Do you reject original Sin?

[China Cat Sunflower]

A couple thousand years ago a man said "repent, the Kingdom of God is at hand." Ever since then , I guess, people have been repenting, and believing in Jesus saving them from their sins and etc. Where's the Kingdom? It was "at hand" two thousand years ago- where is it? What good has all this repenting and being "saved" done? I live a good life, as good as any average Christian as far as I can tell. I don't kill, don't steal, don't screw around on my wife, try to recycle, don't drain my motor oil in the ditch. I'm not Mother Theresa, but neither are you. So where's the advantage of being "saved"? It hasn't brought the Kingdom. It hasn't stopped any wars, and as a matter of fact had a lot to do with getting us into this latest one.

I'm thinking it must be about something else. I'm thinking all this talk about repenting and being saved is a cop-out. Jesus promised you'd all be persecuted. Are you? Doesn't look like it to me. Where's your cross? I don't see it. I don't see anything happening, just a lot of empty talk about sin and being saved and other things that don't make any difference to anything in any real sense. Jesus must be pissed.

Chris

 

[Muslimwoman]

Thank you Q, very well explained and I now understand.

Is that a generally held Chrsitian belief about original sin or do groups vary on the interpretations?

 

[Quahom1]

Oh I see, thank you for explaining. I would just be so thankful if I am allowed to sit in the broom cupboard or a damp cellar would do, got to be better than the other hot place.



May G-d bless her for her love of people, I'll look for the window.

What did she do at the wedding of Cana?

Mary (Miriam) told Jesus that the bridegroom was out of wine, and Jesus attempted to admonish His mother, stating His time was not yet nigh.

Mary, simply turned to the wine captain and instructed, "Do as He says".

Then her son Jesus, ordered the wine captain to bring vessels of water. He then blessed them, and directed the vessels to be distributed for the guests of the wedding to dip their cups.

The irony of the story is this. Usually, the best wine was served first, and then after the guests were pleasantly satiated (lol), the cheaper wine was provided to keep the "buzz/high" going.

But after tasting what was in the vessels, the wine captain approached the Bridegroom and exclaimed "Why did you save the best wine for last???"

v/r

Q

 

[Muslimwoman]

Mary, simply turned to the wine captain and instructed, "Do as He says".

See it doesn't matter if you are the mother of Sally or the mother of Jesus (pbuh), first and foremost you are a mother and your children will damn well do as you say LOL

 

[Quahom1]

Thank you Q, very well explained and I now understand.

Is that a generally held Chrsitian belief about original sin or do groups vary on the interpretations?

Well, that is the catholic view (and mine whole heartedly), and WE make up 1.23 billion of the 2.3 billion professed Christians in this world, so I suspect majority rules...

 

[Quahom1]

See it doesn't matter if you are the mother of Sally or the mother of Jesus (pbuh), first and foremost you are a mother and your children will damn well do as you say LOL

Eh, not quite. At first, Jesus did admonish His mother, stating "Do you not realize, it is not my time???"

But Moms know when the time is right, and a human mother, pretty much cajoled her God/son into His career...

 

[Muslimwoman]

Eh, not quite. At first, Jesus did admonish His mother, stating "Do you not realize, it is not my time???"

But Moms know when the time is right, and a human mother, pretty much cajoled her God/son into His career...

Oh the admonishment is just the 'man' thing Q but after all he did as he was told, as men usually do after protesting

 

[Quahom1]

A couple thousand years ago a man said "repent, the Kingdom of God is at hand." Ever since then , I guess, people have been repenting, and believing in Jesus saving them from their sins and etc. Where's the Kingdom? It was "at hand" two thousand years ago- where is it? What good has all this repenting and being "saved" done? I live a good life, as good as any average Christian as far as I can tell. I don't kill, don't steal, don't screw around on my wife, try to recycle, don't drain my motor oil in the ditch. I'm not Mother Theresa, but neither are you. So where's the advantage of being "saved"? It hasn't brought the Kingdom. It hasn't stopped any wars, and as a matter of fact had a lot to do with getting us into this latest one.

I'm thinking it must be about something else. I'm thinking all this talk about repenting and being saved is a cop-out. Jesus promised you'd all be persecuted. Are you? Doesn't look like it to me. Where's your cross? I don't see it. I don't see anything happening, just a lot of empty talk about sin and being saved and other things that don't make any difference to anything in any real sense. Jesus must be pissed.

Chris

I'm sorry you feel that way. But I don't Chris. Try walking a mile in my shoes. I could try walking a mile in yours...but you know what, neither of us would survive. I think we would literally die, if we had to...

That is where God's grace comes in I should think. And let me ask you something...when or if one were to constantly beat on another, yet the other constantly provided for the one...after awhile, wouldn't you be the least bit curious as to why he/she kept providing???

I know I would have to ask "why".

v/r

Q

 

[Quahom1]

Oh the admonishment is just the 'man' thing Q but after all he did as he was told, as men usually do after protesting

To a point. But there came a time when He was beyond His mother, and indeed tasked another to become the human "son" in His stead...again, strange relationships and cryptic yet plain communications about how Christians are to be...

v/r

Q

 

[Quahom1]

See it doesn't matter if you are the mother of Sally or the mother of Jesus (pbuh), first and foremost you are a mother and your children will damn well do as you say LOL

Perhaps, but the greater ramification here is the fact that the bridegroom apparently "BROKE TRADITION" by saving the best wine for last...Mom, may have started it, but God finished it, and once this occured (in Christian Scripture), Mary is out of the picture, and Jesus is in full flight as a prophet/rabbi/messiah/God come to earth.

That was the point of the story.

v/r

Q

 

[Thomas]

As ever Q, great insight.

You have a homiletic charism, my friend, and I think you'd make a great spiritual director ...

Thomas
(acknowledging that you could well be that already, it's just that I don't know it)

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

I'm sorry you feel that way. But I don't Chris. Try walking a mile in my shoes. I could try walking a mile in yours...but you know what, neither of us would survive. I think we would literally die, if we had to...

That is where God's grace comes in I should think. And let me ask you something...when or if one were to constantly beat on another, yet the other constantly provided for the one...after awhile, wouldn't you be the least bit curious as to why he/she kept providing???

I know I would have to ask "why".

v/r

Q

I just don't know what difference it makes, Joshua. You've got pie in the sky, I don't. But what difference does it make to the world here and now? All these Christians sitting around self congratulating about being "saved", waiting for the apocalypse. What good is that doing? Surely Jesus was talking about something radical and immediate. Something so counter-cultural that it would freak out the authorities, the power structures, and anyone vested in the social status quo. Those who chose to follow could expect a seriously hard time for participating in something so audacious. What happened to that? Maybe that was the plan, not yet another establishment with fat rich religious leaders like the Pope who lives in a flippin' palace for chrissakes. Maybe that's why, two thousand years later nothing's happened. Was Jesus really intending to create yet another politically connected oligarchy? That doesn't sound right to me.

Chris

 

[Quahom1]

I just don't know what difference it makes, Joshua. You've got pie in the sky, I don't. But what difference does it make to the world here and now? All these Christians sitting around self congratulating about being "saved", waiting for the apocalypse. What good is that doing? Surely Jesus was talking about something radical and immediate. Something so counter-cultural that it would freak out the authorities, the power structures, and anyone vested in the social status quo. Those who chose to follow could expect a seriously hard time for participating in something so audacious. What happened to that? Maybe that was the plan, not yet another establishment with fat rich religious leaders like the Pope who lives in a flippin' palace for chrissakes. Maybe that's why, two thousand years later nothing's happened. Was Jesus really intending to create yet another politically connected oligarchy? That doesn't sound right to me.

Chris

Sure you do (have pie in the sky). I'm a working stiff just like you. I have problems, and issues too. But I am NOT waiting for the end of days. I just have a big mouth and am willing to back it up. Jesus and Mamma always loved me...and that is good enough, for me.

I still pray for you my friend...and I'm sure in time you will figure things out that make sense to you.

v/r

Q

 

[Quahom1]

As ever Q, great insight.

You have a homiletic charism, my friend, and I think you'd make a great spiritual director ...

Thomas
(acknowledging that you could well be that already, it's just that I don't know it)

I'm a sailor, Thomas. But thank you for your kind words...that meant a lot to me.

v/r

Q

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

I can't do it Joshua. I can't do what Jesus wants. I love my life. I love my family. I like what I have. I can't lay down my life, I can't abandon my family, I can't sell everything I have and give it to the poor. I can't turn the other cheek. I can't love my enemies. All of these things that Jesus asks I'm unwilling to do. I can't be a Christian. "Saved" doesn't mean jack.

Chris

 

[Muslimwoman]

Perhaps, but the greater ramification here is the fact that the bridegroom apparently "BROKE TRADITION" by saving the best wine for last...Mom, may have started it, but God finished it, and once this occured (in Christian Scripture), Mary is out of the picture, and Jesus is in full flight as a prophet/rabbi/messiah/God come to earth.

That was the point of the story.

I was just trying to be lighthearted Q, not disrespectful. Mary (pbuh) was only out of the picture as far as the Bible stories go but she never left the life of Jesus (pbuh), she remianed an influence in his life until the end. G-d works through all mothers but particularly Mary (pbuh).

 

[Quahom1]

I can't do it Joshua. I can't do what Jesus wants. I love my life. I love my family. I like what I have. I can't lay down my life, I can't abandon my family, I can't sell everything I have and give it to the poor. I can't turn the other cheek. I can't love my enemies. All of these things that Jesus asks I'm unwilling to do. I can't be a Christian. "Saved" doesn't mean jack.

Chris

That is the "crux" of your problem Chris. You don't understand what it means to be a Christian. All you have to do is accept Jesus' gift for you. That is it. You're looking for a "catch" that does not exist.

Consider Joseph when his brothers came to Egypt to buy food. He could have had them put to death on the spot. But he didn't. Instead, he had them bring his father and father's household to Egypt, to be closer to him.

Consider Job, and his losses and 10 times gains. God gave him back ten times over what he had to begin with, simply because he refused to admonish or disavowe the Lord.

Both were betting men, and they bet on God to cover them...they bet wisely.

I bet on the Lord (I don't understand His ways, but I trust Him). According to the world the odds are 6.5 billion to 1 "against".

Those are odds I can live with, and my wager, is my life and my soul...

I'm afraid for my family too Chris. So since I'm not so secure in covering their every contingency, I ask God to step in and cover what I miss...

You'd be amazed at what I missed (I was floored)...

Anyway, the only way to keep your family...is to let go of your family (in your mind and heart, and soul), and let God cover your family for you.

Man plans. God guides man's steps.

v/r

Q

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

My understanding is that, at the time, what they would do is make up this really thick sort of fermented grape mash and then mix it with water so that the alcohol would kill the parasites in the water. Toward the end of the feast as they ran out of the concentrated mash they would start to mix the "wine" more watery since by then all the drunks were past noticing and to stretch it out. So it makes sense that it would be an odd thing for a batch of good stuff to come out at the end.

Chris

 

[Quahom1]

I was just trying to be lighthearted Q, not disrespectful. Mary (pbuh) was only out of the picture as far as the Bible stories go but she never left the life of Jesus (pbuh), she remianed an influence in his life until the end. G-d works through all mothers but particularly Mary (pbuh).

Indeed Ma'am. I am quite aware of British humor (humour) lol

me thinks you need to become aware of American irony...

I do enjoy your posts, thoughts and quips.

v/r

Q

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

But Joshua, how is the Kingdom manifested if no one does the heavy lifting? If every single follower doesn't sacrifice himself and his family and personal aspirations for the sake of following Jesus how does it get done? I could give you twenty texts to this effect, but I'm just asking the question?

Chris