One God, Many Paths

Yahweh kid said:
it almost seem as if you are suggesting that Christians added to the Word
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People who were part of the early Christian movement wrote the Gospels and everything in the New Testament. As time went on, the early Church developed theology and as time went on further, theologians further developed theological ideas that they said was supported by the New Testament writings, going beyond the text at times and using terms like Trinity and explanations that are not stated in the text themselves. Believers often say they feel the theology is sufficiently supported by the words in either or both the Old or New Testament.
 
Yahweh kid said:
What is the definition of a Christian? Are mormons Christians? Many call themselves Christian, but Jesus says in Matt. 7 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven"
Even some universalists calls themselves Christians... 😁
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And the debate rages on - yes Mormons consider themselves Christian, for them I can see an argument for saying they are a distinctive Abrahamic faith in their own right due to additional material they report to be revealed scripture and the unique and distinct theology and worldview.

Since the earliest years of the church there have been universalists within the church, even some of the founding thinkers.
There were Christian Gnostics who supposedly believed in reincarnation. Some people have said they though Origen believed in reincarnation, but I'm not sure that is the case, more that he believed in the pre-existence of souls.
Conditional immortality is believed by some Christian denominations. Some but not all such denominations are non-Trinitarian.
Theologians of these denominations self-report being "more true to the bible than traditional Christianity" which of course traditional Christians disagree with.
(interestingly all of these various theories about the afterlife are considered plausible by some Jewish theologians)

Whether or not people "call themselves Christian" well, that starts going into discussions of things like self identification, labels, who accepts what label, how important is a label, who is a gatekeeper or authority for what the label means, and on and on.

And discussion rolls on...
 
TheLightWithin said:
People who were part of the early Christian movement wrote the Gospels and everything in the New Testament. As time went on, the early Church developed theology and as time went on further, theologians further developed theological ideas that they said was supported by the New Testament writings, going beyond the text at times and using terms like Trinity and explanations that are not stated in the text themselves. Believers often say they feel the theology is sufficiently supported by the words in either or both the Old or New Testament.
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The Bible is sufficient for me... :) I believe Christians are followers of Christ, believing He is God and that He is the only One who can Save us....The Trinity is also one of the core beliefs of a Christian.
 
Yahweh kid said:
You are correct, because they are non trinitarians 😁 ..... They choose to believe Jesus is not God, but they are not following the Scriptures..... “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”
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Ah, that one. Nontrinitarians do not in any way consider this statement a proof of the trinity.
In this case, when Jesus says "I am" what do you think he means? Do you think he is referring to himself?
That the words "I am" refer to the speaker somehow?
Or no... to YHWH - which means "I am" or "I will be what I will be"
Jesus is saying "Before Abraham, YHWH"
G-d himself came before Abraham.
Think of the context of the entire chapter, Jesus refers to G-d as having sent him.
 
muhammad_isa said:
..or maybe you are laughing at the poor, who have limited resources.
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No. I am laughing at the people who think that study of maths and science is inferior to the study of centuries old books.
I think India has the largest number of poor students in the world.

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Aupmanyav said:
No. I am laughing at the people who think that study of maths and science is inferior to the study of centuries old books..
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Why would you think so?
Religious instruction is often provided by the "church" .. do they not provide religious
instruction in Hindu temples?
Maybe not .. maybe there is not a lot to learn from Hinduism. ;)
 
muhammad_isa said:
instruction in Hindu temples?
Maybe not .. maybe there is not a lot to learn from Hinduism. ;)
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:) For your kind information, there is no instruction or sermon in Hindu temples. After bowing to the deity/deities, people would relax, men would discuss business, women will gossip or children will romp about. It is a place of contemplation or for people to soak the atmosphere.

:) There is a lot to learn in Hinduism, one can spend a whole life-time doing that. So many that we always divide them in two groups: 1. Principal and 2. The Rest. But generally it is individual study, reading Upanishads (of which we have 108+), Puranas (18+) or the epics like Ramayana or Mahabharata. Very few people study Vedas and even fewer understand them. Vedas have a part called Aranyakas (Forest Contemplations). They too are important.

Hindu learning is from the family, from the society and from poems of middle-age sages in vernacular languages.
Many from around the 15th Century, like Kabir (an orphan raised by Muslim couple who were weavers), Surdas, Tulsidas, Meera, Nanak, Namdev, Eknath, Jnaneshwar and those in South India (about whom I do not know much).
Yes, modern temples may have separate halls for sermons.
 
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Aupmanyav said:
Hindu learning is from the family, from the society and from poems of middle-age sages in vernacular languages.
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..so more culture than religion, then..

Islam and Christianity are religions .. and they are taught by the church/mosque.
Religious studies in schools and colleges came later, as the civilisations expanded.
 
TheLightWithin said:
Ah, that one. Nontrinitarians do not in any way consider this statement a proof of the trinity.
In this case, when Jesus says "I am" what do you think he means? Do you think he is referring to himself?
That the words "I am" refer to the speaker somehow?
Or no... to YHWH - which means "I am" or "I will be what I will be"
Jesus is saying "Before Abraham, YHWH"
G-d himself came before Abraham.
Think of the context of the entire chapter, Jesus refers to G-d as having sent him.
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"I am", means that Jesus is God. If you are a nontrinitarian, you will have a problem with that.
 
Yahweh kid said:
"I am", means that Jesus is God.
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Too simplistic .. do you make your conclusions from a few cherry-picked verses, or the whole
of the Bible?

In any case, why does it matter to you so much? Is it because you think that Jesus came along
to abolish the 'law' of the OT ?

..because some verses in the NT quote Jesus saying that he didn't come to abolish it.
 
Yahweh kid said:
"I am", means that Jesus is God. If you are a nontrinitarian, you will have a problem with that.
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Your interpretation, and yes a common one by trinitarians, who often think as you do that it somehow "clinches" things and makes non trinitarians undeniably wrong somehow.
Most of the time, we are interpreting it in the language we know, and not the original Greek.
I don't know what it looks like exactly in the original Greek, but from what I can tell in English, it seems perfectly possible he is saying
"Before Abraham, YHWH"
 
TheLightWithin said:
I don't know what it looks like exactly in the original Greek, but from what I can tell in English, it seems perfectly possible he is saying
"Before Abraham, YHWH"
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Yahweh the Father created with Yahweh the Son.
Isaiah 44:24: “Thus says Yahweh, your Redeemer(Jesus), and the one who formed you from the womb, ‘I, Yahweh, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself And spreading out the earth all alone.”

So the way many Christians(not all) understand this is that everything was made for Jesus by Jesus, but then the scriptures say that Yahweh is the maker of all things.... hopefully you can see that Jesus and the Father are both God and they both created all things. Jesus is the Word and when God created He spoke the creation in existence.... let there be light and there was light... God used His Word(Jesus) to create all things
Colossians 1:16: “For in [the Son] all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities⁠—all things have been created through Him and for Him.

John 1:14 And the Word became flesh(Jesus) and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, the glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth."

Since the Father is God and the Son, you can call them both Yahweh(God) if you really want to... The Hebrew name for Jesus the Son is Yeshua.
The only thing is that God has a Son, a Father and a Holy Spirit. 😊

Hope this helps just a little bit.
 
Yahweh kid said:
Since the Father is God and the Son ...
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The Father is not the Son. That's the whole point of saying that there are three persons.
Yahweh kid said:
God has a Son, a Father and a Holy Spirit.
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God does not have a Son, a Father, and a Holy Spirit. He is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
 
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