The Buddha teaches release from life?

[Netti-Netti]

Yes, they bring out the state of the person's mind who is interpreting them.

I was thinking in terms of the value of hiding behind ambiguity in order to avoid being pinned down. A safe place.

 

[seattlegal]

Maybe "feeling/sensation" is referring to feelings associated with conditioned experiences... "He explained that the absence of feeling/sensation itself is happiness."13

"'All phenomena have feeling as their meeting place."

~Mula Sutta​

 

[Netti-Netti]

"'All phenomena have feeling as their meeting place."

~Mula Sutta
​

Unclear. Too ambiguous.

 

[seattlegal]

Unclear. Too ambiguous.

Here is the entire sutta:

"Monks, if those who have gone forth in other sects ask you, 'In what are all phenomena rooted? What is their coming into play? What is their origination? What is their meeting place? What is their presiding state? What is their governing principle? What is their surpassing state? What is their heartwood? Where do they gain a footing? What is their final end?': On being asked this by those who have gone forth in other sects, how would you answer?"
"For us, lord, the teachings have the Blessed One as their root, their guide, & their arbitrator. It would be good if the Blessed One himself would explicate the meaning of this statement. Having heard it from the Blessed One, the monks will remember it."
"In that case, monks, listen & pay close attention. I will speak."
"As you say, lord," the monks responded.
The Blessed One said, "Monks, if those who have gone forth in other sects ask you, 'In what are all phenomena rooted? What is their coming into play? What is their origination? What is their meeting place? What is their presiding state? What is their governing principle? What is their surpassing state? What is their heartwood? Where do they gain a footing? What is their final end?': On being asked this by those who have gone forth in other sects, this is how you should answer them:
"'All phenomena are rooted in desire.1
"'All phenomena come into play through attention.
"'All phenomena have contact as their origination.
"'All phenomena have feeling as their meeting place.
"'All phenomena have concentration as their presiding state.
"'All phenomena have mindfulness as their governing principle.
"'All phenomena have discernment as their surpassing state.
"'All phenomena have release as their heartwood.
"'All phenomena gain their footing in the deathless.
"'All phenomena have Unbinding as their final end.'
"On being asked this by those who have gone forth in other sects, this is how you should answer."​

Is that still too ambiguous?

 

[Netti-Netti]

Here is the entire sutta:

"Monks, if those who have gone forth in other sects ask you, 'In what are all phenomena rooted? What is their coming into play? What is their origination? What is their meeting place? What is their presiding state? What is their governing principle? What is their surpassing state? What is their heartwood? Where do they gain a footing? What is their final end?': On being asked this by those who have gone forth in other sects, how would you answer?"
"For us, lord, the teachings have the Blessed One as their root, their guide, & their arbitrator. It would be good if the Blessed One himself would explicate the meaning of this statement. Having heard it from the Blessed One, the monks will remember it."
"In that case, monks, listen & pay close attention. I will speak."
"As you say, lord," the monks responded.
The Blessed One said, "Monks, if those who have gone forth in other sects ask you, 'In what are all phenomena rooted? What is their coming into play? What is their origination? What is their meeting place? What is their presiding state? What is their governing principle? What is their surpassing state? What is their heartwood? Where do they gain a footing? What is their final end?': On being asked this by those who have gone forth in other sects, this is how you should answer them:
"'All phenomena are rooted in desire.1
"'All phenomena come into play through attention.
"'All phenomena have contact as their origination.
"'All phenomena have feeling as their meeting place.
"'All phenomena have concentration as their presiding state.
"'All phenomena have mindfulness as their governing principle.
"'All phenomena have discernment as their surpassing state.
"'All phenomena have release as their heartwood.
"'All phenomena gain their footing in the deathless.
"'All phenomena have Unbinding as their final end.'
"On being asked this by those who have gone forth in other sects, this is how you should answer."
​

Is that still too ambiguous?

That would depend on what you're trying communicate.

 

[seattlegal]

That would depend on what you're trying communicate.

Do you emphasize the "phenomena," or do you emphasize the "processing of phenomena?" Do you take one approach over the other?

 

[Netti-Netti]

Do you emphasize the "phenomena," or do you emphasize the "processing of phenomena?" Do you take one approach over the other?

Now you've really lost me.

 

[seattlegal]

Now you've really lost me.

Do you choose one way over the other in an escapist manner? Phenomena and the processing of phenomena are interrelated.
(Is that still unclear?)

 

[Netti-Netti]

Do you choose one way over the other in an escapist manner? Phenomena and the processing of phenomena are interrelated.
(Is that still unclear?)

I'm not sure what issue this is relevant to.

 

[seattlegal]

I'm not sure what issue this is relevant to.

"The release from life" as a means of escapism.

 

[Netti-Netti]

"The release from life" as a means of escapism.

ok.

What part of the sutta deals with "The release from life"?

 

[seattlegal]

ok.

What part of the sutta deals with "The release from life"?

"'All phenomena gain their footing in the deathless.

​

{I'm sure many people would take it that way, but not all.}
​

 

[Netti-Netti]

"'All phenomena gain their footing in the deathless."​

I would have thought it was the very next line:
"'All phenomena have Unbinding as their final end." Unbinding = release.

 

[Snoopy]

Clever. Ambiguous terms have some value.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be clever. I just wasn't making any assertion about the treatment of "trash."

s.

 

[Netti-Netti]

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be clever. I just wasn't making any assertion about the treatment of "trash."

Sorry, I thought you were being clever retroactively.

 

[Snoopy]

Sorry, I thought you were being clever retroactively.

I'll have to think about that...

s.

 

[seattlegal]

I would have thought it was the very next line:
"'All phenomena have Unbinding as their final end." Unbinding = release.

So, do you release phenomena via "unbinding," or do you try to escape from phenomena via removing oneself from the place where they "gain their footing?"

 

[Netti-Netti]

So, do you release phenomena via "unbinding," or do you try to escape from phenomena via removing oneself from the place where they "gain their footing?"

You ask the question as though you know the answer.

 

[seattlegal]

You ask the question as though you know the answer.

Actually it's a matter of which way you want to go.

 

[Netti-Netti]

Actually it's a matter of which way you want to go.

I thought there was a "better choice."