James was clearing up! James was breaking down the mysteries (the asymptotes of knowledge) and explaining as plainly as possible, only because it became necessary. Don't get me wrong, God cannot be discussed at all without analogies. James was revealing the practical source of the analogies of the permanence of God, but only because people were thinking they had understood God, which was impractical and unhealthy! People were getting hung up on the analogy of God's omniscience, saying "God must be tempting me!!!" In reality, no one was able to understand or explain God; so James was permitted to explain the reasons why certain analogies were made about God!

James was pointing out that omniscience was merely an analogy, saying 'They're just asymptotes, people!' Similarly, Alex is not trying to be cross but is simply emphasizing that the evil and the good, since they are part of creation, both simply are. This clearly does not fit into a strict, literal understanding of James analogous statements about God & light. Clearly God is as pure light, yet evil exists in creation. How could we exist if God is not good? God is omniscient, yet we are responsible for our actions? This cannot be explained! Sometimes you break with the mystery for the sake of practicality, so you don't get hung up on absolutist statements. The asymptote does not define the curve.

II Kings 18:4 ...And he broke in pieces the bronze serpent that Moses had made, for until those days the people of Israel had burned incense to it; it was called Nehushtan. (Nehushtan means thing of brass)