A spiritual person is...

Lunitik said:
Ego is the cause of suffering. We don't help others because we want something else for ourselves, we strive for things we cannot attain or continue setting further goals because this never fulfills us. You speak of the Eight Fold Path, what do you think Mara is? Mara is desire, Mara is ego, Sidhartha defeated his own ego. He killed his ego, just like many yoga and vedant groups discuss. This seems drastic to many people, they consider their ego as themselves and so it is scary. It is truly a beautiful thing in reality. Buddhism goes even further though, you are to discover that you yourself do not even exist - this is extremely difficult to attain when competing with an active ego.
Click to expand...
While I recognize that I am in danger of being accused of studying the suttas only for the purpose to refute others, like this sutta says:
Alagaddupama Sutta

Misrepresentation

37. "So teaching, so proclaiming, O monks, I have been baselessly, vainly, falsely and wrongly accused by some ascetics and brahmans: 'A nihilist[38] is the ascetic Gotama; He teaches the annihilation, the destruction, the non-being of an existing individual.'[39]
"As I am not as I do not teach, so have I been baselessly, vainly, falsely and wrongly accused by some ascetics and brahmans thus: 'A nihilist is the ascetic Gotama; He teaches the annihilation, the destruction, the non-being of an existing individual.'
"What I teach now as before, O monks, is suffering and the cessation of suffering.​
 
"Now what is the noble truth of the origination of stress? The craving that makes for further becoming — accompanied by passion & delight, relishing now here & now there — i.e., craving for sensuality, craving for becoming, craving for non-becoming... And what is the noble truth of the cessation of stress? The remainderless fading & cessation, renunciation, relinquishment, release, & letting go of that very craving."

Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta.
 
Snoopy said:
"Now what is the noble truth of the origination of stress? The craving that makes for further becoming — accompanied by passion & delight, relishing now here & now there — i.e., craving for sensuality, craving for becoming, craving for non-becoming... And what is the noble truth of the cessation of stress? The remainderless fading & cessation, renunciation, relinquishment, release, & letting go of that very craving."

Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta.
Click to expand...
Sounds like this craving for enlightenment, and the cessation, or letting go, of that craving.
 
seattlegal said:
Q. What do you do if you meet the Buddha on the road?
A. Kill him.:eek::(:confused::):D
Click to expand...

Q. What do you do if you are holding Buddha on the edge of a cliff?
A. Let him go.

Q. Buddha's wife is craving for Buddha, making love to him on the edge of a cliff. What should Buddha's wife do if she were in that position?
A. I think you know the answer.
 
seattlegal said:
While I recognize that I am in danger of being accused of studying the suttas only for the purpose to refute others, like this sutta says:
Alagaddupama Sutta

Misrepresentation

37. "So teaching, so proclaiming, O monks, I have been baselessly, vainly, falsely and wrongly accused by some ascetics and brahmans: 'A nihilist[38] is the ascetic Gotama; He teaches the annihilation, the destruction, the non-being of an existing individual.'[39]
"As I am not as I do not teach, so have I been baselessly, vainly, falsely and wrongly accused by some ascetics and brahmans thus: 'A nihilist is the ascetic Gotama; He teaches the annihilation, the destruction, the non-being of an existing individual.'
"What I teach now as before, O monks, is suffering and the cessation of suffering.​
Click to expand...

I am not sure what point you think you are making here? Please explain what you think this quote is saying.

A nihilist is one who believes there is no point to life, Buddha clearly does not agree with this view. He also teaches that we neither are existent nor non-existent - something quantum physics is actually confirming - thus this quite negative view is rather one sided. As for emptiness, it is being confirmed that we are 99.99999999% empty, thus again a confirmation from Science.

Enlightenment still means the destruction of the self, the ego. Not the physical body, not our consciousness, only the ego. It will always mean this, no matter who is teaching it.
 
Lunitik said:
I am not sure what point you think you are making here? Please explain what you think this quote is saying.

A nihilist is one who believes there is no point to life, Buddha clearly does not agree with this view. He also teaches that we neither are existent nor non-existent - something quantum physics is actually confirming - thus this quite negative view is rather one sided. As for emptiness, it is being confirmed that we are 99.99999999% empty, thus again a confirmation from Science.

Enlightenment still means the destruction of the self, the ego. Not the physical body, not our consciousness, only the ego. It will always mean this, no matter who is teaching it.
Click to expand...

There is a difference between the non-acceptance of self theory--that there is an eternal, unchanging self, and the destruction of ego. The ego may cling to the idea of self, but the non-acceptance of self-theory doesn't necessarily mean the destruction of ego.
 
Lemme put it another way:
Lunitik said:
Enlightenment still means the destruction of the self, the ego. Not the physical body, not our consciousness, only the ego. It will always mean this, no matter who is teaching it.
Click to expand...
mu.

If there is no self, there is no self to destroy.

The ego is not the self.
 
seattlegal said:
There is a difference between the non-acceptance of self theory--that there is an eternal, unchanging self, and the destruction of ego. The ego may cling to the idea of self, but the non-acceptance of self-theory doesn't necessarily mean the destruction of ego.
Click to expand...

You don't seem to like this word, you should probably investigate within yourself as to why it is hitting a cord.
 
Lunitik said:
Ego is the cause of suffering. We don't help others because we want something else for ourselves, we strive for things we cannot attain or continue setting further goals because this never fulfills us. You speak of the Eight Fold Path, what do you think Mara is? Mara is desire, Mara is ego, Sidhartha defeated his own ego. He killed his ego, just like many yoga and vedant groups discuss. This seems drastic to many people, they consider their ego as themselves and so it is scary. It is truly a beautiful thing in reality. Buddhism goes even further though, you are to discover that you yourself do not even exist - this is extremely difficult to attain when competing with an active ego.
Click to expand...

Compare your post to this part of the sutta I posted:
The Snake

10.[8] "There are here, O monks, some foolish men who study the Teaching;[9] having studied it, they do not wisely examine the purpose of those teachings. To those who do not wisely examine the purpose, these teachings will not yield insight.[10] They study the Teaching only to use it for criticizing or for refuting others in disputation. They do not experience the (true) purpose[11] for which they[12] (ought to) study the Teaching. To them these teachings wrongly grasped, will bring harm and suffering for a long time. And why? Because of their wrong grasp of the teachings.
"Suppose, monks, a man wants a snake, looks for a snake, goes in search of a snake. He then sees a large snake, and when he is grasping its body or its tail, the snake turns back on him and bites his hand or arm or some other limb of his. And because of that he suffers death or deadly pain. And why? Because of his wrong grasp of the snake.
"Similarly, O monks, there are here some foolish men who study the Teaching; having studied it, they do not wisely examine the purpose of those teachings. To those who do not wisely examine the purpose, these teachings will not yield insight. They study the Teaching only to use it for criticizing or for refuting others in disputation. They do not experience the (true) purpose for which they (ought to) study the Teaching. To them these teachings wrongly grasped, will bring harm and suffering for a long time. And why? Because of their wrong grasp of the teachings.
11. "But there are here, O monks, some noble sons who study the Teaching;[13] and having studied it, they examine wisely the purpose of those teachings. To those who wisely examine the purpose, these teachings will yield insight. They do not study the Teaching for the sake of criticizing nor for refuting others in disputation. They experience the purpose for which they study the Teaching; and to them these teachings being rightly grasped, will bring welfare and happiness for a long time. And why? Because of their right grasp of the teachings.
"Suppose, monks, a man wants a snake, looks for a snake, goes in search of a snake. He then sees a large snake, and with a forked stick he holds it firmly down. Having done so he catches it firmly by the neck. Then although the snake might entwine with (the coils of) its body that man's hand or arm or some other limb of his, still he does not on that account suffer death or deadly pain. And why not? Because of his right grasp of the snake.
"Similarly, O monks, there are here some noble sons who study the Teaching; and having learned it, they examine wisely the purpose of those teachings. To those who wisely examine the purpose, these teachings will yield insight. They do not study the Teaching for the sake of criticizing nor for refuting others in disputation. They experience the purpose for which they study the Teaching; and to them these teachings being rightly grasped, will bring welfare and happiness for a long time. And why? Because of their right grasp of the teachings.
12. "Therefore, O monks, if you know the purpose of what I have said, you should keep it in mind accordingly. But if you do not know the purpose of what I have said, you should question me about it, or else (ask) those monks who are wise.
​
Notice the difference between the blue and the green highlighting?


​
 
seattlegal said:
The 7th consciousness cogitates the false idea of self.
Click to expand...

From your own link:

Practice becomes effortless and the self is destroyed for good.

On the eighth ground of the Bodhisattva all further cultivation is spontaneous and without personal effort because there is no longer any self.

Again, note that this is the false self - the ego - as understood by other schools such as yoga and vedanta circles, as well as sufi and various other mystics.
 
Lunitik said:
From your own link:

Practice becomes effortless and the self is destroyed for good.

On the eighth ground of the Bodhisattva all further cultivation is spontaneous and without personal effort because there is no longer any self.

Again, note that this is the false self, the ego.
Click to expand...
The 7th consciousness will assign the false idea of self to different areas. (such thinking the 8th consciousness to be the self, etc.) When all areas of assignation of the false concept of self have been refuted, there can no longer any resistance due to the assigning of 'self.'
 
seattlegal said:
The 7th consciousness will assign the false idea of self to different areas. (such thinking the 8th consciousness to be the self, etc.) When all areas of assignation of the false concept of self have been refuted, there can no longer any resistance due to the assigning of 'self.'
Click to expand...

I'm confused, are you still disputing my statement or just rambling? Not trying to be mean, I just don't see the point of this statement.
 
Lunitik said:
I'm confused, are you still disputing my statement or just rambling? Not trying to be mean, I just don't see the point of this statement.
Click to expand...

It is the attachment to the false idea (or delusion) of self that causes the suffering and impediments. The source of this false idea is the 7th consciousness. Refuting the false idea of self is like pinning the 7th consciousness down at the head with a forked stick, as is mentioned in the Alagaddupama Sutta. It is not the death of anything, it is the dispelling of delusion.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top