Gospel of Thomas

Thank you.

But can it be added to the IO homepage apocrypha library, to complete the entry for the GoT?
 
Thomas said:
There's a lot of stuff on Early Christian Writings
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This site (Interfaith Forums) has an excellent library of apocrypha originally compiled by IBrian: https://www.interfaith.org/christianity/apocrypha/

It's very complete and a very good resource, but needs to be updated to include the full text of the Gospel of Thomas, because the full text has only been discovered recently -- after the IO apocrypha library had been completed.

So the IO apocrypha library Gospel of Thomas needs to be updated.

https://www.interfaith.org/christianity/apocrypha-gospel-of-thomas/

Apocrypha: Gospel of Thomas
the “scholars’ translation” of the gospel of thomas

These are the secret sayings that the living Jesus spoke and Didymos Judas Thomas recorded.

1 And he said, “Whoever discovers the interpretation of these sayings will not taste death.”

2 Jesus said, “Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all. [And after they have reigned they will rest.]”

3 Jesus said, “If your leaders say to you, ‘Look, the (Father’s) kingdom is in the sky,’ then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, ‘It is in the sea,’ then the fish will precede you. Rather, the

That's all there is...
 
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RJM Corbet said:
This site (Interfaith Forums) has an excellent library of apocrypha originally compiled by IBrian: https://www.interfaith.org/christianity/apocrypha/

It's very complete and a very good resource, but needs to be updated to include the full text of the Gospel of Thomas, because the full text has only been discovered recently -- after the IO apocrypha library had been completed.

So the IO apocrypha library Gospel of Thomas needs to be updated.

https://www.interfaith.org/christianity/apocrypha-gospel-of-thomas/

Apocrypha: Gospel of Thomas
the “scholars’ translation” of the gospel of thomas

These are the secret sayings that the living Jesus spoke and Didymos Judas Thomas recorded.

1 And he said, “Whoever discovers the interpretation of these sayings will not taste death.”

2 Jesus said, “Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all. [And after they have reigned they will rest.]”

3 Jesus said, “If your leaders say to you, ‘Look, the (Father’s) kingdom is in the sky,’ then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, ‘It is in the sea,’ then the fish will precede you. Rather, the

That's all there is...
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Thanks for pointing this out. There’s a lot that I’d like to update in sections, both for completeness and for grammar corrections.

My track record of timely updates on the site isn’t great. But I am trying to allocate more time this year to do such things on the site. I’m happy to have people help me, too :)
 
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StevePame said:
Thanks for pointing this out. There’s a lot that I’d like to update in sections, both for completeness and for grammar corrections.

My track record of timely updates on the site isn’t great. But I am trying to allocate more time this year to do such things on the site. I’m happy to have people help me, too :)
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Steve I don't even have wi-fi at home. I just use my phone, or sometimes I use a PC at the library.
 
Did Clement of Alexandria know of the Parable of the Fish in the form the Gospel of Thomas preserves?

"And he said, 'The human is like an intelligent fisher, who cast his net into the sea (and) drew it up from the sea filled with small fish. Among them he found a fine large fish. He threw all the small fish back into the sea (and) chose the large fish without difficulty. Whoever has ears to hear should listen.'"
-Gospel of Thomas 8

"Among a great number of small pearls there is one, and in a great catch of fish there is the fine fish."
-Stromateis 1.16.3​
 
On the gnosticism of the 2nd century - Christians were not the only opponents. Many Platonic and Stoic philosophers also vilified gnostic teachings as being 'bad' or 'mob philosophy' it is a populist philosophy - all very attractive with a rich symbolism robbed from every philosophical tradition going, but in the end there are so many barriers between man and God - and the gnostic gods themselves act in the manner of totally vainglorious humans - motivated by ignorance, envy, greed, etc., that the comdemnation of Plato speaking of the Olympic pantheon applies equally in this case - if they are gods, then they ought to act so, and not display the worst facets of human nature.
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It takes plagiarized thieves to know one! Paul's Christ was certainly a de-fleshed version compared to the four gospels claims of foot prints in the sand.

The new age christenings of prior traditions formulated it's own version that can be transposed on every ancient motif it belittles with intellectualism.
 
Note that the 'Scholars Translation' is copyright and should not be posted without explicit permission from the publisher. There is a translation by Thomas O. Lambdin published by the Gnostic Society that I believe is in the public domain. Not sure if I can/should post links, as I'm very new here. I also have a website with a copy of Lambdin's text (along with the Coptic text and the Greek fragments from Papyrus Oxyrhyncus) but linking my own site would be spam, I guess.
 
Alternatively, if I'm wrong about the copyright (and there are many quite 'reputable' sites that have that Scholars' Translation for GoT), then I would appreciate if someone here can link me to the explicit release statement from the publisher/authors, - I would prefer to use that in my collection than the (rather heavily Gnostic) version of Lambdin.
 
Thomas said:
Which translation is it?

Can you supply title/translator/publisher?
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That's one of the 'tricky' points. The original "Scholars' Translation" was published (by Brill/Harper-Collins) in 1977/78; there was a major revision (actually, 3rd edition) published in 1988 by the same and then, in or around 1992/94 there appeared the "Polebridge Press" version (I can find absolutely no other reference to that company). I emailed Brill to ask for clarification (but don't worry - I haven't mentioned this forum). Brill's website has a 'current' version (print only) published in 2006/8. The Brill work is "The Nag Hammadi Library in English" - the original general editor (Robinson) and Gospel of Thomas translator (Meyers) have both since passed away, it seems.
 
Anyway, perhaps more concerning is that the translation posted here has no attribution whatsoever - as with other texts I have looked at. This disappoints me! I have seen so many websites where a text and/or translation of a book is posted without any indication of the source, or the translator/transcriber. This is poor form - it's important to know who we are quoting, if we quote excerpts from those texts.
 
Adrian Mole said:
The original "Scholars' Translation" was published (by Brill/Harper-Collins) in 1977/78; there was a major revision (actually, 3rd edition) published in 1988 ...
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Ooh, there's been a lot of scholarly water under the bridge since then! Why that particular version, as there are quite a few 'scholars' translations' out there?

The Polebridge Press is the publishing arm of the Westar Insititute. You can find them on the Westar website

Adrian Mole said:
I emailed Brill to ask for clarification (but don't worry - I haven't mentioned this forum). Brill's website has a 'current' version (print only) published in 2006/8. The Brill work is "The Nag Hammadi Library in English" - the original general editor (Robinson) and Gospel of Thomas translator (Meyers) have both since passed away, it seems.
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No worry – International copyright law accepts that it's acceptable to quote from a copyright publication on the principle of "fair dealing" or "fair use," – which covers such purposes as discussion, review and research, and so on, provided you cite the source.

Generally, how much you quote and its nature is the general guideline. For example, if you posted a pdf of the entire text, then that would be considered unfair and a breach. But as it's unlikely we'd discuss every logion in order, I don't think we've got anything to worry about.

Further to that, perfectly acceptable 'open source' versions of the GoT are available on line, so there's no real need to rely solely on copyright versions. I like interlinear-online versions, especially the one I've used elsewhere which has links to a Coptic dictionary, so you can dig some way into the translation.
 
Welcome aboard, by the way.

You might like to pop a note on the Introductions Board?
 
Hmm. Brill have confirmed that the work is under copyright. The Polebridge Press version seems to be the text of/from the "Q Thomas Reader" (Marvin Meyer et al.) and is also copyright. So, either the text posted here is the "Scholars' Translation," in which case it has been posted in breach of copyright, or it is open source, in which case it isn't the "Scholars' Translation!"
 
OK ... can't change anything now.

https://www.gospels.net/thomas offers an 'open-source' translation, and citations are acceptable if credited. Indeed, some sites offer the entire Gospel, but credit the source, so I assume Polebridge is not making a big deal of it.

Just about every translation would be, I would have thought, 'a scholar's translation' (note the placing of the apostrophe), and I rather think declaring a book 'the scholars' translation' is just a bit of PR hype.

Recently I've been reading on John the Baptist. Some highly respected scholars argue that John was an Essene. Other highly respected scholars argue that he was not ... not all scholars agree, and when it's a question of nuance and interpretation, such is to be expected.

BTW, Brill alone has published a whole lot of stuff on the Gospel since then, and just about ever one will be a scholar's work, for scholars – publishers like Brill and the Oxford University Press don't tend to publish books in these matters for the general reader, and they are invariably horrendously expensive!
 
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