Death is an illusion

muhammad_isa said:
..and that needs interpretation.
It is dependent on measurement .. and I know that it has to be a theoretical measurement..
..because nobody has a "tape-measure" long enough to measure that. :D
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Are the electrons not spinning right from the time when the first atoms were formed?

"The first “atoms” in the universe were not atoms at all—they were just nuclei that had not found electrons yet. The simplest nucleus, that of common hydrogen, is a bare proton with no frills. When the universe banged into existence, energy was rampant. Everything was smashing into everything else. Protons and neutrons often collided, and some formed larger nuclei, such as that of deuterium (containing a proton and a neutron), as well as helium nuclei with two protons and two neutrons. Various other arrangements of protons and neutrons also formed, but because the identity of an atom is determined by its number of protons, all these other conglomerations were basically just different versions of hydrogen, helium and traces of lithium."
www.scientificamerican.com

The First Molecule in the Universe

Scientists have identified mystery molecules in space and the compound thought to have started chemistry in the cosmos
www.scientificamerican.com www.scientificamerican.com
 
Thomas said:
Morality is an integral part of religion, in that it concerns how we relate to each other. It's 'cleariong the ground' in that sense. No-one gets to the top of the mountain by piling dead bodies to make a ramp.
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Probably correct that it is a necessary step to later experience “good” more internally and then want to do good for its own inherent expansion of spirituality/wholeness. Morality is a fake it til you make it method of spiritual growth, called Sutric in eastern thought. Christianity with its whole union with Christ emphasis is more Tantric. Works faster and more thoroughly than fake it til you make it. In fact, I wonder if Adam and Eve’s main fall from Tantric-like Grace was trying to be moral before they could understand sufficiently WHY, before they were able to be conscious of the inherent benefit of Love and Faith. Perhaps they would have been better off to be morally unschooled “Gentles?” until something like Christ consciousness developed. Moralism can end up being a sneaky ego trap. The crutch can be worse than the lame leg that Christ’s symbolic spiritual touch healed on more than one (probably mythical/symbolic, but deeply meaningful nonetheless) occasion, per the stories of the movement.
 
otherbrother said:
What you described could be useful even if not true in an objective or metaphysical way, because the human mind as it imagines and thinks or even perceives is always projecting and often does not reclaim the projections in the form of personal insights from them or spiritual growth. Even if it is all only in a subjective reality, Ken Wilber’s upper left quadrant of kinds of “truth.”
Perhaps believing that the projection is physical is a useful, meaningful, myth that could help us give more attention and weight to the projection/reclamation process? Or it could be physically true also. Either way, we benefit, as long as we take responsibility for our spiritual growth and don’t give in to fatalistic superstition via insisting on literalism. Hold mental and physical gently in our minds so that they might work together for our transcendence of mere illusion and for our spiritual growth, positive transformation.
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In college I took a placement test to help me identify a career direction, I scored very high in spatial reasoning, hence the reason that I studied computer programming in school. I can imagine entire systems in my head and design and build from these images, which later I found that my true interests were in tool making and fabrication. What I am getting at is that even though I can imagine to this level my dreams and meditations fail in comparison to there ability to form imaginations and muster time to build entire systems.

An example of a meditation that I had, and I use this example to show not only that it had a lot of time but that the experience also taught me something I did not know anything about before this time. I moved up overlooking my brain and there were all these arms moving in the air "monkey arms" the thought was pushed into my thoughts and then an opening in a place foreign to me that had grasses much taller then me opened up. As we moved through the grass I could see monks sitting in the tall grass working on something and then the experience ended. I did not understand the monkey arms so I looked it up and the monks believe that the mind/brain needs to be taught and these minds brains are like monkeys. I have so many experiences that they have used to teach me things it is so hard to explain this.

In the beginning of this time one of the first things I did was become myself, in the first mind, there were people on the other side that helped me clear myself and find my time. For many years before this event I would find this place that had just this green grid covering my face, I tried so many times to find answers but the internet was in it's infancy. Anyway, the grids are an advanced virtual reality, they are placed over the whole body and then teaches you into the matrix. Right after becoming myself I was preparing for a nap and found myself on this ship inside of a small room and they had this grid they pulled up and over my body and the experience ended. The grids are like a fine meshed blanket but they are lit up I want to say they are made of a spider silk but that is only a guess, I believe this because the spiders can seem to figure them out.

I am not my body, but I did become myself inside this body to experience this lifetime.

powessy
 
Aupmanyav said:
Are the electrons not spinning right from the time when the first atoms were formed?

"The first “atoms” in the universe were not atoms at all—they were just nuclei that had not found electrons yet. The simplest nucleus, that of common hydrogen, is a bare proton with no frills. When the universe banged into existence, energy was rampant. Everything was smashing into everything else. Protons and neutrons often collided, and some formed larger nuclei, such as that of deuterium (containing a proton and a neutron), as well as helium nuclei with two protons and two neutrons. Various other arrangements of protons and neutrons also formed, but because the identity of an atom is determined by its number of protons, all these other conglomerations were basically just different versions of hydrogen, helium and traces of lithium."
www.scientificamerican.com

The First Molecule in the Universe

Scientists have identified mystery molecules in space and the compound thought to have started chemistry in the cosmos
www.scientificamerican.com www.scientificamerican.com
Click to expand...
I find myself in thought about the universe in waves or brief moments of time. They talk about no time all the time, how did they get here they traveled through no time, where is no time? it is before light and nothing here. There are timelines with nothing here, and also travel can be done in these timelines as well. I once moved up into a timeline that had nothing in it and nothing here so powessy moved off through this space till a figure was spotted and as we approached I noticed it was a man that was just walking endlessly through this empty space. I entered into this person and into his yourself where he was stuck within his time he had here.

This method of traveling through nothing here is done by the soul not the body where you can travel to other worlds in no time. The problem is you have no body and you are not the people of that world so you can not just become yourself or themselves there you have to know how to use minds to teach you.

I love to see other worlds as I get the chance, he only teaches me new worlds as I find their time, it has to be something that doesn't make sense to me, us.

powessy
 
powessy said:
This method of traveling through nothing here is done by the soul not the body where you can travel to other worlds in no time. The problem is you have no body and you are not the people of that world so you can not just become yourself or themselves there you have to know how to use minds to teach you.
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The moment you say 'soul', you are being unscientific. Do you have any evidence for existence of soul in humans or animals?
Mind is OK. Thought experiments. RigVeda indulged into one such thought experiment:

1. THEN was not non-existent nor existent: there was no realm of air, no sky beyond it.
What covered in, and where? and what gave shelter? Was water there, unfathomed depth of water?
2 Death was not then, nor was there aught immortal: no sign was there, the day's and night's divider.
That One Thing, breathless, breathed by its own nature: apart from it was nothing whatsoever.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN CXXIX. Creation.

Rig Veda, tr. by Ralph T.H. Griffith, [1896], full text etext at sacred-texts.com
sacred-texts.com
 
Aupmanyav said:
The moment you say 'soul', you are being unscientific. Do you have any evidence for existence of soul in humans or animals?
Mind is OK. Thought experiments. RigVeda indulged into one such thought experiment:

1. THEN was not non-existent nor existent: there was no realm of air, no sky beyond it.
What covered in, and where? and what gave shelter? Was water there, unfathomed depth of water?
2 Death was not then, nor was there aught immortal: no sign was there, the day's and night's divider.
That One Thing, breathless, breathed by its own nature: apart from it was nothing whatsoever.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN CXXIX. Creation.

Rig Veda, tr. by Ralph T.H. Griffith, [1896], full text etext at sacred-texts.com
sacred-texts.com
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I awaken to a forceful vibrational tug and out of my body I leave, I have done this thousands of times to move down the hallway and then back to my body as I reenter into it. Many times I would have full body paralyzation and then pulled out into my room to hover over my body for as long as I could hold myself there. What am I that is not in my body if I am not my soul. The funny thing is that I can see them on my head and can feel them gently moving all around my body, When they exert pressure on my crown it cracks from the force, so yes with the proper equipment I believe I could easily prove the existence of the soul and the minds that teach us.

There are millions of more things in the universe that do not figure things out then that do. Science means nothing to those who are still those many things. dinos were around for 24 hours and man for only a minute it may take the universe time to figure things out.

the reason I make the dino point is that minds are everything inside of themselves to become something here including dinos.

powessy
 
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wil said:
Ooo....oooo....mister Cartair (horschack reference for aging US audience)

I so wanna answer but will hold off. But I do believe requiring a belief in G!d to be spiritual is a very limiting constraint, and that there were spiritual folk prior to the concept of gods or G!d. But I will wait before I continue that line.
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I agree, there is a definitive difference between religion and spirituality.
 
I ain't denying you can't be both, nor either, nor does one imply the other...all are possible.

Ai says...

Spirituality is a broad term encompassing the search for meaning, purpose, and connection, often with something beyond the self. It can manifest in various ways, including religious practices, personal beliefs, and a sense of interconnectedness with nature or humanity.

Here's a more detailed look at different aspects of spirituality:
Key Concepts:
    • Search for Meaning and Purpose:
      Spirituality often involves seeking a deeper understanding of life's purpose, meaning, and the nature of reality.
    • Connection to Something Greater:
      This can involve a belief in a higher power, a sense of interconnectedness with nature, or a deeper understanding of oneself and one's place in the universe.
    • Personal Beliefs and Practices:
      Spirituality can be expressed through various practices, including prayer, meditation, mindfulness, art, and spending time in nature.
    • Religious vs. Secular Spirituality:
      Some individuals find meaning and purpose through organized religion, while others explore spirituality without religious affiliation, often through practices like meditation or yoga.
Examples of Spiritual Practices:
    • Prayer:
      Engaging in personal or communal prayer, often involving expressing gratitude, seeking guidance, or connecting with a higher power.
    • Meditation:
      Cultivating mindfulness and inner peace through focused attention and reflection.
    • Mindfulness:
      Paying attention to the present moment without judgment, often practiced through exercises like deep breathing or body scans.
    • Yoga:
      A practice combining physical postures, breathing techniques, and meditation, promoting body-mind-spirit connection.
    • Art and Creative Expression:
      Engaging in artistic activities like painting, writing, or music, which can be a powerful way to explore inner emotions and experiences.
    • Time in Nature:
      Spending time outdoors can foster a sense of wonder, awe, and connection to the natural world.
    • Service to Others:
      Engaging in acts of kindness and compassion, helping others, and contributing to the well-being of the community.
 
wil said:
I ain't denying you can't be both, nor either, nor does one imply the other...all are possible.

Ai says...

Spirituality is a broad term encompassing the search for meaning, purpose, and connection, often with something beyond the self. It can manifest in various ways, including religious practices, personal beliefs, and a sense of interconnectedness with nature or humanity.

Here's a more detailed look at different aspects of spirituality:
Key Concepts:
    • Search for Meaning and Purpose:
      Spirituality often involves seeking a deeper understanding of life's purpose, meaning, and the nature of reality.
    • Connection to Something Greater:
      This can involve a belief in a higher power, a sense of interconnectedness with nature, or a deeper understanding of oneself and one's place in the universe.
    • Personal Beliefs and Practices:
      Spirituality can be expressed through various practices, including prayer, meditation, mindfulness, art, and spending time in nature.
    • Religious vs. Secular Spirituality:
      Some individuals find meaning and purpose through organized religion, while others explore spirituality without religious affiliation, often through practices like meditation or yoga.
Examples of Spiritual Practices:
    • Prayer:
      Engaging in personal or communal prayer, often involving expressing gratitude, seeking guidance, or connecting with a higher power.
    • Meditation:
      Cultivating mindfulness and inner peace through focused attention and reflection.
    • Mindfulness:
      Paying attention to the present moment without judgment, often practiced through exercises like deep breathing or body scans.
    • Yoga:
      A practice combining physical postures, breathing techniques, and meditation, promoting body-mind-spirit connection.
    • Art and Creative Expression:
      Engaging in artistic activities like painting, writing, or music, which can be a powerful way to explore inner emotions and experiences.
    • Time in Nature:
      Spending time outdoors can foster a sense of wonder, awe, and connection to the natural world.
    • Service to Others:
      Engaging in acts of kindness and compassion, helping others, and contributing to the well-being of the community.
Click to expand...
And what does AI say about 'religion'?
 
Religion:
    • Organized System:
      Religion is a structured system of beliefs, practices, and rituals that are typically shared by a community or group.
    • Emphasis on Rituals and Practices:
      Religions often involve specific rituals, prayers, and worship ceremonies that help adherents connect with their faith.
    • Shared Beliefs and Practices:
      Religions typically have a set of beliefs about the nature of the divine, the afterlife, and morality that are shared by members of the religion.
    • Institutional Structure:
      Religions often have a hierarchical structure, with leaders, clergy, and institutions that provide guidance and support to members.
    • Objective and Communal:
      Religions often present a set of objective truths and teachings that are believed to be shared by all members of the faith.
Key Differences:
    • Personal vs. Communal:
      Spirituality is primarily a personal journey, while religion is often a communal practice.
    • Open-ended vs. Fixed:
      Spirituality can be an open-ended exploration, while religion often has a fixed set of beliefs and practices.
    • Focus on Inner Experience vs. External Practices:
      Spirituality emphasizes introspection and inner experiences, while religion often focuses on external practices and rituals.
    • Emphasis on individual autonomy vs. adherence to doctrine:
      Spirituality promotes individual autonomy in defining and connecting to the divine, while religion often emphasizes adherence to established doctrines.
While they are distinct, spirituality and religion can overlap and coexist. Some individuals may be both spiritual and religious, finding that their personal spiritual beliefs align with their religious faith. Others may be spiritual but not religious, finding that their personal journey of meaning and purpose does not require adherence to a religious system.
 
powessy said:
I did not understand the monkey arms so I looked it up and the monks believe that the mind/brain needs to be taught and these minds brains are like monkeys.
Click to expand...
In the Unity church I used to attend, they talked about "monkey mind" the mind jumping around - I guess it is something generally taught as part of helping people become accustomed to meditation.
 
Aupmanyav said:
The moment you say 'soul', you are being unscientific. Do you have any evidence for existence of soul in humans or animals?
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Well, I don't think the concept of soul is very well defined. There are a lot of assumptions around it.
Being unscientific may or may not be a problem or the problem, depending on the approach. In spiritual practice people are not always aiming for scientific publication or anything.
 
rocala said:
Not sure that I follow this line of reasoning. If life is an illusion, is the end of the illusion i.e. death, necessarily an illusion too?
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Or, conversely, is death waking up to reality? Is that a possible implication?
But what kind of case could anybody make for that? It's an idea, sure... but is there anything that could support such an idea?
 
powessy said:
I awaken to a forceful vibrational tug and out of my body I leave, I have done this thousands of times to move down the hallway and then back to my body as I reenter into it. Many times I would have full body paralyzation and then pulled out into my room to hover over my body for as long as I could hold myself there. What am I that is not in my body if I am not my soul. The funny thing is that I can see them on my head and can feel them gently moving all around my body, When they exert pressure on my crown it cracks from the force, so yes with the proper equipment I believe I could easily prove the existence of the soul and the minds that teach us.

There are millions of more things in the universe that do not figure things out then that do. Science means nothing to those who are still those many things. dinos were around for 24 hours and man for only a minute it may take the universe time to figure things out.

the reason I make the dino point is that minds are everything inside of themselves to become something here including dinos.
Click to expand...
Mind's journeys.
 
rocala said:
Not sure that I follow this line of reasoning. If life is an illusion, is the end of the illusion i.e. death, necessarily an illusion too?
Click to expand...
I think so. Does any of the molecules in the body dies with death? Generally, just an old car which refuses to start, many of its components fail and we do not have the technology to restart it. Or sometimes it is a good enough car which gets involved in accidents and becomes useless.
 
TheLightWithin said:
Or, conversely, is death waking up to reality? Is that a possible implication?
But what kind of case could anybody make for that? It's an idea, sure... but is there anything that could support such an idea?
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No, IMHO. People die without realizing the reality. Does not make much difference in life. Because even after finding or getting close to reality, persons will die.
 
Aupmanyav said:
I think so. Does any of the molecules in the body dies with death? Generally, just an old car which refuses to start, many of its components fail and we do not have the technology to restart it. Or sometimes it is a good enough car which gets involved in accidents and becomes useless.
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I do see your point Aup, but I think in a spirituality forum, the possibility of a non-material aspect is to be considered and that is where the differences truly come into play.
 
TheLightWithin said:
Or, conversely, is death waking up to reality? Is that a possible implication?
But what kind of case could anybody make for that? It's an idea, sure... but is there anything that could support such an idea?
Click to expand...
Two good points there. Maybe people more spiritually advanced than me have greater insight on this but I can only guess. I do not know how a case for the idea could be made. Probably it would depend on other beliefs that were accepted.

Consider Spiritualism, reincarnation, N.D.E.s. There are numerous accounts that give believers faith in the reality of one or more of these, but I do not know of anybody having found this "reality" upon departing this life.

I think Buddhism starts to look good here. What does intrigue me though, is if Buddhism is a way to this "reality", is it the only way?
 
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