juantoo3
....whys guy.... ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb
Good question. The text is not altogether clear on the matter.
Strange Scripture: Matthew 27:51-53
- Thread starter Manji2012
- Start date
juantoo3
....whys guy.... ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb
I find myself going back to my musing about the parting of the veil. If these were "ordinary" ghosts, wouldn't they always be haunting the city? It seems like the principles involved (the *live* people) believed in spirits, but now here was a mass sighting so to speak of dead persons they in some manner recognized (the saints). It is as if the veil between this world and that were parted for a short time to allow a glimpse to the other side.
M
mee
Guest
Those ones that you mention did not get a resurrection of immortality like Jesus did , Jesus was the first one to get immortality the others died . he was the first-born
M
mee
Guest
BIBLE
juantoo3
....whys guy.... ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb
You're telling me you wrote post 16 freehand?
If I can find it verbatim elsewhere, you will not mind if I delete it then, right?
If I can find it verbatim elsewhere, you will not mind if I delete it then, right?
M
mee
Guest
Jesus was resurrected by his father Jehovah ,
His resurrection was performed by Jehovah God himself.—Ac 3:15; 5:30;
Ro 4:24; 10:9.
Jesus Christ is called "the firstborn from the dead." (Col 1:18) He was the first ever to be resurrected to everlasting life.
And his resurrection was "in the spirit," to life in heaven. (1Pe 3:18)
Moreover, he was raised to a higher form of life and a higher position than that which he had held in the heavens prior to coming to earth.
He was granted immortality and incorruption, which no creature in the flesh can have, and was made "higher than the heavens," second only to Jehovah God in the universe. (Heb 7:26; 1Ti 6:14-16; Php 2:9-11; Ac 2:34; 1Co 15:27)
and Jesus resurrected lazurus because Jehovah gave him the power to resurrect.
<Edit for plagiarizing>
M
mee
Guest
did you not see the bible verses
juantoo3
....whys guy.... ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb
did you not see the bible verses
Sure, it's not so much the Bible verses that concern me. The remainder of the commentary on the other hand, does. Passing such off as your own if it is not (and previous experience casts some serious doubt in that direction), is dishonest and unChristian. It is stealing.
M
mee
Guest
"I have hope toward God . . . that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous."—ACTS 24:15.
but just because an earthquake happens and people who are dead have been raised up from the ground that does not mean it is the resurrection they are dead people raised out of the grave.
thats the way it was in matthew 27 when the earthquake happened .
but people do like to play around with the bible and read into it all sorts of things.
Thanks to Jesus’ ransom sacrifice, faithful anointed ones, being declared righteous, have the sure hope of being resurrected as immortal spirit creatures, like Jesus. (Revelation 2:10)
Their resurrection is mentioned at Revelation 20:6, which says: "Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years."
This is the heavenly resurrection. Notice, though, that the Bible calls it "the first resurrection," which implies that there is more to come.
The resurrection hope gives strength and comfort to all Christians today.
"In Christ all will be brought to life; but each in his own proper place."—1 Cor. 15:22, 23, The New English Bible.
When will the earthly resurrection take place?
Martha said of her dead brother, Lazarus: "I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day." (John 11:24)
How did she know that?
resurrection was a subject of controversy in her day, since the Pharisees believed in it but the Sadducees did not. (Acts 23:8)
Still, Martha must have known of pre-Christian witnesses who hoped in the resurrection. (Hebrews 11:35)
she could have discerned from Daniel 12:13 that the resurrection will occur on the last day. She might even have learned this from Jesus himself. (John 6:39)
That "last day" coincides with the Thousand Year Reign of Christ. (Revelation 20:6) Imagine the excitement during that "day" when this grand event begins!—Compare Luke 24:41.
but just because an earthquake happens and people who are dead have been raised up from the ground that does not mean it is the resurrection they are dead people raised out of the grave.
thats the way it was in matthew 27 when the earthquake happened .
but people do like to play around with the bible and read into it all sorts of things.
Thanks to Jesus’ ransom sacrifice, faithful anointed ones, being declared righteous, have the sure hope of being resurrected as immortal spirit creatures, like Jesus. (Revelation 2:10)
Their resurrection is mentioned at Revelation 20:6, which says: "Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years."
This is the heavenly resurrection. Notice, though, that the Bible calls it "the first resurrection," which implies that there is more to come.
The resurrection hope gives strength and comfort to all Christians today.
"In Christ all will be brought to life; but each in his own proper place."—1 Cor. 15:22, 23, The New English Bible.
When will the earthly resurrection take place?
Martha said of her dead brother, Lazarus: "I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day." (John 11:24)
How did she know that?
resurrection was a subject of controversy in her day, since the Pharisees believed in it but the Sadducees did not. (Acts 23:8)
Still, Martha must have known of pre-Christian witnesses who hoped in the resurrection. (Hebrews 11:35)
she could have discerned from Daniel 12:13 that the resurrection will occur on the last day. She might even have learned this from Jesus himself. (John 6:39)
That "last day" coincides with the Thousand Year Reign of Christ. (Revelation 20:6) Imagine the excitement during that "day" when this grand event begins!—Compare Luke 24:41.
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
I found this in the CR apocrypha section:
Gospel of Nicodemus 12:13-25
13 Then Joseph rising up, said to Annas and Caiaphas, Ye
may be justly under a great surprise, that you have been told,
that Jesus is alive, and gone up to heaven.
14 It is indeed a thing really surprising, that he should not
only himself arise from the dead, but also raise others from their graves,
who have been seen by many in Jerusalem.
15 And now hear me a little:
We all knew the blessed Simeon, the high - priest, who took Jesus
when an infant into his arms in the temple.
16 This same Simeon had two sons of his own, and we were all present at
their death and funeral.
17 Go therefore and see their tombs, for these are open, and they are risen:
and behold, they are in the city of Arimathaea, spending their time together in
offices of devotion.
18 Some, indeed, have heard the sound of their voices in prayer, but they will not discourse
with any one, but they continue as mute as dead men.
19 But come, let us go to them, and behave ourselves towards
them with all due respect and caution. And if we can bring
them to swear, perhaps they will tell us some of the mysteries of their resurrection.
20 When the Jews heard this, they were exceedingly rejoiced.
21 Then Annas and Caiaphas, Nicodemus, Joseph, and Gamaliel, went to Arimathaea,
but did not find them in their graves; but walking about the city, they found them on their
bended knees at their devotions:
22 Then saluting them with all respect and deference to God, they brought them to the
synagogue at Jerusalem: and having shut the gates, they took the book of the law of the Lord,
23 And putting it in their hands, swore them by God Adonai, and the God of Israel,
who spake to our fathers by the law and the prophets, saying,
If ye believe him who raised you from the dead, to be Jesus, tell
us what ye have seen, and how ye were raised from the dead.
24 Charinus and Lenthius, the two sons of Simeon, trembled when they heard these things,
and were disturbed, and groaned; and at the same time looking up to heaven,
they made the sign of the cross with their fingers on their tongues,
25 And immediately they spake, and said, Give each of us some paper, and we will write
down for you all those things which we have seen.
And they each sat down and wrote, saying,
(Continues on to chapter 13...)
13 Then Joseph rising up, said to Annas and Caiaphas, Ye
may be justly under a great surprise, that you have been told,
that Jesus is alive, and gone up to heaven.
14 It is indeed a thing really surprising, that he should not
only himself arise from the dead, but also raise others from their graves,
who have been seen by many in Jerusalem.
15 And now hear me a little:
We all knew the blessed Simeon, the high - priest, who took Jesus
when an infant into his arms in the temple.
16 This same Simeon had two sons of his own, and we were all present at
their death and funeral.
17 Go therefore and see their tombs, for these are open, and they are risen:
and behold, they are in the city of Arimathaea, spending their time together in
offices of devotion.
18 Some, indeed, have heard the sound of their voices in prayer, but they will not discourse
with any one, but they continue as mute as dead men.
19 But come, let us go to them, and behave ourselves towards
them with all due respect and caution. And if we can bring
them to swear, perhaps they will tell us some of the mysteries of their resurrection.
20 When the Jews heard this, they were exceedingly rejoiced.
21 Then Annas and Caiaphas, Nicodemus, Joseph, and Gamaliel, went to Arimathaea,
but did not find them in their graves; but walking about the city, they found them on their
bended knees at their devotions:
22 Then saluting them with all respect and deference to God, they brought them to the
synagogue at Jerusalem: and having shut the gates, they took the book of the law of the Lord,
23 And putting it in their hands, swore them by God Adonai, and the God of Israel,
who spake to our fathers by the law and the prophets, saying,
If ye believe him who raised you from the dead, to be Jesus, tell
us what ye have seen, and how ye were raised from the dead.
24 Charinus and Lenthius, the two sons of Simeon, trembled when they heard these things,
and were disturbed, and groaned; and at the same time looking up to heaven,
they made the sign of the cross with their fingers on their tongues,
25 And immediately they spake, and said, Give each of us some paper, and we will write
down for you all those things which we have seen.
And they each sat down and wrote, saying,
(Continues on to chapter 13...)
juantoo3
....whys guy.... ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb
Whoaaaaa. Gnarly dudette. Never saw that one coming.
So are they saying these guys were in the flesh? One argument that could be made is that this isn't canonical, but how credible is this as a source?
So are they saying these guys were in the flesh? One argument that could be made is that this isn't canonical, but how credible is this as a source?
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
I can't say that I'm really familiar with the apocrypha. (Some of them are pretty freaky!) That said, during my glancing them over, I noticed that several mentioned the veil in the temple being torn, and some mentioned the people seeing the eclipse and the earthquake started beating their chests and sighing about how these were signs that perhaps Jesus was really righteous, and who then went into the city and started talking about the signs. However, the Gospel of Nicodemus was the only one (that I found) that mentioned actual dead people walking about.
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
The more I look at this, the more I think 1 Corinthians 1 applies here:
Christ the Power and Wisdom of God
18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:
“ I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”
20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22 For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
We can examine the miraculous signs, we can speculate on the meanings, but we humans are still pretty insane when we crucify one such as Jesus. (Are the signs of the veil being torn, the earthquake, the stories of the dead coming to life and their testimonies of what they experienced during death testaments to our insanity? Are these just distractions that draw our focus away from the insane things we humans do--such as crucifying someone like Jesus?)18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:
“ I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”
20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22 For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
juantoo3
....whys guy.... ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb
Sometimes you just blow me away....
M
mee
Guest
yes the message in the bible is foolishness to the world they would rather rely on their own wisdom .
to worldly-wise ones preaching about GODS KINGDOM seems to be sheer follishness lacking practicality
(Matthew 24:14; 28:19, 20)
as Jehovahs witnesses know only to well.
pointing people to the only solution to peace on the earth is meet with stiff opposition Daniel 2;44 and there are many distractions in this world to turn people away from the GOODNEWS of the kingdom. peoples eyes have certainly been blinded in more ways than one If, now, the good news we declare is in fact veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, 4 among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through. 5 For we are preaching, not ourselves, but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as YOUR slaves for Jesus’ sake. 6 For God is he who said: "Let the light shine out of darkness," and he has shone on our hearts to illuminate [them] with the glorious knowledge of God by the face of Christ.
2 corinthians 4;3-6
B
Bishadi
Guest
NO!
So is Moses and Abraham walking around or were they not good enough to ‘wake up’……?
But let’s look this over in Mark 15:
Nope no saints walking around and funny; the quote of JC himself was different; did they go to a different play?
And then in Luke 23
Wow!
No raised saints as well, another ‘quote’ from JC completely different than the previous.
Can anyone shares why these three stories are all different? Were they there or were they not? How could everyone of these be different if this guy was supposed to be God? You would think they would listen a weeeeee bit better to someone who is dying for their sins but didn’t stay dead.
SO what happens now?
M
mee
Guest
have you not heard ,
Jesus is a reigning king in Gods heavenly kingdom goverment in the heavens Daniel 7;13-14 Daniel 2;44 and when he went back to heaven he had to wait until the appointed times of the nations before he was given kingship ,but he was given kingship in 1914 at the appointed times of the nations He has been present in his God-given Kingdom since the end of
"the times of the Gentiles" which was in the year 1914,
(Luke 21:24, Authorized Version)
Jesus died faithful to God , So God raised him from the dead and received him up into heaven and seated him at his own right hand in the throne of Jehovah, but he had to wait until 1914 to recieve his kingship
JESUS "King of kings and Lord of lords," Jesus Christ, is present. (Revelation 19:11, 16) its all happening in this time of the end
Dream
Well-Known Member
Bish, good questions thanks for looking up the parallel accounts. The account in Mark explains that not everyone could hear clearly what Jesus was saying upon the cross, which a good reason some accounts include additional details. It is actually indirect evidence that the accounts are genuine, because they are supposed to be accounts by separate witnesses. Fortunately, the three parallel accounts are similar, covering the same general things, except for the bit in Matthew which is what we were discussing to begin with. If this event of saints rising had been described in all three accounts then we wouldn't need to discuss it, but we are discussing it so take heart.
It is not necessary that Moses and Abraham be raised in this instance, because we are not talking about the post-judgment resurrection. It is similar to when a man was resurrected by Elijah's dead bones.(II Kings 13:21) Neither Moses nor Abraham were raised for that occasion either, so it does not reflect on them negatively at all. Actually, their resurrection cannot take place without us.(Hebrews 11:39)
I agree with you about the God thing. As for Jesus dying for sins, there is a common misunderstanding about what that means. The only sins that Jesus could 'die for' are the sins that are addressed in the Pentateuch through other sacrifices (and usually relate to purification of uncleanness) These are of that schoolmaster to bring people unto Christ (Gal 3:24), and it is by these we know that there can be no sacrifice for adultery, murder, etc. These are only atoned for through repentence, prayer, and other legitimate means not substitution of any kind. This is referred to in Hebrews 10:5, and Hebrews 10:26.
The opening of Luke says
It is not necessary that Moses and Abraham be raised in this instance, because we are not talking about the post-judgment resurrection. It is similar to when a man was resurrected by Elijah's dead bones.(II Kings 13:21) Neither Moses nor Abraham were raised for that occasion either, so it does not reflect on them negatively at all. Actually, their resurrection cannot take place without us.(Hebrews 11:39)
I agree with you about the God thing. As for Jesus dying for sins, there is a common misunderstanding about what that means. The only sins that Jesus could 'die for' are the sins that are addressed in the Pentateuch through other sacrifices (and usually relate to purification of uncleanness) These are of that schoolmaster to bring people unto Christ (Gal 3:24), and it is by these we know that there can be no sacrifice for adultery, murder, etc. These are only atoned for through repentence, prayer, and other legitimate means not substitution of any kind. This is referred to in Hebrews 10:5, and Hebrews 10:26.
The opening of Luke says
Luke 1 said:
B
Bishadi
Guest
No problem; kind of a hobby; learning.
Nice kind intent you share but please, more compassion for the integrity of your religious representations.
Sins appear as a metaphor of terminology since as of yet, not a one has ever been forgiven (undone) in all existence.
maybe an action imposed baring responsibility is best observed as then fewer will ever be imposed if that comprehension to each is a literal part of life.
As JC and all men equally are capable of both sides of the spectrum, as he acknowledges himself; that no atrocity should be imposed, even as we are capable.
To forgive a brother is pure. Such that if another steals from you; to forgive in pure form, then would you lock you door?
What this means is if you impose to another and that action causes and adversity to them, and now they are conditioned by that and then impose further negativity based on it, then you live in it. To ask for forgiveness directly from that person, is where humilty may possibly keep you from living in that 'hell'.
That was a single example, imagine the wheels of adversity all over the globe.
Just imagine how bad lies and misrepresentation of faith have done to people, children, and the progress in the various cultures?
as people often look up to the sky, begging for forgiveness, be not in fear of some imaginable thing, be in care of your very existence and life.
Strange?
Dream
Well-Known Member
Totally Beatnick, Bish!