The genealogy of Jesus I ( Matt 1: 1-17)

[soleil10]

Why was Jesus’s family tree described in such a detail in the bible? It reveals God’s effort to create an unstained lineage out of which Jesus could be born.
The struggle of Esau and Jacob, the special situation of Joseph’s mother Rachel, and the story of Tamar are all significant.
The Bible records some things that seem to be irregular, but it was necessary so that the satanic lineage could be liquidated, allowing a new sinless Adam to emerge.
For a son to be born on earth, with this seed of God’s love and life, there first must exist a mother. And the mother cannot give birth to this child in a conventional way. The process of the fall had to be restored through a reverse formula.
All the cooperation between mothers and sons was a providential preparation and a condition for the Son of God to be born with the seed of new life, free from satanic accusation

 

[Bishadi]

Why was Jesus’s family tree described in such a detail in the bible? It reveals God’s effort to create an unstained lineage out of which Jesus could be born.

did you read the 1-18?

1A roll of the birth of Jesus Christ, son of David, son of Abraham.


2Abraham begat Isaac, and Isaac begat Jacob, and Jacob begat Judah and his brethren,

3and Judah begat Pharez and Zarah of Tamar, and Pharez begat Hezron, and Hezron begat Ram,

4and Ram begat Amminadab, and Amminadab begat Nahshon, and Nahshon begat Salmon,

5and Salmon begat Boaz of Rahab, and Boaz begat Obed of Ruth, and Obed begat Jesse,

6and Jesse begat David the king. And David the king begat Solomon, of her [who had been] Uriah's,

7and Solomon begat Rehoboam, and Rehoboam begat Abijah, and Abijah begat Asa,

8and Asa begat Jehoshaphat, and Jehoshaphat begat Joram, and Joram begat Uzziah,

9and Uzziah begat Jotham, and Jotham begat Ahaz, and Ahaz begat Hezekiah,

10and Hezekiah begat Manasseh, and Manasseh begat Amon, and Amon begat Josiah,

11and Josiah begat Jeconiah and his brethren, at the Babylonian removal.

12And after the Babylonian removal, Jeconiah begat Shealtiel, and Shealtiel begat Zerubbabel,

13and Zerubbabel begat Abiud, and Abiud begat Eliakim, and Eliakim begat Azor,

14and Azor begat Sadok, and Sadok begat Achim, and Achim begat Eliud,

15and Eliud begat Eleazar, and Eleazar begat Matthan, and Matthan begat Jacob,

16and Jacob begat Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was begotten Jesus, who is named Christ.

17All the generations, therefore, from Abraham unto David [are] fourteen generations, and from David unto the Babylonian removal fourteen generations, and from the Babylonian removal unto the Christ, fourteen generations.
18And of Jesus Christ, the birth was thus: For his mother Mary having been betrothed to Joseph, before their coming together she was found to have conceived from the Holy Spirit,


Did anyone notice what all that means?

Matthew is conveying Jesus' lineage to David, to fulfill the prophecies of Torah.

But Matthew states Joseph never knew Mary

So all the lineage listing is moot!

per Matthew, Joseph is not Jesus' dad. So within these few lines any could see that Jesus may NOT be of Davids lineage.

they made a big oooops, upon this conveyance.

you would think this would have been noticed years ago

 

[wil]

Namaste Soleil,

So you are a moonie? Welcome aboard, we appreciate a variety of views however you are currently walking a fine line.

I was contemplating the plethora of threads you've been starting. Usually around here this is the sign of a 'cut and paster' trying to educate us lost souls rather than someone who has come here for discussion.

Please read the code of conduct. And insure you foot note your postings when you borrow so liberally from others words (unless they've been plagiarizing you)

The Life and Mission of Jesus Christ - Sun Myung Moon - Chapter One - Jesus' Birth And Youth

Why was Jesus' family tree described in such detail in the Bible? It reveals God's effort to create an unstained lineage out of which Jesus could be born. The struggle of Esau and Jacob, the special situation of Joseph's mother Rachel, and [the story of] Tamar are all significant. The Bible records some things that seem to be irregular, but it was necessary so that the satanic lineage could be liquidated, allowing a new ancestor to emerge.

 

[Thomas]

But Matthew states Joseph never knew Mary

So all the lineage listing is moot!

per Matthew, Joseph is not Jesus' dad. So within these few lines any could see that Jesus may NOT be of Davids lineage.

they made a big oooops, upon this conveyance.

you would think this would have been noticed years ago

Yes you would, wouldn't you ... I mean, there's not the slightest chance, I suppose, that it might enter your head that the question had been asked, and answered, years ago? That your ignorance of Jewish Law is the bigger 'oooops'?

Two things: You don't suppose, reading and paying attention, to the text of Matthew 1:16, that when the scribe says:
"And Jacob begot Joseph the husband of Mary... "
That it might imply the social norm by which the husband is usually understood to be aware of the existence of his wife, and vice versa?

... and that the change in emphasis of the text:
"... of whom (Mary) was born Jesus, who is called Christ."
was in any way pointed, and meant to be significant? To indicate to the reader that something out of the ordinary is being alluded to?

I'm sorry for the blunt and rather sarcastic tone ... but please do not treat Christians like idiots, we've got a pretty impressive rosta of thinkers down through the years, and to assume otherwise does nothing but signal your total ignorance of the very thing you assume to know beyond all others' comprehension.

Thomas

 

[Bishadi]

Yes you would, wouldn't you ... I mean, there's not the slightest chance, I suppose, that it might enter your head that the question had been asked, and answered, years ago? That your ignorance of Jewish Law is the bigger 'oooops'?

What does Jewish law have to do with a bloodline?

Two things: You don't suppose, reading and paying attention, to the text of Matthew 1:16, that when the scribe says:
"And Jacob begot Joseph the husband of Mary... "

I will agree, Mary, a women, gave birth to a man (not a god)

but that is not the issue

the problem is Matthew was representing Jesus' BLOODLINE to David

and if Joseph didn't conceive Jesus, then Jesus is not of the blood of David.

That it might imply the social norm by which the husband is usually understood to be aware of the existence of his wife, and vice versa?

What is the point? That Jesus was born based on the compassion of Joseph and Mary and Emmanual would not even be spoken about if Joseph had not been a quality human being (going against the laws of the religion to do what is right)

I kind of like Joseph for that; how about you? DO you have the ability to go against your beliefs for the good of others?

... and that the change in emphasis of the text:
"... of whom (Mary) was born Jesus, who is called Christ."

that addition is from nicene..... Emmanuel was the name in the OT and why the addition to christianity. Jesus was not considered the christ until well after his death.

I'm sorry for the blunt and rather sarcastic tone ... but please do not treat Christians like idiots,

not christians, just deceivers... as anyone can be evil and cause ill regard based on their own beliefs. Heck see israel for that if you like

we've got a pretty impressive rosta of thinkers down through the years,

I know, i love my family lineage such as Roger Bacon. A friar, who spent over a decade under house arrest for suggesting the light of truth will come from the understanding of 'light' and defined mathematically..................

me a bonified bacon bit

but then again ever notice how long it took the vatican to give gallileo his pardon............

are you ready to pardon darwin?

all that intellect, and yet if the religions of the west and inquisitions had not burned libraries and people at the stake for being smarter than them, we could all be vacationing on the moon by now

and to assume otherwise does nothing but signal your total ignorance of the very thing you assume to know beyond all others' comprehension.

Thomas

can you define life upon mass that is pure to nature and God?

can you offer any person the ability to know life pure to existence and be capable of both responsibility and how to live forever simply by choice?

If not, you perhaps may wish to simply shut up when arguing with one who can?

 

[soleil10]

There is a well researched book that cover the issue of who is Jesus's father. It is call " the virgin and the priest " written by Mark Gibbs.

There is a website www.thevirignandthepriest.com
Here is the table of content

Preface
Introduction
1. Supremacy of Blood​

The Caste system, Samaritans, Jesus' father, Genealogies, Virgin Birth, Son of God? Primacy of Doctrine, Matthew and Luke - Jewish Scribes.

2. The Family of the New Abraham
The Nativities, The Visitation, Mary's pregnancy, Mary, Hannah and Ruth, Canticles of Praise, Family of the New Abraham, Holy Births
3. Zacharias and Mary​

Protovangelium of James, The Koran, Heretical Art, Presentation at the Temple, The Pine Cone, Death of Zacharias, Pharisees

4. Angel of the Lord​

The Four Matriarchs, Pattern of Conception, Angel of the Lord, Priests and Angels, Zacharias as Angel, Gabriel, The Peacock Angel, Miscegenation, Son of Barachiah?

5. The Kingmakers​

Roots of Division, Separate Traditions, Menahem, The Myth of Judah, The Wise Men, Payment to Mary, Massacre of the Infants, The Kingbreakers, Planned Parenthood, Prophesy

6. Sibling Rivalry​

Blood Brothers, Older versus Younger, Jesus versus John, The Prodigal Son, Jesus and Jacob, Famous Last Words, Calling Elijah, Elijah the Prophet, John the Elijah

7. Dead Sea Scrolls​

Essenes, Zealots, Dating the Scrolls, The Habakkuk Commentary, Twin Messiahs, Teacher of Righteousness, Wicked Priest, From John to Jesus, Herodians, The Damascus Document, The New Testament and Qumran

8. Legacy of Messianic Conflict​

Disciples of John, Simon Magus, Dositheus, Mandaeans, Gnostic Religions of the Middle East, Islam, Sabians, The Knights Templar, The Holy Grail, Agnus Dei, Bernard of Clairvaux, The Beehive, The Albigensian Crusade, Freemasons, Oliver Cromwell, Johannites in America

Conclusion​

 

[Bishadi]

There is a well researched book that cover the issue of who is Jesus's father. It is call " the virgin and the priest " written by Mark Gibbs.

You are not suggesting 'Mary and the Priest' concieved, are you?

Or are you suggesting, that the OPINION of Gibbs, will share how David's blood, miraculously jumped into Jesus' veins, post cannon.......once again?

If the bible is the word of God, as sold, then i ask clearly; why would any further additions be needed to establish a setting of logic except to build another fib to fix the original error?

I mean Darwin and even Isaac Newton offered material POST cannon and few religious folk care to observe the works as credible but you think Gibbs can assist in defining how Jesus' bloodline is of David, when there is really nothing that can change what is written in Matthew.

The only possibility would be that Mary has her lineage shared and then that would be quite suspect as in them days, women were rather a possession and often sold, rather than given credentials.

It seems you are trying to allow an 'evolution' to the works of the bible but probably hate Darwin (and in 'fact' the word evolution is no where in the book Origins of Species until the 6th edition (if i remember right) and Darwin was already gone)

 

[soleil10]

Bidashi,

The book explained that Zachariah (the high priest) was Jesus' father.

Here is how the book is being promoted ?

For the first time ever in print, The Virgin and The Priest unravels the Infancy Narratives of the New Testament to reveal how they were compiled to protect the truth of Jesus' parentage from those deemed incapable of receiving it.

An ancient formula, explaining why it was necessary for "holy births" in the messianic lineage to result from questionable sexual relationships, was insinuated into the gospel narratives. These trysts of the Old Testament heroes were required to purify Jesus' ancestry, and allow for his genetic inheritance to be "sinless." Far from advocating a miraculous birth, the New Testament reveals the name of Jesus' biological father.

This information is long overdue but is absolutely vital for us to understand the truth of what really happened two thousand years ago.

Although the Church had its reasons for discarding the truth in favor of a theological construction, much of the truth of Jesus' life was known to secret society elites, such as the Knights Templar, who belonged to an ancient tradition that included the Qumran Essenes. Initiates acknowledged John the Baptist, and not Jesus, as the true Christ.

The real story of Jesus and John the Baptist - one of bitter sibling rivalry - was explained in The Parable of The Prodigal Son, and well documented in the Dead Sea Scrolls, using pseudonyms for the protagonists.It was also alluded to in apocryphal gospels, in the literature of early Church Fathers, the Koran, and was depicted in Renaissance masterpieces. It can no longer be ignored.

 

[Bishadi]

Bidashi,

The book explained that Zachariah (the high priest) was Jesus' father.

guess i haven't heard all the 'big ones' yet....

Here is how the book is being promoted ?

For the first time ever in print, The Virgin and The Priest unravels the Infancy Narratives of the New Testament to reveal how they were compiled to protect the truth of Jesus' parentage from those deemed incapable of receiving it.

Who is it that received the truth, you are professing? Show me the OLD documentation.

An ancient formula, explaining why it was necessary for "holy births" in the messianic lineage

what necessity?

God does not have needs. Why would necessity exist?

Must be to make people happy.

to result from questionable sexual relationships, was insinuated into the gospel narratives.

sounds to me you learned the 'insinuated' questions as they contradict the biblical accounts.

History is history and you can't change it because of post 'insinuated' moralities........

With NO reading of that book, can you provide evidence of Mary and the priest? (disclosure: no posting polaroids; as it seems you know no bounds)

These trysts of the Old Testament heroes were required to purify Jesus' ancestry, and allow for his genetic inheritance to be "sinless."

do you not see the crap in creating a new history to 'purify' the questions?

Where is the recorded documentation that can combine these three people, Zach, Mary and Joseph, in time and event?

It seems this is another attempt at creating another tangent (divide)between religious beliefs.

Far from advocating a miraculous birth, the New Testament reveals the name of Jesus' biological father.

This information is long overdue but is absolutely vital for us to understand the truth of what really happened two thousand years ago.

so now you must share the evidence, scrolls etc.. from the period, not gibbs........ share recorded documentation on Mary w/Zach and then to Joseph, who is said to have had no clue about the conception.

we all can see YOU LIKE GIBBS.... but it would best to be a little scientific/honest when observing bloodline lineages and to suggest the tangent you are presenting; i would like to see what you have that can be observed (although i am pretty certain this whole issue is just BS, but let's see what ya have)

PS .......... make sure it is in the old language, i will do my own translations without people adding (like the addition of the english word 'virgin' to definition of almah)