Can we separate culture from religion?

Nick the Pilot said:
Ahanu,

The way I see it, the one thing that is the biggest thing in Chinese culture right now is the changes the communists have made in Chinese culture since WWII. Quite simply, the communists wiped out a lot of Confucianism, etc., from the culture. This has left the Chinese people quite pragmatic -- they do not "fool" with a lot of religious and philosophical theories, hypotheses, etc., they just figure out how to do something. (Chinese people, of course, will not admit this. They are extremely sensitive to criticism of Chinese government and culture. For example, they avoid the word "communism" as much as possible.)

But this does not mean that all Chinese ways have been wiped out. There are many ways of doing things that are the Chinese way of doing things, and these ways (provided they are not part of the cultural and social changes put in by the communists) have not changed. I just had a fascinating discussion with an Australian businessman here in China who is trying to teach Chinese builders how to use western-style scaffolding at his construction sites, with no success. Once Chinese construction workers are turned loose on their own, they revert back to using metal and bamboo scaffolding like they have used their whole life.

There is a move in the Chinese government to re-build Confucianistic, etc., principles within the people. Buddhism is actually being encouraged by the communist government. (The government "admits" its policy of no religion for decades has left many young Chinese people highly materialistic and without a high set of morals.) It will be fascinating to see how far it gets.
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Yeah, they kidnapped the Panchen Lama and replaced him with one of their own choosing. :/
 
Ahanu said:
I could not imagine what it would be like to see with culturally different eyes.
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Ahanu - have you ever lived in a foreign country? If you ever get the opportunity I think you would really enjoy it, given your apparent interest in learning about other cultures and languages. If you will allow me to get on my soapbox for a minute, here is an old essay I wrote in the 90's about my experience of studying abroad for a year in Mexico; hopefully it might motivate someone reading this forum to try living in another culture someday:

I'll never forget my first day of French class when I replied to the professor's challenge of (translated) "Who can give me some examples of French words you already know?" At the time I didn't realize that "bon voyage", "mardi gras", and "fiancée" weren't vocabulary staples for my Mexican classmates. Their looks of astonishment reinforced the fact that I was undertaking an experience that can't be duplicated in an American classroom.​

My greatest challenge, however, was neither the French course nor the engineering curriculum taught entirely in Spanish. Adjusting to a completely new culture was much more difficult than mastering the new subject matters. Living in a modest casa alongside nine other Mexican students was a shocking change from my previous residence in small-town Kansas. The year I spent in this new environment challenged many of my unknown paradigms: taking a shower with no hot water wasn't merely an inconvenience - it was a part of the daily routine; Montezuma's Revenge was no longer a laughing matter; and air conditioning in 110 degree heat was just a desert mirage. Material comforts that I thought I could never live without were nowhere to be found. Stereotypes and illusions that I had accumulated from 20 years of American media were shattered as I gained first-hand, intimate knowledge of a new culture, new people, and of myself.​

One of the most interesting people I met during my stay was Mona, a middle-aged native of Monterrey, who was a maid at the casa where I lived. We would sit and chat for hours over a plate of her huevos rancheros or enchiladas verdes. Mona was one of the happiest and most content people I had ever met. At first I couldn't understand how she could smile, laugh, and enjoy life so much while only earning $40 per week. At that stage of my life I thought happiness was a direct result of money. I was astonished that a minimum-wage worker in the US made more in a day than Mona did in an entire week! Becoming friends with Mona taught me a higher appreciation for the seemingly simple pleasures in life like family, friends, and good conversation. She showed me how happiness is indeed a state of mind and not something determined by material wealth or society's definition of "success".​

Living in Mexico broadened my views of history, language, religion, and way of life. Today I am a more open minded, philosophical individual because of this experience. The personal growth I experienced while in Mexico has been the foundation for subsequent foreign travels, opening my eyes to adventures and intercultural learning experiences I once never dreamed possible.​
 
"...they kidnapped the Panchen Lama and replaced him with one of their own choosing."

--> Fortunately, all Buddhists ignore this "new" Panchen Lama. Recently this Chinese Panchen Lama made a speech at a big Buddhist convention in Beijing, but all the foreign Buddhists in the audience completely ignored him and even talked right through his speech.
 
Etu Malku said:
It has? I don't doubt it.

However, I would like to see scientific DNA proof that there is a Jewish ethnicity.

Sorry for derailing the thread with this babble :o
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try this 2010 study in the american journal of human genetics; it seems pretty clear to geneticists that jews are from the middle east:

http://www.mashadi.info/pdf/jewishgenetics.pdf
AJHG - Abraham's Children in the Genome Era: Major Jewish Diaspora Populations Comprise Distinct Genetic Clusters with Shared Middle Eastern Ancestry

and that jews are very closely related to each other:

http://www.familytreedna.com/pdf/Behar 2004 mtDNA.pdf
Tracing the Roots of Jewishness - ScienceNOW
Studies Show Jews? Genetic Similarity - NYTimes.com
What We Can Learn From the Jewish Genome - The Daily Beast
Jews' Genetics Make Them A 'Distinct Population': NYU/Yeshiva Study
Genetics & the Jews | Gene Expression | Discover Magazine

despite what appears to be "evidence for a low level of introgression from host european non-jewish populations":

MtDNA evidence for a genetic bottleneck in t... [Eur J Hum Genet. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI

any questions? ask a geneticist.

b'shalom

bananabrain
 
Ahanu - have you ever lived in a foreign country?
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No, I have not. My plan is to teach English in China, so I have been studying the Chinese language.

As for your experience in Mexico, it sounds awesome. Well, with the exception of having no hot water. You said you lived in a rural area in Kansas. I'm guessing you lived the city life in Mexico? Perhaps Mexico City?

Quite simply, the communists wiped out a lot of Confucianism, etc., from the culture.
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Thanks for the historical background: that is another variable to factor in and consider.
 
Ahanu said:
My plan is to teach English in China, so I have been studying the Chinese language.
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Awesome! Mandarin, then? China will be a great spot for you to explore the relationship between language and culture and religion with the incredible diversity of languages spoken there.

Regarding English in China, I traveled to Hong Kong last decade and while I was grabbing a bite to eat at a street vendor I overheard a Chinese man talking to a cab driver in broken English. Apparently they each spoke a different language (there are an estimated 250 native languages spoken in China) and English was their strongest shared language.

When I was in Mexico there was an Asian student (don't remember from which country) in one of my classes. Was fun talking to her in Spanish, a second language for both of us, as she spoke better Spanish than English. She had a very distinct Spanish accent from the "gringo" accent. And occasionally she would try to translate a colloquialism from her native language into Spanish that would make me laugh as it made no sense once translated; which of course happened to me all the time as well...

Ahanu said:
I'm guessing you lived the city life in Mexico? Perhaps Mexico City?
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Lived in Monterrey (3rd-largest city), but traveled all over the country. Didn't want to live in Mexico City due to the extreme air pollution. I had very bad respiratory problems when I traveled to Mexico City, on a bad day there the air actually looks brown :(

I'm not sure of the air quality situation in big Chinese cities but if I were you I would definitely research that a bit before picking which city to live in...
 
Language must shape a Chinese person's interpretation of experience in a profound way.
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I'm walking circles around an unkown theory and didn't even know it until now.

Linguistic relativity.

The weak form states language influences thought.

The strong form states language not only influences thought, but constrains thought.

While most theorists support the weak form, new evidence from cognitive neurolinguistics supports the strong form:

"Color perception has been a traditional test-case of the idea that the language we speak affects our perception of the world.1 It is now established that categorical perception of color is verbally mediated and varies with culture and language.2 However, it is unknown whether the well-demonstrated language effects on color discrimination really reach down to the level of visual perception, or whether they only reflect post-perceptual cognitive processes. Using brain potentials in a color oddball detection task with Greek and English speakers, we demonstrate that language effects may exist at a level that is literally perceptual, suggesting that speakers of different languages have differently structured minds."

The Whorfian mind
 
Ahanu said:
I'm walking circles around an unkown theory and didn't even know it until now.

Linguistic relativity.

The weak form states language influences thought.

The strong form states language not only influences thought, but constrains thought.

While most theorists support the weak form, new evidence from cognitive neurolinguistics supports the strong form:

"Color perception has been a traditional test-case of the idea that the language we speak affects our perception of the world.1 It is now established that categorical perception of color is verbally mediated and varies with culture and language.2 However, it is unknown whether the well-demonstrated language effects on color discrimination really reach down to the level of visual perception, or whether they only reflect post-perceptual cognitive processes. Using brain potentials in a color oddball detection task with Greek and English speakers, we demonstrate that language effects may exist at a level that is literally perceptual, suggesting that speakers of different languages have differently structured minds."

The Whorfian mind
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Hmm... a test: try reading these words out loud as fast as you can without making errors:

Blue

Yellow

Orange

Brown

Violet

Red

Green

Black

Purple

Blue

Pink

Brown

Violet

Gray

Lilac
 
If we can separate culture from religion? No, we cannot. Religion is part of the culture of any people, as one's leg is part of one's body. The separation of that limb from one's body, will cause one never to be the same again. Religion, unfortunately, has been the cause of many evils perpetrated throughout History, but it can never be erradicated from culture. It has become inherent in the essence of the human soul.
Ben
 
Dream said:
The color reading test was easy for me. Does that mean I'm to be rewarded?
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seattlegal-albums-emoticons-picture707-welldone.gif
 
wil, do you have trouble with this test? I also find it easy. I guess some people are just better then others...
 
That was harder, I failed twice (said the wrong one once and had to stop and think once).
 
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