Christ, My Bodhisattva

pattimax said:
Do you agree with Pathless' reality definition of nirvana? Please understand that I don't want to debate this, it's been about 7 years since I seriously studied it. Have definitions changed that much?
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Hi,

I don’t think the “definition” of nirvana will have changed in 7 years, I think it might simply be a matter of what you read. It is a term that has been described in lots of ways, as one might expect as people attempt to describe that which is beyond concepts. In other words if you’d never tasted a banana I could describe it and define it forever for you but ultimately you can only experience it for real by eating one.

A couple of examples you may have come across:
Nirvana is the extinguishing of the triple fires of greed, hatred and ignorance.
Nirvana is the other shore to which we are taken by the boat of Buddhism, across the ocean of suffering.

Regarding the definition given by Pathless: we are “in” samsara because we are ignorant of the true nature of reality (the word buddha means “one who is awake”), if we are able to wake up to reality then we are “in” nirvana. So yes I agree with Pathless, nirvana is reality.

My final point is that the “definitions” of nirvana (or at least their emphasis) vary both between traditions and schools.

s.

PS Can’t help with the Larry and INXS stuff.
 
Snoopy said:
I don’t think the “definition” of nirvana will have changed in 7 years, I think it might simply be a matter of what you read.

PS Can’t help with the Larry and INXS stuff.
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Wasn't nirvana a "rock" band whose lead singer killed himself?
 
juantoo3 said:
Wasn't nirvana a "rock" band whose lead singer killed himself?
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Yup. Or was it a set-up, a frame-up, a mafia job? Courtney Love--naaah. Could be someone's favorite conspiracy theory.

Forget Larry the Cable Guy. What about Larry the Cucumber?

veggietriangle2.thumbnail.jpg



:D
 
Snoopy said:
Never thought I'd see nirvana being discussed in this forum. A bodhisattva refrains from taking the "final step" to nirvana in order to assist all sentient beings across to the other shore.

s.
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I've also seen pictures of Jesus up in Hindu temples...
 
Pathless said:
And isn't Jesus quoted as saying at one point, "Verily, ye are all gods?"
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You are doing what most people do when they are attempting to rationalize a point of view, you are taking one scripture out of context.

Jesus was talking to HIS followers and how they should treat each other.
 
Pathless said:
Sure, and why not? After all, the "polytheism" of "Hinduism" sees divinity in all things, hence the prolific amount of "gods," "avatars," and enlightened people.
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Yes, he is up there as one of their gurus...
pattimax said:
You are doing what most people do when they are attempting to rationalize a point of view, you are taking one scripture out of context.

Jesus was talking to HIS followers and how they should treat each other.
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And you don't think He is still talking to His followers as how we should treat each other today?
 
From what I can gather, if one wanted to see Christ in Buddhist terms, He would more likely be described as an "arhat", but I suppose "bodhisattva" might apply. I think most Buddhists, however, would ask what most Christians ask, that being, why do we need to see Him that way? Why not just have our being in Him? (This doesn't mean we must say that there is no value for a Christian within Buddhist philosophies, just that it is probably not necessary to go in search of a definitive blend.) I might be wrong here, but I have been looking into this stuff a bit. :)

Also, if I may--the phrase "ye are gods" comes up an awful lot, and people find lots of different meanings there. While I do believe that there is a spark of divinity in us when we are in Christ who is in the Father, I really think that in passages in the Bible that use this exact phrase (I'll list them below for reference), the words are directed to people who wield great power over others, such as religious leaders and royalty. I don't think it applies in such a broad fashion as is often suggested. Anyway, if anyone wants to take a look, be sure to read either the whole chapters or at least the verses surrounding the ones listed in order to really meditate :) upon the context. I'm not trying to preach, but this is an issue that bugs me a little--I think this is definitely one of those times when translation is really important. I think it is a fine, but important line--and y'all know that I am one who likes to erase those lines where they are not needed. But in this case....well, anyway--here are the references:

Psalm 82:6
Isaiah 41:23
John 10:34
1 Corinthians 3:9

(Edited by me to add: I don't want to be misunderstood--I am not saying that an individual, because of particular circumstances peculiar to his or her situation or surroundings cannot find a connection between Christian theologies and Dharmic philosophies--in fact "connection" can be wonderful, but just that most of the time, I think we try to make one into the other, and that is where it can become, as someone said, "slippery". Just wanted to be clear on that. :))

InPeace,
InLove
 
wil said:
Yes, he is up there as one of their gurus...And you don't think He is still talking to His followers as how we should treat each other today?
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Of course I do. Only His followers need to realize that he is not just one of many gurus, teachers, prophets, avatars, etc. He IS Lord.:)
 
InLove said:
From what I can gather, if one wanted to see Christ in Buddhist terms, He would more likely be described as an "arhat", but I suppose "bodhisattva" might apply.

InPeace,
InLove
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That would depend on the school, Mahayana, Theraveda, or Varjayana.

Mahayana ideal is bodhisattva.
Theraveda ideal is arhat.
Varjayana is known as the diamond way.
 
Thanks so much for listing Psalm 82:6 as a reference. I absolutely love what Matthew Henry (one of my favorite bible commentary writers) has to say about it...
It is hard for men to have honour put upon them, and not to be proud of it. But all the rulers of the earth shall die, and all their honour shall be laid in the dust. God governs the world. There is a righteous God to whom we may go, and on whom we may depend. This also has respect to the kingdom of the Messiah. Considering the state of affairs in the world, we have need to pray that the Lord Jesus would speedily rule over all nations, in truth, righteousness, and peace.

(this actually refers to verses 6-8)
 
Thanks, patti. I get my Buddhist (and Hindu) terms all tangled up sometimes!

And wil--I hope you weren't offended. You and I don't often disagree, do we? Maybe I am just reacting a little bit because lately, this particular phrase has been used over and over to point in a direction that completely rewrites Christianity, and to insist that I haven't the foggiest idea about my own religious and cultural background. And it hasn't been you doing it, either. It is someone in my non-computer spaces--you don't ever use it to that extreme. Anyway, I felt kinda bad about it, so I thought I'd say so....I think I'm just tired.
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InPeace,
InLove
 
Eh, I need to check the context of the gods thing. I know I have three Bibles around here somewhere...

Thanks for the contextual references and general straightening-up, pattimax and InLove. I haven't read the Bible in a good while.

Nirvana can be found found in Samsara (for :p ;) pattimax),
Pathless
 
To be in Samsara indicates being unenlightened.
Nirvana expresses several levels of enlightenment.:)

This is why Christ is THE bodhisattva. He has already achieved nirvana.
 
Can you show me the shine of your Japan, the sparkle in your China?
 
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