Thoughts about Trinity beliefs

walter said:
Jesus Father is his God before and after Jesus is resurrected and ascends to heaven.
Jn. 17:3, 1Pet. 1:3, Eph. 1:3, Rom. 15:6, Eph. 1:17, Jn. 20:17, 1Cor. 8:6, 1Tim. 2:5, Jn. 5:30, 5:19, 6:38, 8:28, 14:10;
Matt. 16:16-17, 28:18
Do you let the Bible do all the talking and explaining of your beliefs?

In this way I get a strictly biblical view using only the scriptures.
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But you didn't do that. You put your own words first, and didn't quote any words from the Bible, which means that you are literally putting your own words ahead of the words of the Bible.
 
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walter said:
Jesus Father is his God before and after Jesus is resurrected and ascends to heaven.
Jn. 17:3, 1Pet. 1:3, Eph. 1:3, Rom. 15:6, Eph. 1:17, Jn. 20:17, 1Cor. 8:6, 1Tim. 2:5, Jn. 5:30, 5:19, 6:38, 8:28, 14:10; Matt. 16:16-17, Matt. 28:18
Do you let the Bible do the talking and explaining for your beliefs?
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There are ways of understanding the word "is," for "Jesus is God" to agree with what the Bible says. For example if we think of the word "God" in that sentence as an adjective meaning "like God in ways that no other human is." I'm not saying that's what it means, just an example of what it could mean, for "Jesus is God" to be true.

(later) Do you think that the apostle Thomas was wrong when he looked at Jesus and said "my Lord and my God?"
 
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otherbrother said:
I sometimes personify the I-amness, Being (as in fully being) nature of God as “BOB” (Base Of Being,” a variation of Tillich’s Ground of Being). “Hey, Bob, please help me…” Or “Dear Bob, thanks so much for…”, etc.
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I can agree with the sentiment ... but Bob? That would be problematic...

I was talking to my eldest grandson about Spiderman. "You know his name?" "Spiderman." "No, his first name." "I don't know." "It's Bob." And, according to me, every superhero, Ninja Turtle, Supermario ... every character he's into, their first name is Bob.

Repeat this exercise with his younger sister, and my grandson of another daughter ... it's reached the point now where I say "You know his name?" talking about anybody, and they'll give me that "he's at it again" look, and roll their eyes and say "Bob."

Now I hear the eldest two found a spider living in the top right-hand corner of a french window, and have named him (drumroll, please) ...

So as much as I agree with it, if I were to explain the concept of 'God' to my grandkids by the analogy of BoB, I'd probably be doing both them and God a disservice. 🫣
 
Longfellow said:
If you don't listen to the many, where did you get the idea of saying "triune God"?
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Your issue with my statement is the word triune? I'm not sure why so can you explain? I do not listen to the many but I do have bible teachers that I follow and I've said this. These teachers tell me not to believe them but to search out scripture for myself. I'm a non denominational protestant. Trinity is the doctrine.. triune describes God in the doctrine.

Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more

adjective
adjective: triune
  1. consisting of three in one (used especially with reference to the Trinity).
    "the triune Godhead"
 
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Longfellow said:
Why is it important to you to call what you see in the Bible "a triune God"? And do you think that anyone who doesn't agree to call it that is disagreeing with the Bible?
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Yes. We are told to beware of anyone teaching a different doctrine because of false teachers and prophets.
 
walter said:
Jesus Father is his God before and after Jesus is resurrected and ascends to heaven.
Jn. 17:3, 1Pet. 1:3, Eph. 1:3, Rom. 15:6, Eph. 1:17, Jn. 20:17, 1Cor. 8:6, 1Tim. 2:5, Jn. 5:30, 5:19, 6:38, 8:28, 14:10; Matt. 16:16-17, Matt. 28:18
Do you let the Bible do the talking and explaining for your beliefs?
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Faithfulservant said:
Do you? Or do you let the watchtower interpret scripture for you. I'm not going to list why the Holy Spirit and Jesus are God to me.. read through all the threads we have on the trinity it's pretty thorough.
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I'm curious about what both of you would think about how I'm thinking about it. First, as I said before, I think that what people need to know most of all is that Jesus has all the power, authority, knowledge and wisdom of God, and everything else that is God in the world. That's how I can agree with saying that He is God. He is everything that God is in the world, and in that sense there is no other God but Him.

One reason from the Bible for people saying that Jesus is God is because the apostle Thomas says to Him "My Lord and my God," and Jesus seems to approve of that. Another is the passage in the gospel of John that says "the Word was God ... and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us."

Imagine a person in an art gallery looking at a painting, puzzled for a while, then saying "Oh it's Big Ben!" That doesn't mean that the painting itself is Big Ben. What Thomas says could be similar. Jesus is everything that God is in the world, but not in any physical way, and that's what Thomas sees in Jesus for the first time in that moment.

I know there's disagreement about who actually wrote the gospel of John, but let's imagine that it was written by the apostle. It would have been later in his life, with a lot of experience in explaining the teachings of Jesus in terms of Greek philosophy. The word that is translated "the Word" is from Greek philosophy, and the in the original language the word "God" in "the Word was God" might mean His qualities rather than God Himself. That's how some of the church fathers understood it, and that's how it's written in the Nicene Creed: The Son is of one essence with the Father. The bishops who signed the creed agreed that the essence is not physical. So it's true in a way to say that Jesus is God, but not in any physical way.
 
Longfellow said:
There are ways of understanding the word "is," for "Jesus is God" to agree with what the Bible says. For example if we think of the word "God" in that sentence as an adjective meaning "like God in ways that no other human is." I'm not saying that's what it means, just an example of what it could mean, for "Jesus is God" to be true.

(later) Do you think that the apostle Thomas was wrong when he looked at Jesus and said "my Lord and my God?"
Click to expand...
Jn. 17:3, 1Pet. 1:3, Eph. 1:3, Rom. 15:6, Eph. 1:17, Jn. 20:17, 1Cor. 8:6, 1Tim. 2:5, Jn. 5:30, 5:19, 6:38, 8:28, 14:10;
Matt. 16:16-17, 28:18
 
Longfellow said:
I'm curious about what both of you would think about how I'm thinking about it. First, as I said before, I think that what people need to know most of all is that Jesus has all the power, authority, knowledge and wisdom of God, and everything else that is God in the world. That's how I can agree with saying that He is God. He is everything that God is in the world, and in that sense there is no other God but Him.

One reason from the Bible for people saying that Jesus is God is because the apostle Thomas says to Him "My Lord and my God," and Jesus seems to approve of that. Another is the passage in the gospel of John that says "the Word was God ... and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us."

Imagine a person in an art gallery looking at a painting, puzzled for a while, then saying "Oh it's Big Ben!" That doesn't mean that the painting itself is Big Ben. What Thomas says could be similar. Jesus is everything that God is in the world, but not in any physical way, and that's what Thomas sees in Jesus for the first time in that moment.

I know there's disagreement about who actually wrote the gospel of John, but let's imagine that it was written by the apostle. It would have been later in his life, with a lot of experience in explaining the teachings of Jesus in terms of Greek philosophy. The word that is translated "the Word" is from Greek philosophy, and the in the original language the word "God" in "the Word was God" might mean His qualities rather than God Himself. That's how some of the church fathers understood it, and that's how it's written in the Nicene Creed: The Son is of one essence with the Father. The bishops who signed the creed agreed that the essence is not physical. So it's true in a way to say that Jesus is God, but not in any physical way.
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Jn. 17:3, 1Pet. 1:3, Eph. 1:3, Rom. 15:6, Eph. 1:17, Jn. 20:17, 1Cor. 8:6, 1Tim. 2:5, Jn. 5:30, 5:19, 6:38, 8:28, 14:10;
Matt. 16:16-17, 28:18

I am trying to take your advice and just state the Bible. You are correct I should not use any of my own words.
My own personal words are not of any value.

I extend to you peace and happiness to you and your family. ❤️
 
Longfellow said:
I don't know how I missed all this. What I think that people need to know most of all is that Jesus has all the power, authority, knowledge and wisdom of God, and in fact there is no power, authority, knowledge or wisdom of God in the world, other than His.
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When we include all the scriptures we can find on the Bible topic, I feel we would be getting a more complete understanding of what the Bible intended.

I try to listen to what the majority of the scriptures are saying, not so much the few scriptures that seem to explain a different line of reasoning. Thank you for all your good advice I will keep it in mind.
 
walter said:
When we include all the scriptures we can find on the Bible topic, I feel we would be getting a more complete understanding of what the Bible intended.

I try to listen to what the majority of the scriptures are saying, not so much the few scriptures that seem to explain a different line of reasoning. Thank you for all your good advice I will keep it in mind.
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I don't think that any real understanding of the Bible comes from mining the Bible for verses that agree with what some church teaches, and taking them out of context to prove or illustrate some belief about God and Jesus. I think that whatever can be learned from God by reading the Bible would be from reading the whole story, more than once, and reading the whole chapter and maybe the one before and after, for every verse, to understand the context. Most important of all, studying and practicing with others, using it as a way to develop qualities and capacities for service, considering it not as a book about what to think and say about God and Jesus, but about how to live the way that He says to live.
 
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Jn. 17:3
Berean Standard Bible
Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.

1 Pet. 1:3
New International Version
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Eph. 1:3
King James Bible
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Rom. 15:6
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
That you may with one mind and one mouth glorify God The Father of our Lord Yeshua The Messiah.

Eph. 1:17
New American Standard Bible
that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him.

Jn. 20:17
Holman Christian Standard Bible
“Don’t cling to Me,” Jesus told her, “for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to My brothers and tell them that I am ascending to My Father and your Father—to My God and your God.”

1 Cor. 8:6
NASB 1977
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

1 Tim. 2:5
Douay-Rheims Bible
For there is one God, and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus:

Jn. 5:30, 5:19, 6:38, 8:28, 14:10; Matt. 16:13-17, 28:18
 
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walter said:
Jn. 17:3
Berean Standard Bible
Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.

1 Pet. 1:3
New International Version
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Eph. 1:3
King James Bible
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Rom. 15:6
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
That you may with one mind and one mouth glorify God The Father of our Lord Yeshua The Messiah.

Eph. 1:17
New American Standard Bible
that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him.

Jn. 20:17
Holman Christian Standard Bible
“Don’t cling to Me,” Jesus told her, “for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to My brothers and tell them that I am ascending to My Father and your Father—to My God and your God.”

1 Cor. 8:6
NASB 1977
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

1 Tim. 2:5
Douay-Rheims Bible
For there is one God, and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus:

Jn. 5:30, 5:19, 6:38, 8:28, 14:10; Matt. 16:16-17, 28:18
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Those are all showing that the Father and the Son are not the same person, which is exactly what Trinity doctrine says.

Incidentally, I don't agree with mining Bible verses to make a point. I was just pointing out that you weren't actually doing what you said you were doing.
 
walter said:
Then why are they not talking about the scriptures that I am?
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Good point. :D

(later) My theory is that they don't really believe in the Trinity doctrine, or even know what it actually says. For them it's just to prop up equating Jesus with God so that a few hours of Him suffering far less than multitudes of people do every day can be multiplied by infinity to equal the punishment that all people all through time deserve, or the debt that they owe, according to a concept of justice contrary to everything that God says in the Bible.
 
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Longfellow said:
Those are all showing that the Father and the Son are not the same person, which is exactly what Trinity doctrine says.

Incidentally, I don't agree with mining Bible verses to make a point. I was just pointing out that you weren't actually doing what you said you were doing.
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Scriptures Say that our father is his father and our God is his God.
 
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