A couple of questions about Islamic beliefs about Jesus

[cmptechie]

Hey all, I'm a newbie here and this is my first post. I've been researching a lot of world religions, concentrating on Islam, due to a large number of Muslims living in my area. I've searched several web sites and asked several members of the Islamic community, but not been able to find the answer to two simple questions.
First, to my understanding, Muslims believe that Jesus did not actually die on the cross. I've two versions of what happened. One of them is that Jesus stood trial and before the sentence was carried out, Allah miraculously removed him from danger and replaced him with someone else. The other is that though Jesus did go to the cross, he did not die, but, again, was saved by Allah.
My first question is this, every bit of research I've done has shown that Jesus did indeed stand trial, but for what? Why was he sentenced? With what was he charged?
My second is why did Allah wait nearly 600 years before revealing the truth? Merely personal opinion, but that seems to be a deception to His creation? I don't mean to offend anyone, for that matter, I'd like to be proven wrong.

 

[Mus Zibii]

I'm not a Muslim, but I'm a student of Islam. The over-all approach to history in the Quran and the Islamic tradition is kind of... well, you can interpret it as simplistic or implied or unimportant (a long list of biblical names is absent from the quran though the stories are illuminated). Therefore, its not important for what reason Jesus stood trial, but that he was, in the end just, and therefore favored as a prophet by Allah from the grasp of the evildoers and faithless. Martyrdom via pacifism wasn't big in ancient Arabia, naturally.

As for the second question, I have no idea. I'm sure there's a source of apologetics that reason something for it.

 

[SchiZo]

The Quran tells us that God favors His beloved servants/Prophets, so naturally in a verse it states "Allah and His messengers always prevail".

Because of the nature of the divine mission carried out by His prophets, such as treachery, asassination plots etc.. against the messengers, God provides due protection so that He and His messengers are never brought to such a humiliating death.

from what I have read, the jews believed that one who dies from crucifixion is accursed, so they may have attempted to kill him, to test if Jesus had actually been a true Prophet of God.

In the Quran it states that "They neither killed him, nor crucified him; but it was made to appear so to them". also that, "Those who differ therein, are full of doubts, and possess no real knowledge (except conjecture)."

So according to Islam, Jesus did not die. Neither was he put to the cross. It does not say that he was replaced with another person, though that may have been possible. It could be that it was only a non-physical vision, or the appearance of an angel.

Quran does not say anything about a trial, so everything else is just extrapolations from the verses.

I don't see how God revealing the Quran 6 centuries later equates to "deception to His creation". The Bible did not come about for a many years after Jesus' disappearance. not all the followers of Jesus in his time believed in the atonement theory. the Trinity doctrine did not come about for a long time either, and even when it did, there existed christians who did not believe in it.

even today, there are christians who doubt the authenticity of the Bible as an infallible work of God, the atonement theory, and the Trinity doctrine... and neither do they hold to Jesus as son of God or God Himself.

 

[Mus Zibii]

Saying that he wasn't crucified doesn't necessaryily mean he wasn't put on a cross, and I think its that ambiguity that's caused the conflict among the different schools of thought. However, to me, it seems implied that the author meant to say 'he was not put on the cross'. Probably written as a means to do away with Christian veneration of the crucifix. Unfortunately, the author was only vaguely familiar with Christian dogma and didn't grasp the significance of atonement (much like Christians didn't grasp the role of Moses and Elijah while writing of the 'transfiguration').

 

[SchiZo]

Saying that he wasn't crucified doesn't necessaryily mean he wasn't put on a cross,

What word would you use to describe, say a man that was nailed to a tree or cross? lol

 

[Mus Zibii]

LOL I'm mostly playing devil's advocate, but to say 'crucified' might imply that the execution was carried out, rather than simply ever comimg near to being crucified. I should take the time someday to go back in literature to see when that was first disputed. I wouldn't be surprised if it was an attempt to reconcile Christianity with Islam. The Gospel of Barnabas has a whole convoluted manner of dealing with the apparent contradiction and that's dated from what... 14th century?

 

[iBrian]

I was actually under the impression that the Islamic position was that there was no crucifixion event - that this was a later invention within Christianity (cf, the additional ending to Mark, 16+).

Does the Quran therefore say that some form of crucifixion was played out, but that not everything was as it seemed?

Simply interested.

 

[SchiZo]

LOL I'm mostly playing devil's advocate, but to say 'crucified' might imply that the execution was carried out, rather than simply ever comimg near to being crucified.

Well, I don't know much about the Gospel of Barnabas, but the Quran is quite clear on the issue and the usage of the word "crucified".

The verse states; "they killed him not, nor crucified him".

It is very possible that a person can be crucified but still survive. It has happened in the past, and it has occured many times in the present day also... for example there are certain groups/organizations where they use real full size nails and hammer themselves to a cross, imitating the Bible's version of Jesus' alleged death. Only for a few hours though, and they go back to their merry ways in life after the event which takes place (usually) each annum.

The Quran in correcting this notion, states it explicitly, that he was not killed, neither was he crucified. It would not make sense to say he wasn't killed, twice in the same verse.

People may interpret that in a radically different manner, fair enough, but thats just my take on it after having read the Quran and paying close attention to the essence of the whole Message, rather than plucking individual verses.

 

[SchiZo]

Does the Quran therefore say that some form of crucifixion was played out, but that not everything was as it seemed?

Simply interested.

I can explain it, however I think this one single verse can do it much better than myself. Interpret it as you see fit, I will just offer some commentary and thoughts of my own.

they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah" ;-

but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not :- [004.157]
​

I think there are many plausible theories as to what happened, but the above verse is what the Quran offers on the issue.

It can safely be said, that the thugs who wanted, and planned to execute Jesus did not succeed, yet it appeared to them that they had killed Jesus.

God will judge us based on our intentions in life, so I believe they will be held accountable for murder of a Prophet of God. Anyway, thats another topic.

I think the following verse is also relevant;

Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise ;- [004.158]
​

The above verse is a rather hot topic of discussion among muslims. "raised him up" could also be substituted for "took him up".
There has been a number of different interpretations of what this could mean, some saying that his soul was taken up while his body remained on earth.... you can imagine why this is so, due to the apparent conflict between the literal "raising of physical human body into the sky/heavens" and our current understanding of the laws of physics.

I can tell you though, from my understanding and some knowledge, that Jesus body was literally raised/taken away.

In the context of the above verses, the following short passage may be of interest (referring to Jesus);

And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them ;- [004.159]
​

Note the part "must believe in him before his death".

So Jesus is not dead, he is currently alive and still in his body. That is why I as an adherent of Islam believe that Jesus will return in the future. Not too many muslims understand this part.

I realize that this may sound absurd. But science is an incompetant tool for exploring other realms and understanding the various realities of existence. The Soul is the key to the Ghaib (Unseen). But that's alright, I'm not trying to prove anything here anyway. lol

 

[iBrian]

Well, I don't know much about the Gospel of Barnabas,

Apparently the Gospel of Barnabas is of Medaeival origin anyway: originating from Spain, around the 14-15th century, if I remember right - so it would probably not be acceptable as an authority.

And thanks for the answers. Interesting.

 

[Mus Zibii]

Well, authority depends on who you ask. Its an Islamic tradition, just a heretical one. There's a ton of non-Qu'ranic traditions on Jesus, the dialogue with the skull, etc.

~they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah"~

That would seem to imply that there either was a claim of a crucifixion, or something of the sort that the 'they' could back up their claim with. I think its important to note the various sects of Christianity that had a similiar doctrine. The Gospel of Barnabas had Judas being placed by God upon the cross, the Seth document has Simon of Cyrene being kind enough to not only help carry the cross, but take Jesus' place on it. Then there's the Docetism doctrines that see Jesus as a spirt. I, Brian mentioned Mark's breaking off after the empty tomb. All of this would indicate that there wasn't a Christian consensus prior to the forming of the canon and even after.

 

[Muslimah]

I seek refuge in Allah (The One God) from the Satan (devil) the cursed, the rejected

Assalamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh (May the peace, mercy and blessings of Allah be upon you)

Listen to the holy Quran---the Final Testament
Recitation of Sura Fathiha by Shiekh Saad Al-Ghamdhi of Saudi Arabia
http://www.islamworld.net/fathiha.au


&&&

Hey all, I'm a newbie here and this is my first post. ....

u may visit these links.

I am a Christian and have always wondered about the story of Jesus. My Mum says he died on the cross and then came back to live, which is very confusing. Islam says he never died but was raised up to heaven.

My question is: Did he die or not?
IslamonLine.net - Ask About Islam

Jesus (p) will return
Jesus Will Return - by Harun Yahya

IslamonLine.net - Ask About Islam
Crucifixion: Fact or Fiction?
IslamonLine.net



Salvation Through Jesus?
IslamonLine.net - Ask About Islam

 

[inhumility]

Re: JesusYeshua did not die on Cross

JesusYeshua did not die on Cross.What Quran has clearly stated, the same could be found in the Bible between the lines and I had been writing and giving evidences from Bible in this regard. History also provides many evidences.
Quran has mentionend in about 30 verses about the issue that JesusYeshuaIssa did not die on Cross.
The Holy Quran: Chapter 4: Al-Nisa' Verses 157-159
wa be-Kufre-him wa Qule-him ula Maryama Buhtahn-un Azimun. wa Qule-him enna Qatul-na Masiha Essa- uBna Maryama Rasul-ullahe, wa ma Qatalu-hu wa ma Salabu-hu wa lakin Shubbe-ha lahum; wa enn-Ullazeenu Khtalafu feehe lafee Shakk-emenhu, ma lahum behee min Ulmen ell-Utteba-uz-Zun;
wa Ma Qataluhu Yaqeenun. Bul Rafauhu-llahu elehe; wa kanullahu Uzeezun Hakeemun.
The Arabic text of the verse, in Roman alphabetic is given above so that the reader could recite it and be familiar with the original Word of Allah. It may please be noted here that we Muslims whatever the sect, we believe Quran in the original Arabic; the translations are interpretations or commentaries. in case of a contention on an issue ,the Arabic Text is to be invariably referred to and consulted and arguments presented.
Now we give hereunder the translation
[4:157] And for their disbelief and for their uttering against Mary a grievous calumny;
[4:158] And for their saying, 'We did slay the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah;' whereas they slew him not, nor did they bring about his death upon the cross, but he was made to appear to them like one crucified; and those who differ therein are certainly in a state of doubt about it; they have no certain knowledge thereof, but only pursue a conjecture; and they did not arrive at a certainty concerning it.
[4:159] On the contrary, Allah exalted him to Himself. And Allah is Mighty, Wise. Unquote
wa ma Qatalu-hu wa ma Salabu-hu wa lakin Shubbe-ha lahum, “whereas they slew him not, nor did they bring about his death upon the cross, but he was made to appear to them like one crucified” the verse never indicates that JesusYeshuaMasihEssa did not die a natural death. Is there no other way to die except by way of being killed or being pulled on a cross? This negation wa ma Qatalu-hu wa ma Salabu-hu “whereas they slew him not, nor did they bring about his death upon the cross” has been intended specifically to refer to Torah, Deuteronomy Chapter 21:23 “because anyone who is hung on a tree is under God's curse”, which states that he who is hanged on a Cross is cursed by GodAllah, and the Jews who conjured to hang him on Cross; they wanted to prove as per Torah YeshuaJesus was neither a Prophet of GodAllah nor he was a FavoredOne of GodAllah as they made him hang on to a Cross with the intention of killing him, since Torah mentioned that whosoever is hanged, is a CursedOne. Allah wanted to refute that accusation and brought into light the real fact; so Allah mentioned that MessiahMasihSonofMary did not get crucified or did not die on Cross and he was surely not killed but he later died a natural death.
Thank you
This is according to the Ahmadia View - a faith in Islam

 

[Muslimah]

Re: JesusYeshua did not die on Cross

Salaam;

..... so Allah mentioned that MessiahMasihSonofMary did not get crucified or did not die on Cross and he was surely not killed but he later died a natural death.
Thank you
This is according to the Ahmadia View - a faith in Islam

there is a verse in holy Quran that ( not the exact words ) surely Jesus (p) is the sign of the Last Day. So, if he died already , how can he come back again ?

 

[inhumility]

Re: JesusYeshua did not die on Cross

Salaam;

there is a verse in holy Quran that ( not the exact words ) surely Jesus (p) is the sign of the Last Day. So, if he died already , how can he come back again ?

Wa ulaikum usSalam
This is mentioned in Quran: Sura/Chapter Al-Zukhruf Verse 43:62 (61).The translation is:
But verily, he was a sign of the Hour. So have no doubt about it, but follow me. This is the right path.
We would remain here focused on the issue that Jesus did not die on Cross and died a natural death at the age of 120 years later at some point in the history, according to one Tradition. However, I would provide a short answer as under:
The ‘hour’ here may denote the time of the end of Mosaic Dispensation and of the rise of a new Shari’at, and the pronoun in the expression ennahu may refer to Jesus. The verse may thus signify that Jesus was the last Prophet of the House of Israel. His fatherless birth symbolizes the total spiritual sterility of the Israelite people. It also constituted a warning to the Jews that by their persistent rejection of truth and opposition to Heavenly Messengers, they had forfeited the Divine blessing of prophethood and, therefore no Prophet would henceforth spring from the loins of a Jewish father. It was in this sense that Jesus was “sign of the Hour” .Jesus himself realized this. He said to his people: "therefore I say unto you, the kingdom of God shall be taken away form you and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof" (Matt. 21:43)
Thanks
This is the Ahmadia View - a faith in Islam

 

[inhumility]

how can JesusIssa come back again

Salaam;

there is a verse in holy Quran that ( not the exact words ) surely Jesus (p) is the sign of the Last Day. So, if he died already , how can he come back again ?

Salaam
Muhammad, p.b.u.h, prophesized for the advent of MessiahMasihImamMahdi or (second arrival of ChristMessiah as per the Christians); which has come in the shape of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (1835-1908).It is very easy to understand as this riddle has been solved by Issa/Jesus in Bible by himself.
The facts is that , the Jews were waiting for Elijah, first ; who had gone with his chariot and horses to sky on a whirlwind as per OT, and who was to come as a forerunner of their MoshiachMessiah; if Elijah comes only then they could think of MoshiachMessiah coming. It is also true that John-The Baptist, who as per NT baptized (which is a sign of acknowledging/repentance/redemption of sins) MoshiachMessiahJesusYeshua and on whose hands as per NT Jesus got baptized, was symbolically Elijah as per NT as clarified by Jesus himself meaning that:
1. Anybody who is believed to be raised to sky in fact dies and would never come again in this world.
2. The person believed having been raised to sky ( meaning dead), his arrival again if prophesized is metaphoric and never literal or physical,
So as per the solution provided by JesusIssa and also prophesized by Muhammad, the second advent of MasihImamMahdiIssaIbneMaryam has been fulfilled in the shape of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.
The Jewish clergy of the time of JesusYeshua tried to kill him by putting him on the Cross and nailing him there, but by the grace of God he escaped death on Cross, and to cut the real story short, from Galilee he went alongwith his mother Mary in search of lost tribes of Israel who accepted him and he lived with them until he died at the age of 120 years, as per one tradition, and was buried in Mohallah Khanyar, Sirinagar, Kashmir, India. That proves that he was a true ProphetMessenger of God.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi - a faith in Islam