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Lunitik
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Can you please elaborate on this? I do not see how this pertains to spirituality at all, this seems quite worldly actually.
A spiritual person is...
- Thread starter Kenneth
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Can you please elaborate on this? I do not see how this pertains to spirituality at all, this seems quite worldly actually.
Snoopy
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Is this a general assertion, or just one that appertains to America?
Are you one? Am I one?
taijasi
Gnōthi seauton
... usually pretty much a relief for a change, and good to find.
Dream
Well-Known Member
Just Americans. Europeans are bound together by other things such as dry humor and shared memory of bubonic plague.Snoopy said:Is this a general assertion, or just one that appertains to America?
I have to keep my true potential a secret or countries might squabble over access to my DNA. I do not know about your true potential.
Dream
Well-Known Member
It is just my attempt at a proverb, so at first it appears worldly until you reframe it as a spiritual statement. The exact meaning is left up to you, so you either impose spirituality onto it or not. Think of it as an unfinished painting.Lunatik said:
I thought about ways to explain it, but I could not come up with anything effective accept to quote other people, such as Jesus. I have failed to explain it before, so a proverb seemed like a better thing. I could talk about it for a long time.
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
Sorta like the pseudo-haiku thread?
Dream
Well-Known Member
Sorta like your elegant pickle jar full of vinegar and peppers.
Saltmeister
The Dangerous Dinner
Imagine God meeting God.
God 1: Hello, God.
God 2: Hello, you must be God.
God 1: I'm almighty, powerful and all-knowing.
God 2: Oh ok, nothing more to say then. I know everything too.
God 1: (eternal silence)
God 2: (eternal silence)
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
If God were like the selfish individuals that merely seek some form of enlightenment for themselves, this would surely be true. There is a difference between knowing, and doing. Communication is not merely for an exchange of information. It is for coordination.
Dream
Well-Known Member
Objection. If you are going to compare me to anyone it should be either Jesus or Albert Einstein. I am certain you can find something that I have in common with them if you will only make the effort. That being said it is not clear whether either Jesus or Alby sought enlightenment, so I'll take your point with a grain of salt. The Bible does say that the Son learned obedience (Hebrews 5:8) by the things he suffered, though I do not know whether that equals seeking enlightenment. Are you using the Buddhist ideal of enlightenment? God of course can not be enlightened as that would suggest darkness in God. If God were a man, however, then I do not know. I am trying to understand your point about God and enlightenment and selfishness. So if stupidity is the cohesive factor this would only be true if God were an enlightenment seeker? How do I arrive at that conclusion? Thanks.luecy7 said:
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Lunitik
Guest
Umm, *merely* enlightenment? What in the world?
It is the ego which causes us to avoid fulfilling the needs of others, we believe we are too important to help. Through the suicide of ego - enlightenment - there is complete doing.
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
I wouldn't say suicide of ego is a good description, but rather transformation of ego (and pride) into widsom of equality. This still doesn't guarantee development of compassion, though.
Compare yourself. Whether you are like them is up to you and your knowledge of them.
If individuals invest their time and energy towards self improvement or gain, with little interest in others except for what can be gained from them, then I think you were correct: stupidity could be their cohesive factor.
Dream
Well-Known Member
What if God had to listen to God giving a lecture about God? If you can imagine that, then you have life the universe and everything in a nut-shell.Saltmeister said:
Saltmeister
The Dangerous Dinner
I think God would be humble and patient enough to listen to a lecture by God about God.
Vajradhara
One of Many
however.. having known all of that already... they wouldn't have even spoken or waved....
Dream
Well-Known Member
Is this an abstract point? If one has an elbow then one waves.
I'd say it is impossible to fulfill the needs of others, but we can help others to fulfill their own needs. The ego suicide concept is clearly selfish and misguided. Ego sacrifice would be the other route. The desire to NOT suffer in striving for the good, and for others, is selfish to the core. If the 8-fold path requires: right view, intention, speech, action, livelihood, effort, mindfulness, and concentration, then those who think they will find their enlightenment by brain-inactivity are headed in the opposite direction. The 8-fold path requires relationships with others, unless you consider it to be talking with yourself facing a statue in a mindless relaxful trance.
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Lunitik
Guest
Ego is the cause of suffering. We don't help others because we want something else for ourselves, we strive for things we cannot attain or continue setting further goals because this never fulfills us. You speak of the Eight Fold Path, what do you think Mara is? Mara is desire, Mara is ego, Sidhartha defeated his own ego. He killed his ego, just like many yoga and vedant groups discuss. This seems drastic to many people, they consider their ego as themselves and so it is scary. It is truly a beautiful thing in reality. Buddhism goes even further though, you are to discover that you yourself do not even exist - this is extremely difficult to attain when competing with an active ego.