A non-Christian understanding of the Christian Bible

Longfellow said:
The church lost its way as soon as the twelve started debating about who would be greatest in the kingdom.
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Fair enough. And I consider the disgraces of 'the churches' ever since those days.
I see the divisions as soon as I read a few verses from G-John. For me the gospel of Mark (less the Christian additions) is the true account and even the miracles in that story have temporal explanations.
Having said that I go to a couple of tea-n-chat meetings each week and most of the Christians there are very fine people. ♥️
 
There's a discussion going on in another thread, about the word "God" when it is applied to Jesus. It looks to me like that same word is applied in the scriptures not only to the God of Israel but also sometimes to other divine beings. There are some terms that are used only for the God of Israel and never to other divine beings, and none of those are ever applied to Jesus.

I see myself as being in agreement with one or more of the fathers in saying that we can't know anything about the essence of God, all we can know about is the energies. The only meaning that it can have for us to say that the Son is of the same essence as the Father, is in the energies.
 
Longfellow said:
There's a discussion going on in another thread, about the word "God" when it is applied to Jesus. It looks to me like that same word is applied in the scriptures not only to the God of Israel but also sometimes to other divine beings. There are some terms that are used only for the God of Israel and never to other divine beings, and none of those are ever applied to Jesus.

I see myself as being in agreement with one or more of the fathers in saying that we can't know anything about the essence of God, all we can know about is the energies. The only meaning that it can have for us to say that the Son is of the same essence as the Father, is in the energies.
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Interesting. I might look at that thread.

As a Non-theistical Deist I think of Jesus as a wise and good man who stood up for the working people of the Northern provinces where both Jews and pagans lived.

For me the title 'God' refers to the total sum of all matter, energy and all else that exists, and I do not believe that mankind has any special position or communication to this at all. How can we? .....we are so recent and such a tiny portion of all that is in this universe; what an amazing idea!
 
badger said:
Does that mean that the way of Jesus is no longer followed?
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Mostly a bunch of CINOs? (Christians in name only)?

Present company excluded...

The cherry picking of the bible..sell your stuff and buy a sword...cuts in every direction imaginable hence thousands of denominations.

I think one way or another everyone strays from whatever as exemplified from the plethora of issues in the monasteries, schools, and revs and priests worldwide.

But while I claim not any route it surely aint sainthood I am not holier than a worm but will say it seems 99.9% of us should worry about the log and not the speck.

Personal growth means fertilizing the goo in ya and pulling out the weeds by the roots!
 
wil said:
Mostly a bunch of CINOs? (Christians in name only)?

Present company excluded...
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I know many CINOs who are very decent, who have just followed the ways that they were taught and grown used to over many years.

And then there are those who just cannot help the hypocrisy.

I am not a Christian but I do have the greatest respect for the man Jesus who I have learned about over a long time.
wil said:
I think one way or another everyone strays from whatever as exemplified from the plethora of issues in the monasteries, schools, and revs and priests worldwide.
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For sure
wil said:
But while I claim not any route it surely aint sainthood I am not holier than a worm but will say it seems 99.9% of us should worry about the log and not the speck.
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Yes, but at the same time some specs just cannot be overlooked. Our authorities, such as police, need to concentrate on digging out other people's 'logs' during their duties, and then concentrate on their own failures in their spare time.
wil said:
Personal growth means fertilizing the goo in ya and pulling out the weeds by the roots!
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Oh no! And I was just getting to feel comfy this morning! Now you've reminded me of all that muck clearing that I need to do.:confused:
 
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Longfellow said:
I've never found anyone online or offline, who seems to feel or think the way I do about Jesus.
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The Bible tells us who Jesus is, it is not a feeling...... this is the only way we will not be deceived by the adversary, since he has a strong influence on our emotion, desires and thoughts. :) Jesus is the Word, the Rock, the reason for our existence.
 
Longfellow said:
I'm not a Christian, but I grew up in a Christian family, I went through confirmation class in a Christian church, I recognize and accept Jesus as my Lord, and I have an intense interest in what the Christian Bible says about Him and His kingdom.

In my understanding of the Christian Bible, part of what it means by "the kingdom" is a way of life that Jesus brought into the world, people learning together as a community to live the way that He says to live. When I say "Jesus," I mean the one in the gospel stories, imagining that person in the gospel stories as a person who was teaching in and between Galilee near the end of the Second Temple period, and not any kind of "historical Jesus," or "Christ spirit." I'm thinking that many people in Capernaum were learning to live that way under His care and guidance, and that kind of learning spread from there into society in all directions. One way that it spread was in communities with leaders approved by the Apostles, and that evolved into Christianity. The way that people enter that kingdom is by seeing God in Jesus and being moved by that to want to serve and obey Him and learn together to live the way He says to live. In my understanding, what they believe and don't believe, and whether or not they are "Christians" by any definition, has nothing to do with it. They could be followers of any religion, or none.


(later) I'm not sure that I know what it means to be saved. I'm thinking that maybe it means being saved from slavery to the sinful side of our nature.
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The “kingdom” you describe is, an allegory of what happens when man glimpses his own potential and mistakenly attributes it to an external god. The Western Left Hand Path reclaims that spark. It is not about serving His will, but realizing your own.

The so-called “kingdom” is not an external realm built upon obedience to a divine hierarchy, but a symbol of inner sovereignty, the awakening of the god within. Where Christianity teaches salvation through submission to a make-believe God’s will, the Western Left Hand Path teaches transcendence through self-mastery.

To see “God in Jesus” is not to worship him, but to recognize in his myth the reflection of one’s own potential for gnosis. The tragedy of exoteric faiths is that they project this light outward, turning personal revelation into collective servitude. You will also find this in most Occult organizations and philosophies.

The Left Hand Path reclaims the inner kingdom as the birthright of every awakened being. To obey is to dream; to will is to awaken.
 
I said this in another thread, but I think it belongs here too: In my understanding, calling Jesus "Lord," "Master," "Savior," "God" and "Son of God," is nothing but empty words, and not at all the gift of faith that comes by grace, if it doesn't mean service and obedience to Him, inspired by seeing God in Him.
 
Yahweh kid said:
What is the origal story and how did it change into the mystical spiritual miracle? Is it that Jesus is the Savior, the Son of God?
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My opinion: The story was about a man who wanted to raise up the working people against corruption, greed and injustice from the Jewish rulers who were acting for the Roman occupiers.

In my opinion: The young church spun the temporal life of Jesus in to the miracle of the God on Earth.

Yes, I don't think that Jesus was the son of God, and Christianity's record over two millennia seem to show that.

But Jesus was an amazing man....yes.
 
Longfellow said:
Now I’m thinking that if the kingdom of God is accessible in a Christian context today, it might be in connection with study circles using spiritual growth materials from Christian bookstores.
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It might be ... depends on the circle.

I think there are plenty of other places.
 
wil said:
We are not supposed to get political! Lol
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I think that you are one of the bosses, and Thomas? Would it be possible to ask questions of you both about your point (above) because you've mentioned this twice in recent days and I'm having some difficulty with it because every part of the history of the Israelites and also Jesus's mission is a history of political issues. Certainly the legislation and second reading of the laws in Leviticus/Deuteronomy is exactly about law, crime, punishment and rules for all.
 
badger said:
My opinion: The story was about a man who wanted to raise up the working people against corruption, greed and injustice from the Jewish rulers who were acting for the Roman occupiers.

In my opinion: The young church spun the temporal life of Jesus in to the miracle of the God on Earth.

Yes, I don't think that Jesus was the son of God, and Christianity's record over two millennia seem to show that.

But Jesus was an amazing man....yes.
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Ok, tx.....I understand where you are coming from. I believe Jesus is amazing and He did rose from the dead based on historical arguments like the empty tomb and the disciples' eyewitness...... The Bible is the best-selling book of all times, maybe there is more to it as just a book... for instance the prophecies, how many books are based on prophecies.......... can a man see the future, if so, how? I believe there has to be another source, maybe a being who is outside of time revealing the future to us through people.

It is interesting how people's beliefs or opinions differ so much............... I believe if we are open for the Truth and search it wholeheartedly we will find it. It is a needle in a haystack, for there are so many religions, beliefs, etc..... could it be that there is an adversary that wants to deceive us from the Truth...... I guess we will definitely know when we leave this life. Do we not all believe in something........ourselves, a god or maybe science. The Bible(the best selling book in the world) says peace comes by trusting God and His Word through faith in Jesus Christ..... this has given me peace.

Just my thoughts..... :) Be blessed.
 
Longfellow said:
In my understanding, calling Jesus "Lord," "Master," "Savior," "God" and "Son of God," is nothing but empty words
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I believe that these words are powerful, it tells the world who you belong to, who is your God...... it is difficult for many to say that Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior.... 1 John 4 "Does this spirit confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh?" Romans 10 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." So the Bible focusses more on confession and not works. I do agree that in some instances it could be empty and that we should look at the fruit of the spirit... my concern is only that we should not focus on the work of man but rather the Gift of God. We can also look at the good thief on the cross, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your Kingdom.” , do you believe his words were empty? We shouldn't judge a person's words, that is for God to make, but we can test the spirit.... 👍
 
Yahweh kid said:
Ok, tx.....I understand where you are coming from. I believe Jesus is amazing and He did rose from the dead based on historical arguments like the empty tomb and the disciples' eyewitness...... The Bible is the best-selling book of all times, maybe there is more to it as just a book... for instance the prophecies, how many books are based on prophecies.......... can a man see the future, if so, how? I believe there has to be another source, maybe a being who is outside of time revealing the future to us through people.

It is interesting how people's beliefs or opinions differ so much............... I believe if we are open for the Truth and search it wholeheartedly we will find it. It is a needle in a haystack, for there are so many religions, beliefs, etc..... could it be that there is an adversary that wants to deceive us from the Truth...... I guess we will definitely know when we leave this life. Do we not all believe in something........ourselves, a god or maybe science. The Bible(the best selling book in the world) says peace comes by trusting God and His Word through faith in Jesus Christ..... this has given me peace.

Just my thoughts..... :) Be blessed.
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Yahweh kid, thank you for your post. I was very interested to read your post and it is pleasant indeed to hear that you have peace through your beliefs.

I have no intention of ever directly challenging any person's beliefs if they are the cause of friendship and peace to all, I meet with Christians (and others) twice a week and we have great conversations and enjoyment together.

I think the way is to take interest in every bodies' and any bodies' good lives and beliefs and of course that has to include every and any doctrines and religions.

You'll notice that I debate 'strongly' with members like Thomas but I only do that because I think that it gives us both an interest, I certainly don't think that we are pitted against each other fiercely. Over many years it has challenged me and can adjust or even change my points of view.
 
badger said:
I think that you are one of the bosses ...
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There is only one boss ... 🤣

badger said:
... Would it be possible to ask questions of you both about your point (above) because you've mentioned this twice in recent days and I'm having some difficulty with it because every part of the history of the Israelites and also Jesus's mission is a history of political issues...
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It's really difficult because in the current climate reasoned discussion opens the door to flame wars.

I would offer that Jesus habitually sided with the underdog; the poor, the oppressed, the downcast, the downtrodden, the dispossessed. He was generally against wealth and definitely against the avaricious acquisition thereof, and he had absolutely no time for the boastful and the hypocrite. Compare that outlook to that of some contemporary political figures, and I'll leave the rest to you ...
 
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