seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
I've always wanted to see if others see the same similarities in these two scriptures that I do.
Kalama Sutta
Matthew 7
Kalama Sutta
Matthew 7
Comparing the messages in Matthew 7 and the Kalama Sutta
- Thread starter seattlegal
- Start date
Vajradhara
One of Many
Namaste SG,
interesting OP.
at first blush i don't see much in common with them the teachings are given to wholly different groups of beings though the MAT7 passage doesn't indicate to whom the teachings are given, i presume that they were not a group like the Kalams since i'm unaware of any sort of Brahmin oriented group in the Middle East.
leaving aside the group to whom the teachings are directed i can see some parallels betwixt the teachings in the sense that both of them seem to be advocating a reliance upon self reflection and actions which are in accordance with ones moral and ethical values.
of course such a statement can be fairly said regarding a large number of religions and teachings within them so perhaps this isn't very relevant.
additionally, the Buddha addresses the Kalamas as a group that has a well developed moral and ethical standard further, they have not accepted the Buddhas Dispensation and thus the Buddha does not expound the Dharma to them in the form of the Four Noble Truths and Noble Eightfold Path et al.
the teachings in Mat7 seem to be applicable to a greater group of beings and are given as maxims for beings everywhere to contemplate and put into practice whereas such is not the case with the Kalama Sutta.
further the Kalama Sutta has a phrase which most beings seem to either skip over or apply some understanding of their own and thus, in my view, miss some of the gist of the Sutta. in both cases, the idea of teachings to accept and teachings to reject the adherent is enjoined to consider a group of beings the Buddha designates as "the wise."
rejection:
"These qualities are unskillful; these qualities are blameworthy; these qualities are criticized by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to harm & to suffering' — then you should abandon them."
acceptance:
"These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to welfare & to happiness' — then you should enter & remain in them.
to whom is the Buddha referring with such a statement? throughout the Suttas the Buddha refers to the Sangha as "the Wise" and thus the Buddha instructs the Kalamas to investigate what the Sangha upholds and what the Sangha abandons. though by the Third Turning of the Wheel the Sangha had grown to such a degree that this appelation was given to the senior monks and nuns of the Sangha.
it can fairly argued that the Kalama Sutta offers a blueprint, if you will, of the means by which a group of beings like the Kalamas can generate faith in the Buddhas teaching and is an approach to gaining Right View, the beginning of the Noble Eightfold Path.
another notable difference is that Mat7, unless i'm mistaken, is given to a group of beings that already has accepted Jesus as their Lord and Saviour whereas the Kalama Sutta is given to a group of beings that has not accepted Buddha Shakyamunis teachings of Awakening and Liberation.
it goes without saying (even though i'm saying it) that i'm more conversant with various aspects of the Kalama Sutta than i am with Matthews Gospel so please forgive any mischaracterizations of the Christian text.
metta,
~v
interesting OP.
at first blush i don't see much in common with them the teachings are given to wholly different groups of beings though the MAT7 passage doesn't indicate to whom the teachings are given, i presume that they were not a group like the Kalams since i'm unaware of any sort of Brahmin oriented group in the Middle East.
leaving aside the group to whom the teachings are directed i can see some parallels betwixt the teachings in the sense that both of them seem to be advocating a reliance upon self reflection and actions which are in accordance with ones moral and ethical values.
of course such a statement can be fairly said regarding a large number of religions and teachings within them so perhaps this isn't very relevant.
additionally, the Buddha addresses the Kalamas as a group that has a well developed moral and ethical standard further, they have not accepted the Buddhas Dispensation and thus the Buddha does not expound the Dharma to them in the form of the Four Noble Truths and Noble Eightfold Path et al.
the teachings in Mat7 seem to be applicable to a greater group of beings and are given as maxims for beings everywhere to contemplate and put into practice whereas such is not the case with the Kalama Sutta.
further the Kalama Sutta has a phrase which most beings seem to either skip over or apply some understanding of their own and thus, in my view, miss some of the gist of the Sutta. in both cases, the idea of teachings to accept and teachings to reject the adherent is enjoined to consider a group of beings the Buddha designates as "the wise."
rejection:
"These qualities are unskillful; these qualities are blameworthy; these qualities are criticized by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to harm & to suffering' — then you should abandon them."
acceptance:
"These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to welfare & to happiness' — then you should enter & remain in them.
to whom is the Buddha referring with such a statement? throughout the Suttas the Buddha refers to the Sangha as "the Wise" and thus the Buddha instructs the Kalamas to investigate what the Sangha upholds and what the Sangha abandons. though by the Third Turning of the Wheel the Sangha had grown to such a degree that this appelation was given to the senior monks and nuns of the Sangha.
it can fairly argued that the Kalama Sutta offers a blueprint, if you will, of the means by which a group of beings like the Kalamas can generate faith in the Buddhas teaching and is an approach to gaining Right View, the beginning of the Noble Eightfold Path.
another notable difference is that Mat7, unless i'm mistaken, is given to a group of beings that already has accepted Jesus as their Lord and Saviour whereas the Kalama Sutta is given to a group of beings that has not accepted Buddha Shakyamunis teachings of Awakening and Liberation.
it goes without saying (even though i'm saying it) that i'm more conversant with various aspects of the Kalama Sutta than i am with Matthews Gospel so please forgive any mischaracterizations of the Christian text.
metta,
~v
Netti-Netti
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 2,571
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 0
I was wondering what similarities you seem, SG. I personally see themes in Matthew that have no comparable referent in the Sutta, like the part about judging others.
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
I know this is a very long post (not my usual style,) so bear with me:
Regarding knowing by the fruit, Jesus said:
Matthew 7
Do Not Judge
1 "Do not judge, so that you won't be judged. 2 For with the judgment you use, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. 3 Why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye but don't notice the log in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and look, there's a log in your eye? 5 Hypocrite! First take the log out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. 6 Don't give what is holy to dogs or toss your pearls before pigs, or they will trample them with their feet, turn, and tear you to pieces.
In other words do not be like these folks the Kalamas were asking about:Do Not Judge
1 "Do not judge, so that you won't be judged. 2 For with the judgment you use, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. 3 Why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye but don't notice the log in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and look, there's a log in your eye? 5 Hypocrite! First take the log out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. 6 Don't give what is holy to dogs or toss your pearls before pigs, or they will trample them with their feet, turn, and tear you to pieces.
As they sat there, the Kalamas of Kesaputta said to the Blessed One, "Lord, there are some priests & contemplatives who come to Kesaputta. They expound & glorify their own doctrines, but as for the doctrines of others, they deprecate them, revile them, show contempt for them, & disparage them. And then other priests & contemplatives come to Kesaputta. They expound & glorify their own doctrines, but as for the doctrines of others, they deprecate them, revile them, show contempt for them, & disparage them. They leave us absolutely uncertain & in doubt: Which of these venerable priests & contemplatives are speaking the truth, and which ones are lying?"
Continuing on:
Matthew 7
Keep Asking, Searching, Knocking
7 "Keep asking, and it will be given to you. Keep searching, and you will find. Keep knocking, and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives, and the one who searches finds, and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. 9 What man among you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11 If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good things to those who ask Him! 12 Therefore, whatever you want others to do for you, do also the same for them—this is the Law and the Prophets.
This parallels the Kalama Sutta's treatese on free-inquiry, that although it might seem doubtful, that it assures that there are is a way out of this dilemma:Keep Asking, Searching, Knocking
7 "Keep asking, and it will be given to you. Keep searching, and you will find. Keep knocking, and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives, and the one who searches finds, and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. 9 What man among you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11 If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good things to those who ask Him! 12 Therefore, whatever you want others to do for you, do also the same for them—this is the Law and the Prophets.
Matt 7
15 "Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravaging wolves. 16 You'll recognize them by their fruit. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit. 18 A good tree can't produce bad fruit; neither can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19 Every tree that doesn't produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 So you'll recognize them by their fruit.
You will recognize the truthful ones to be believed by their fruit. The Kalama Sutta spells out the things that lead to bad fruit to look for:15 "Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravaging wolves. 16 You'll recognize them by their fruit. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit. 18 A good tree can't produce bad fruit; neither can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19 Every tree that doesn't produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 So you'll recognize them by their fruit.
reject:
"What do you think, Kalamas? When [greed, aversion, or delusion] arises in a person, does it arise for welfare or for harm?"
"For harm, lord."
"And this [greedy, aversive, or deluded] person, overcome by [greed, aversion, or delusion,] his mind possessed by [greed, aversion, or delusion] kills living beings, takes what is not given, goes after another person's wife, tells lies, and induces others to do likewise, all of which is for long-term harm & suffering."
The Buddha asks if the fruit of greed, aversion and delusion are indeed bad:- greed
- aversion
- delusion
"What do you think, Kalamas? When [greed, aversion, or delusion] arises in a person, does it arise for welfare or for harm?"
"For harm, lord."
"And this [greedy, aversive, or deluded] person, overcome by [greed, aversion, or delusion,] his mind possessed by [greed, aversion, or delusion] kills living beings, takes what is not given, goes after another person's wife, tells lies, and induces others to do likewise, all of which is for long-term harm & suffering."
"So what do you think, Kalamas: Are these qualities skillful or unskillful?"
"Unskillful, lord."
"Blameworthy or blameless?"
"Blameworthy, lord."
"Criticized by the wise or praised by the wise?"
"Criticized by the wise, lord."
"When adopted & carried out, do they lead to harm & to suffering, or not?"
"When adopted & carried out, they lead to harm & to suffering. That is how it appears to us."
Next the Buddha drives home the need to look at the fruit, and not to be distracted away from the fruit:"Unskillful, lord."
"Blameworthy or blameless?"
"Blameworthy, lord."
"Criticized by the wise or praised by the wise?"
"Criticized by the wise, lord."
"When adopted & carried out, do they lead to harm & to suffering, or not?"
"When adopted & carried out, they lead to harm & to suffering. That is how it appears to us."
"So, as I said, Kalamas: 'Don't go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, "This contemplative is our teacher." When you know for yourselves that, "These qualities are unskillful; these qualities are blameworthy; these qualities are criticized by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to harm & to suffering" — then you should abandon them.' Thus was it said. And in reference to this was it said.
All of this in to stress the need to recognize the bad fruit, and not be distracted by other things away from the recognizing the bad fruit. Jesus said much the same thing with different words in verse 15...15 "Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravaging wolves.
...and about how these wolves would be distracted by prophesies and doing powerful works (and possibly by reports, legends, traditions, and other things mentioned by the Buddha that could distract one from bad fruit) in verses 21-2321 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord!' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but [only] the one who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to Me, 'Lord, Lord, didn't we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name? ' 23 Then I will announce to them, 'I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers! '
The Buddha also goes on to show you can be similarly distracted from good fruit, and then names the things leading to good fruit:Now, Kalamas, don't go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, 'This contemplative is our teacher.' When you know for yourselves that, 'These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to welfare & to happiness' — then you should enter & remain in them.
In other words, don't be distracted by these things away from the good fruit! The good fruit is recognized by:- lack of greed
- lack of aversion
- lack of delusion
"What do you think, Kalamas? When lack of [greed, aversion, or delusion] arises in a person, does it arise for welfare or for harm?"
"For welfare, lord."
"And this [ungreedy, unadversive, undeluded] person, not overcome by [greed, aversion, delusion] his mind not possessed by [greed, aversion, delusion], doesn't kill living beings, take what is not given, go after another person's wife, tell lies, or induce others to do likewise, all of which is for long-term welfare & happiness."
"Yes, lord."
And then similarly confirms the good fruits to the Kalamas:"For welfare, lord."
"And this [ungreedy, unadversive, undeluded] person, not overcome by [greed, aversion, delusion] his mind not possessed by [greed, aversion, delusion], doesn't kill living beings, take what is not given, go after another person's wife, tell lies, or induce others to do likewise, all of which is for long-term welfare & happiness."
"Yes, lord."
"So what do you think, Kalamas: Are these qualities skillful or unskillful?"
"Skillful, lord."
"Blameworthy or blameless?"
"Blameless, lord."
"Criticized by the wise or praised by the wise?"
"Praised by the wise, lord."
"When adopted & carried out, do they lead to welfare & to happiness, or not?"
"When adopted & carried out, they lead to welfare & to happiness. That is how it appears to us."
Jesus was more simple and direct in what leads to good fruit in verse 12:"Skillful, lord."
"Blameworthy or blameless?"
"Blameless, lord."
"Criticized by the wise or praised by the wise?"
"Praised by the wise, lord."
"When adopted & carried out, do they lead to welfare & to happiness, or not?"
"When adopted & carried out, they lead to welfare & to happiness. That is how it appears to us."
12 Therefore, whatever you want others to do for you, do also the same for them—this is the Law and the Prophets.
Jesus said that this is the solid foundation that would withstand all circumstances:The Two Foundations
24 "Therefore, everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them will be like a sensible man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain fell, the rivers rose, and the winds blew and pounded that house. Yet it didn't collapse, because its foundation was on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of Mine and doesn't act on them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 The rain fell, the rivers rose, the winds blew and pounded that house, and it collapsed. And its collapse was great!"
The Buddha goes into more detail about how this foundation will withstand all possible circumstances:24 "Therefore, everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them will be like a sensible man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain fell, the rivers rose, and the winds blew and pounded that house. Yet it didn't collapse, because its foundation was on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of Mine and doesn't act on them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 The rain fell, the rivers rose, the winds blew and pounded that house, and it collapsed. And its collapse was great!"
"Now, Kalamas, one who is a disciple of the noble ones — thus devoid of greed, devoid of ill will, undeluded, alert, & resolute — keeps pervading the first direction [the east] — as well as the second direction, the third, & the fourth — with an awareness imbued with good will. Thus he keeps pervading above, below, & all around, everywhere & in every respect the all-encompassing cosmos with an awareness imbued with good will: abundant, expansive, immeasurable, free from hostility, free from ill will.
"He keeps pervading the first direction — as well as the second direction, the third, & the fourth — with an awareness imbued with compassion. Thus he keeps pervading above, below, & all around, everywhere & in every respect the all-encompassing cosmos with an awareness imbued with compassion: abundant, expansive, immeasurable, free from hostility, free from ill will.
"He keeps pervading the first direction — as well as the second direction, the third, & the fourth — with an awareness imbued with appreciation. Thus he keeps pervading above, below, & all around, everywhere & in every respect the all-encompassing cosmos with an awareness imbued with appreciation: abundant, expansive, immeasurable, free from hostility, free from ill will.
"He keeps pervading the first direction — as well as the second direction, the third, & the fourth — with an awareness imbued with equanimity. Thus he keeps pervading above, below, & all around, everywhere & in every respect the all-encompassing cosmos with an awareness imbued with equanimity: abundant, expansive, immeasurable, free from hostility, free from ill will.
"Now, Kalamas, one who is a disciple of the noble ones — his mind thus free from hostility, free from ill will, undefiled, & pure — acquires four assurances in the here-&-now:
"'If there is a world after death, if there is the fruit of actions rightly & wrongly done, then this is the basis by which, with the break-up of the body, after death, I will reappear in a good destination, the heavenly world.' This is the first assurance he acquires.
"'But if there is no world after death, if there is no fruit of actions rightly & wrongly done, then here in the present life I look after myself with ease — free from hostility, free from ill will, free from trouble.' This is the second assurance he acquires.
"'If evil is done through acting, still I have willed no evil for anyone. Having done no evil action, from where will suffering touch me?' This is the third assurance he acquires.
"'But if no evil is done through acting, then I can assume myself pure in both respects.' This is the fourth assurance he acquires.
"One who is a disciple of the noble ones — his mind thus free from hostility, free from ill will, undefiled, & pure — acquires these four assurances in the here-&-now."
"So it is, Blessed One. So it is, O One Well-gone. One who is a disciple of the noble ones — his mind thus free from hostility, free from ill will, undefiled, & pure — acquires four assurances in the here-&-now:
"'If there is a world after death, if there is the fruit of actions rightly & wrongly done, then this is the basis by which, with the break-up of the body, after death, I will reappear in a good destination, the heavenly world.' This is the first assurance he acquires.
"'But if there is no world after death, if there is no fruit of actions rightly & wrongly done, then here in the present life I look after myself with ease — free from hostility, free from ill will, free from trouble.' This is the second assurance he acquires.
"'If evil is done through acting, still I have willed no evil for anyone. Having done no evil action, from where will suffering touch me?' This is the third assurance he acquires.
"'But if no evil is done through acting, then I can assume myself pure in both ways.' This is the fourth assurance he acquires.
"One who is a disciple of the noble ones — his mind thus free from hostility, free from ill will, undefiled, & pure — acquires these four assurances in the here-&-now.
Both found the foundation that would come through all possibilities beneficial and intact."He keeps pervading the first direction — as well as the second direction, the third, & the fourth — with an awareness imbued with compassion. Thus he keeps pervading above, below, & all around, everywhere & in every respect the all-encompassing cosmos with an awareness imbued with compassion: abundant, expansive, immeasurable, free from hostility, free from ill will.
"He keeps pervading the first direction — as well as the second direction, the third, & the fourth — with an awareness imbued with appreciation. Thus he keeps pervading above, below, & all around, everywhere & in every respect the all-encompassing cosmos with an awareness imbued with appreciation: abundant, expansive, immeasurable, free from hostility, free from ill will.
"He keeps pervading the first direction — as well as the second direction, the third, & the fourth — with an awareness imbued with equanimity. Thus he keeps pervading above, below, & all around, everywhere & in every respect the all-encompassing cosmos with an awareness imbued with equanimity: abundant, expansive, immeasurable, free from hostility, free from ill will.
"Now, Kalamas, one who is a disciple of the noble ones — his mind thus free from hostility, free from ill will, undefiled, & pure — acquires four assurances in the here-&-now:
"'If there is a world after death, if there is the fruit of actions rightly & wrongly done, then this is the basis by which, with the break-up of the body, after death, I will reappear in a good destination, the heavenly world.' This is the first assurance he acquires.
"'But if there is no world after death, if there is no fruit of actions rightly & wrongly done, then here in the present life I look after myself with ease — free from hostility, free from ill will, free from trouble.' This is the second assurance he acquires.
"'If evil is done through acting, still I have willed no evil for anyone. Having done no evil action, from where will suffering touch me?' This is the third assurance he acquires.
"'But if no evil is done through acting, then I can assume myself pure in both respects.' This is the fourth assurance he acquires.
"One who is a disciple of the noble ones — his mind thus free from hostility, free from ill will, undefiled, & pure — acquires these four assurances in the here-&-now."
"So it is, Blessed One. So it is, O One Well-gone. One who is a disciple of the noble ones — his mind thus free from hostility, free from ill will, undefiled, & pure — acquires four assurances in the here-&-now:
"'If there is a world after death, if there is the fruit of actions rightly & wrongly done, then this is the basis by which, with the break-up of the body, after death, I will reappear in a good destination, the heavenly world.' This is the first assurance he acquires.
"'But if there is no world after death, if there is no fruit of actions rightly & wrongly done, then here in the present life I look after myself with ease — free from hostility, free from ill will, free from trouble.' This is the second assurance he acquires.
"'If evil is done through acting, still I have willed no evil for anyone. Having done no evil action, from where will suffering touch me?' This is the third assurance he acquires.
"'But if no evil is done through acting, then I can assume myself pure in both ways.' This is the fourth assurance he acquires.
"One who is a disciple of the noble ones — his mind thus free from hostility, free from ill will, undefiled, & pure — acquires these four assurances in the here-&-now.
Regarding knowing by the fruit, Jesus said:
13 "Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it. 14 How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it.
Buddha narrowed the gate by saying:"So, as I said, Kalamas: 'Don't go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, "This contemplative is our teacher." When you know for yourselves that, "These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to welfare & to happiness" — then you should enter & remain in them.' Thus was it said. And in reference to this was it said.
Both crowds listening were astounded by these teachings:"Magnificent, lord! Magnificent! Just as if he were to place upright what was overturned, to reveal what was hidden, to show the way to one who was lost, or to carry a lamp into the dark so that those with eyes could see forms, in the same way has the Blessed One — through many lines of reasoning — made the Dhamma clear. We go to the Blessed One for refuge, to the Dhamma, and to the Sangha of monks. May the Blessed One remember us as lay followers who have gone to him for refuge, from this day forward, for life."
28 When Jesus had finished this sermon, the crowds were astonished at His teaching, 29 because He was teaching them like one who had authority, and not like their scribes.
Did the scribes distract away from the fruit by reports, legends, traditions, etc?
Netti-Netti
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 2,571
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 0
Thank you, SG. I know how much time it takes - plus you risk someone responding, which could mean having to reply to that.
Yes. The crowd listening to the Buddha were quite taken with his reasoning skills and ability to make the Dhamma clear. The crowd listening to Jesus was impressed "because He was teaching them like one who had authority, and not like their scribes." I don't quite know what to make of that since there is no statement about how the scribes had been teaching. Maybe they had been relying on reports, legends, traditions, etc? Anyway, I suspect the idea is to render Jesus' special authority.
The main difference I see is that Matthew 7 is frame of reference. Matthew has something to say about Jesus' authority whereas the Sutta is a classic statement about the importance of going for the proverbial "proof-in-the pudding: "When you know for yourselves that these qualities are unskillful; these qualities are blameworthy; these qualities are criticized by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to harm & to suffering' — then you should abandon them." I'd say that's probably fairly typical in the sense that it endorses a practical view on ethics and morality, i.e., that our lives can be untroubled ("free from hostility, free from ill will") and effective (skillful) if led in agreement with a personal understanding of how delusion, greed, and aggression can adversely affect our lives.
I think the Buddhist practical morality is really very different from the type of ethics and morality Matthew is talking about, which revolves around a faith based commitment. From Matthew we gather that morality and ethics are important because of the Heavenly Father. The reward for right action relates to a supreme moral authority, namely, G-d Himself. One can hope to enter the kingdom of heaven as a result of doing the Father's Divine Will.
As you pointed out, the Sutta mentions that the Kalamas were having a hard time reconciling differences in the teachings and doctrines espoused by "venerable priests & contemplatives. The Kalamas had become uncertain: "They leave us absolutely uncertain & in doubt: Which of these venerable priests & contemplatives are speaking the truth, and which ones are lying?" The Buddha assures the Kalamas that there's a way out of the dilemma. Specifically, as we saw earlier, the Buddha's suggested solution to the state of ideological limbo is to let you own experience be a source of proof. This authentication process is personal, practical, and immediate and does not refer to a divine standard or source.
Matthew offers a very different way out of the dilemma: In Matthew 7:7-12 we find a very straightforward statement about G-d dependence. Matthew encourages us to seek spiritual nourishment and point out where we should be looking. The Heavenly Father can be relied upon to "give good things to those who ask Him." This is a future-oriented view of the benefits of a personal relationship with the Father, a looking outside oneself. The conditional aspect of the rewards of moral/ethical conduct are less clear here than in Matthew 7:21, but it does seem to be part of a larger New Covenant teaching. The rewards of right action are predicated on obedience and fidelity toward the L-rd. That's missing entirely from the Buddhist view.
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
Hi Netti-Netti.
There is a pretty good conversation regarding the differences between the two paradigms in this thread:
http://www.interfaith.org/forum/bono-u2-on-grace-and-10162.html
(Thomas even mentions the restoring of the first foundation--or "making straight the ways of the Lord.")
Jesus said to love God with all your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself. The Dhammapada says that hatred does not cease by hatred, but hatred ceases by love.
There is a pretty good conversation regarding the differences between the two paradigms in this thread:
http://www.interfaith.org/forum/bono-u2-on-grace-and-10162.html
(Thomas even mentions the restoring of the first foundation--or "making straight the ways of the Lord.")
Jesus said to love God with all your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself. The Dhammapada says that hatred does not cease by hatred, but hatred ceases by love.
Netti-Netti
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 2,571
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 0
To me these are very different things. The Dhammapada specifies a way to diffuse a situation by reacting to another's aggression with compassion instead of with aggression. I don't think that's the same as actually loving the other person in any full sense of the word. It is is merely accepting the challenge to refine intention in that circumstance and avoid exacerbating it.
N
Nick_A
Guest
Well one thing they have in common is the concern for the effect of "experts" and IMO the danger they present is all these modern spiritual teachings is really quite serious.
From the Kalama Sutta:
From Matthew 7:
How can we avoid the damaging effects of "experts" since the way is not so easy? They have so much appeal to so many and write such inspirational books?
Well in Christianity the answer is to "Know thyself" and the same is implied in the sutta: "'This contemplative is our teacher.' When you know for yourselves that....."
Of course it is easier said then done and far more simple to listen to "experts" and continue turning in circles. But fortunately there is a minority willing to be real at the expense of their false pride and vanity for the sake of the "pearl of great price."
From the Kalama Sutta:
From Matthew 7:
How can we avoid the damaging effects of "experts" since the way is not so easy? They have so much appeal to so many and write such inspirational books?
Well in Christianity the answer is to "Know thyself" and the same is implied in the sutta: "'This contemplative is our teacher.' When you know for yourselves that....."
Of course it is easier said then done and far more simple to listen to "experts" and continue turning in circles. But fortunately there is a minority willing to be real at the expense of their false pride and vanity for the sake of the "pearl of great price."