Definition of the Trinity ?

[soleil10]

I believe God is both male and female. He is our Heavenly Parent. Originally, if Adam and Eve had grown to perfection and become one as a male and a female in an heavenly marriage with God as their center, they would have form the first trinity on earth

Since Adam and Eve fell, that original trinity failed. God sent Jesus as a second Adam in order to become our new sinless ancestor.
Since, he was rejected, could not marry and was killed, Christianity explains the trinity as a spiritual trinity being God, Jesus (masculine spirit) and the Holy spirit (a comforting spirit, a female spirit).

We are reborn spiritually through Jesus and the Holy spirit.

This is what I believe the triune God is. I do not see it as a mystery.

What is your definition of the Trinity ?

 

[wil]

I believe God is both male and female. He is our Heavenly Parent. Originally, if Adam and Eve had grown to perfection and become one as a male and a female in an heavenly marriage with God as their center, they would have form the first trinity on earth

Since Adam and Eve fell, that original trinity failed. God sent Jesus as a second Adam in order to become our new sinless ancestor.
Since, he was rejected, could not marry and was killed, Christianity explains the trinity as a spiritual trinity being God, Jesus (masculine spirit) and the Holy spirit (a comforting spirit, a female spirit).

We are reborn spiritually through Jesus and the Holy spirit.

This is what I believe the triune God is. I do not see it as a mystery.

What is your definition of the Trinity ?

I've asked before, and prior to being able to enter into discussions in this regard, I need to know.

Do you believe the story of Genesis in the Garden and Creation and making Adam out of earth and Eve out of a rib and the serpent talking to them and then losing its legs all to be a true and literal fact?

Having recently read 'The Shack' I think there is some nice mythology describing the trinity.

 

[soleil10]

I've asked before, and prior to being able to enter into discussions in this regard, I need to know.

Do you believe the story of Genesis in the Garden and Creation and making Adam out of earth and Eve out of a rib and the serpent talking to them and then losing its legs all to be a true and literal fact?

Having recently read 'The Shack' I think there is some nice mythology describing the trinity.

I believe in Genesis. I believe in two original ancestors, Adam and Eve. I believe they could communicate with Lucifer (a spiritual being).
I think the serpent, the apple, the two trees are symbolic images of something else).

How does the Shack describe the trinity ?

 

[Thomas]

I do not see it as a mystery.

Then you have decided you know all there is to know.

Thomas

 

[soleil10]

Then you have decided you know all there is to know.Thomas

That is not what I said.

I just wrote that based on my understanding, I did not believe the Trinity was a mystery. I do learn every day.

I understand that for many, part of their faith is to believe in the mystery of the Trinity.

I was taught that way for many years. I was not satisfied.

Please do not hold it against me.

 

[Thomas]

That is not what I said.

I'm afraid it is.

A mystery in any field indicates a body of knowledge about something, with the implication that there is more yet to be known. You seem to have decided there is nothing more to be known.

In every field, what is desired is an open mind that allows there might be more to something than 'meets the eye', as the saying goes.

I just wrote that based on my understanding, I did not believe the Trinity was a mystery. I do learn every day.

I suggest you're assuming a secular understanding of the term 'mystery', rather than a Christian one. Either way, however, it seems you have decided there's nothing more to be understood.

I understand that for many, part of their faith is to believe in the mystery of the Trinity.

Well the two go hand in hand ... an orthodox belief in the Trinity takes one into the very heart of God, the more one seeks, the more the mystery unfolds ... the more the knowing, the more the wonder.

The Trinity, being a revealed insight into the Essence of God, is inexhaustible as a study. To say otherwise is to say one knows everything that God knows.

Same with Scripture. Anyone who says they understand all that there is to be understood of Scripture has failed to see what Scripture is.

I was taught that way for many years. I was not satisfied.

Poor teachers then, or poor student.

Please do not hold it against me.

I don't, but please do not be so quick to close the door to further knowledge, or even a different order of knowing. Some things don't come easily, and some require a certain maturity to understand. Youth is often impatient. Often the truth does not surrender itself easily.

But please do not hold it against us, when perhaps we see more than you do, or that we choose to continue on a quest that you seem to have abandoned, unless you're telling us you are the measure of all that can be known.

Thomas

 

[wil]

I believe in Genesis. I believe in two original ancestors, Adam and Eve. I believe they could communicate with Lucifer (a spiritual being).
I think the serpent, the apple, the two trees are symbolic images of something else).

How does the Shack describe the trinity ?

I'll not debate Genesis with you then as we are so far apart. But in order to tell you how the Shack describes the trinity I'd have to relate most of the book. The Shack creates a mythical situation and puts skins on the Father, Son and Holy Ghost so the main character can interact and learn from each, and learn their relationship to each other...it is quite the story. It isn't a litterary masterpiece, but is quite compelling and an easy read.

 

[soleil10]

I'm afraid it is.
A mystery in any field indicates a body of knowledge about something, with the implication that there is more yet to be known. You seem to have decided there is nothing more to be known.

In every field, what is desired is an open mind that allows there might be more to something than 'meets the eye', as the saying goes.

I have shared an explanation that I believe in and asked others on IF what there understanding was on the same subject[/quote]

I suggest you're assuming a secular understanding of the term 'mystery', rather than a Christian one.

Ok, please explain what you mean by your Christian definition of mystery ?

Either way, however, it seems you have decided there's nothing more to be understood.

It is true that I believe in what I said for a long time now and I have no heard a better explantion[/quote]

Well the two go hand in hand ... an orthodox belief in the Trinity takes one into the very heart of God, the more one seeks, the more the mystery unfolds ... the more the knowing, the more the wonder.

The explanation I proposed goes deeply in the heart of God and reveals so much of His purpose and His will as well as the tragedy humanity went through

The Trinity, being a revealed insight into the Essence of God, is inexhaustible as a study. To say otherwise is to say one knows everything that God knows.

I do make effort to learn more everyday about God. It challenges me to overcome my personal shortcomings.
When it comes to the mystery of the Trinity, I feel that some people have the attitude of worshiping the mystery.
The worship of the mystery has become part of their faith.
(I hope you understand what I mean by the word worship in this context)

Same with Scripture. Anyone who says they understand all that there is to be understood of Scripture has failed to see what Scripture is.

Did you meet that person ?

Poor teachers then, or poor student.

???

I don't, but please do not be so quick to close the door to further knowledge, or even a different order of knowing. Some things don't come easily, and some require a certain maturity to understand. Youth is often impatient. Often the truth does not surrender itself easily.

But please do not hold it against us, when perhaps we see more than you do, or that we choose to continue on a quest that you seem to have abandoned, unless you're telling us you are the measure of all that can be known.Thomas

I have an open door policy when it comes to spiritual learning. That is who I am.

If you see more than I on a subject, I have no problem to learn from others.
I have the curious, investigative and exploratory type of personality. I try to challenge the walls I may have build around me and I try to go where my fears are because it is usually where growth takes place.

One thing I like to avoid is to make the quest itself the destination because there is a lot of that going on.

My original post was not about me. I am sorry if it came out that way.

 

[soleil10]

I'll not debate Genesis with you then as we are so far apart. But in order to tell you how the Shack describes the trinity I'd have to relate most of the book. The Shack creates a mythical situation and puts skins on the Father, Son and Holy Ghost so the main character can interact and learn from each, and learn their relationship to each other...it is quite the story. It isn't a litterary masterpiece, but is quite compelling and an easy read.

Wil,Thanks for sharing about this book. I will add it to my list of "to read book". I will get the audio version and listen to it in my car.

 

[wil]

Wil,Thanks for sharing about this book. I will add it to my list of "to read book". I will get the audio version and listen to it in my car.

ah, another "roadz scholar"

 

[soleil10]

ah, another "roadz scholar"

Ok, I just bought it. I have hard time to read fiction so audio is better. It is like story telling.

 

[Thomas]

I have shared an explanation that I believe in and asked others on IF what there understanding was on the same subject

Me culpa, probably a bit too quick off the mark at my end. Excuse me if I seem aggressive, but I am continually being (mis)informed of what the Trinity is or means by those who haven't the first inkling of what they're talking about.

In short, the Trinity is like the 'Irish Question' in history, to which someone famously said, "If you think you know the answer, you really don't understand the problem."

One huge clue I'll give you:
There is no doctrinal definition of the Trinity in Catholic dogma
Why? Because whatever we think we know of the Holy Trinity, that is not what it is, it is what it is like — it is analogous, but it is not definitive.

A tutor of mine once said: "You can't talk for more than 30 seconds about the Trinity without drifting into heresy," which seemed a bit of a wild-card statement, so we called him out on that point, and a riotous morning followed, each of us having a go, like a TV gong show: "Name that Heresy". He was right, you can know it, and by God's good grace you might even have sensed it ... you can talk about it, but you can't say what it is ...

The Doctrine of the Trinity is a traditional Christian doctrine, although its content has become increasingly more opaque in later years. Today I doubt any but the most scholarly non-Christian (and precious few practising Christians) have any grasp beyond a superficial idea of what the doctrine entails.

It is a prime example of Christian esoterism. Again, as a tutor of mine said, "All theology is Trinity-shaped, because the Cosmos is Trinity-shaped, because the Trinity is the source of everything. All creation rises in the Trinity, it is the ground of being of all things."

Ok, please explain what you mean by your Christian definition of mystery ?

Thank you for a brilliant question! The answer will of necessity be long, for accuracy's sake, so ifyou will allow, I'll start a new thread, but I won't be done today ... please bear with me.

When it comes to the mystery of the Trinity, I feel that some people have the attitude of worshiping the mystery. The worship of the mystery has become part of their faith.

That's a very technical point, but I can see, and in some ways agree, if the Trinity then becomes like a meaningless fetish — something everyone whispers about, but the meaning of which has long been lost.

On the other hand, some things, like God, are beyond human comprehension. And people accept an enormous amount on faith. Most people who flick a light switch have no idea of the science involved. There is a wide assumption that 'faith' applies only to religion, and not to anything else. This is a mistake. I ride my motorbike to work every day, with only a vague grasp of how the thing starts and stops, and what keeps it upright ...

... I heard a scientist talking about thermodynamics and realised I hadn't got the slightest idea about what "heat" is ... I always assumed it was when things got warm, I know it when I feel it, I and see its effects, and I can make pretty good guesses at what will happen if I apply heat to this or that, but do I really understand it? I think not ...

As someone said, if we didn't have faith in science, we'd be too frightened to get out of bed in the morning ...

I have an open door policy when it comes to spiritual learning. That is who I am.

OK, that's good. Then you must allow that some truths transcend our ability to comprehend them in their entirety? That we can apprehend them, but we can never fully plumb their depths.

The only way you can do that, as we would say, is enter into the Mystery.

Without Trinity, or something like it (henad and monad, etc,) the gulf between creature and Creator remains absolute. Cosmological triunes, Isis-Osiris-Horus etc., are cosmological and don't have the metaphysical reach.

Thomas

 

[soleil10]

Me culpa, probably a bit too quick off the mark at my end. Excuse me if I seem aggressive, but I am continually being (mis)informed of what the Trinity is or means by those who haven't the first inkling of what they're talking about.

I do understand. It happens to me too. I already know that you are sincere and try to practice what you believe. Do not worry at all

In short, the Trinity is like the 'Irish Question' in history, to which someone famously said, "If you think you know the answer, you really don't understand the problem."

One huge clue I'll give you:
There is no doctrinal definition of the Trinity in Catholic dogma
Why? Because whatever we think we know of the Holy Trinity, that is not what it is, it is what it is like — it is analogous, but it is not definitive.

I think this makes it difficult to promote a religious belief especially in the 21st century where science is more developed.

A tutor of mine once said: "You can't talk for more than 30 seconds about the Trinity without drifting into heresy," which seemed a bit of a wild-card statement, so we called him out on that point, and a riotous morning followed, each of us having a go, like a TV gong show: "Name that Heresy". He was right, you can know it, and by God's good grace you might even have sensed it ... you can talk about it, but you can't say what it is ...

Same point as above

The Doctrine of the Trinity is a traditional Christian doctrine, although its content has become increasingly more opaque in later years. Today I doubt any but the most scholarly non-Christian (and precious few practising Christians) have any grasp beyond a superficial idea of what the doctrine entails.

Same point as above

It is a prime example of Christian esoterism.

Same point as above

Again, as a tutor of mine said, "All theology is Trinity-shaped, because the Cosmos is Trinity-shaped, because the Trinity is the source of everything. All creation rises in the Trinity, it is the ground of being of all things."

I totally agree the Holy Trinity is the starting point. It becomes complete with an additional 4th component. Based on what I shared of my understanding.
God is harmonious union (masculine and feminine). He divides Himself in Man and woman (the 3 together form the trinity) and then it reunites in the new union as children.

The three becomes four starting from the Union (God), then division and finally union. That is why the family unit is the basis of all, including Heaven.

The first original family centered on God did not actualize. It became centered on Satan and multiplied.

In the same way through the Union of the Trinity -God, Jesus (Masculine), the Holy spirit (feminine) we are reborn spiritually but not physically. The original sin (satan's blood lineage is still in us). That is why the ceremony of Baptism is needed.

The whole purpose of creation and the purpose of the history of restoration (after the fall) is to create this original God centered family and expand from there. Shall I call it (quatrinity)?

That is why Jesus came as the new original ancestor to establish the Kingdom of Heaven on earth.

Thank you for a brilliant question! The answer will of necessity be long, for accuracy's sake, so ifyou will allow, I'll start a new thread, but I won't be done today ... please bear with me.

Of course

That's a very technical point, but I can see, and in some ways agree, if the Trinity then becomes like a meaningless fetish — something everyone whispers about, but the meaning of which has long been lost.

After 6000 years of Biblical history, it is very sad that it is still not clear.

As someone said, if we didn't have faith in science, we'd be too frightened to get out of bed in the morning ...

You must allow that some truths transcend our ability to comprehend them in their entirety? That we can apprehend them, but we can never fully plumb their depths.

The only way you can do that, as we would say, is enter into the Mystery. Thomas

Ok, but this language has been used too often to tell people," do not try to understand, your are not supposed to understand, there is no explanation to it etc...." Trust your superiors, jsut follow.

We end up with space out believers and so many people have given up on religion because of endless mysteries and wild stories. Even wars are fought because of nonsense.
Do you believe on Jesus coming back on a cloud and certain Xstians being elevated into the air.

Sorry, I should make a new thread on this

 

[Dondi]

I understand that for many, part of their faith is to believe in the mystery of the Trinity

Well the two go hand in hand ... an orthodox belief in the Trinity takes one into the very heart of God, the more one seeks, the more the mystery unfolds ... the more the knowing, the more the wonder.

The Trinity, being a revealed insight into the Essence of God, is inexhaustible as a study. To say otherwise is to say one knows everything that God knows.

I dunno. I think if we approach the subject as if the Trinity is an unsolvable mystery we end up with an imprecise view of God. How are we to know how we are to relate to God? To treat the Trinity as a mystery almost seems like a cop out to smooth over the apparent contradiction of the Shema ("Hear O Israel, the Lord our God is One"). Many unlearned are quick to accuse trinitarian Christians of worshipping three gods, which we very well know that is not the case. However, even for the typical Christian, the idea of three-in-one seems to be beyond reach of our grasp.

In the first place, the concept of the Trinity is implicit in scripture. You have to pick up hints of it from scattered teachings of Christ and his followers. Nor is it a doctrine that seems apparently essential to salvation, else I would think whenever salvation comes up in scripture the doctrine would have likewise been mentioned. Nonetheless, I believe a proper understanding of Trinity is essential in our ongoing relationship with God.

I, myself have devised a view that attempts to consolidate the idea of three Persons forming one God. This is an ongoing process for me, for the difficulty lies in the relationships between within the Three Persons that are still not clear.

But here is my explanation:

1) Since God is the Eternal Spirit, He abides outside of time and space, for time and space, as it has been theorized, make of the fabric of the created Universe. The Eternal manifestation of God, thus constitutes "The Father".

2) In creating the Universe, God also created the means by which He as the Eternal Being would able to interact with His creation. That interaction comes in the form of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is that manifestion of God that is in touch with the physical universe, in all it's many (how many? 10?) dimensions. This is how God is transcedent throughout the whole universe. The Holy Spirit is like a conduit between the Eternal occupational place of God and the finite realm of physical existence. In this view, the Holy Spirit more of an extension of God from the Eternal Realm than a whole separate Person.

3) Within this realm where the Holy Spirit intersects with the physical, God made a provision to enter the human condition. The created thing within Mary is God channeling down from the Eternal through the Holy Spirit, to the form of a man. It is not unlike a puppeteer in control of a puppet, or perhaps more accurately, a kid taking on the form of a video game character, where he is External (Father) to the game, whilst in control through the game controller that causes the electronic signals (Holy Spirit) to follow the wires to the game box and out to the TV where the character (Son) moves according to the commands.

Of course, a simple as this analogy is, it doesn't take into account the aforementioned relationship between God the Father and God the Son. There are far more dynamics involved. But I think much of it has to do with the dual nature of Christ, being fully human and fully God, there would no doubt be conflict. Also, there is the matter of reliance on the Holy Spirit in ministry, that as an example, we too can also draw from the same Spirit which was in Christ.

What do you think of my explanation so far?

 

[soleil10]

I dunno. I think if we approach the subject as if the Trinity is an unsolvable mystery we end up with an imprecise view of God.

I agree

How are we to know how we are to relate to God? To treat the Trinity as a mystery almost seems like a cop out to smooth over the apparent contradiction of the Shema ("Hear O Israel, the Lord our God is One"). Many unlearned are quick to accuse trinitarian Christians of worshipping three gods, which we very well know that is not the case. However, even for the typical Christian, the idea of three-in-one seems to be beyond reach of our grasp.

Muslims are having such success confronting Christianitywith this one

I believe a proper understanding of Trinity is essential in our ongoing relationship with God.[/quote]

I agree very much

1) Since God is the Eternal Spirit, He abides outside of time and space, for time and space, as it has been theorized, make of the fabric of the created Universe. The Eternal manifestation of God, thus constitutes "The Father".[/quote}

I will add God is our Parent (male and female) and His essence is Love

2) In creating the Universe, God also created the means by which He as the Eternal Being would able to interact with His creation. That interaction comes in the form of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is that manifestion of God that is in touch with the physical universe, in all it's many (how many? 10?) dimensions. This is how God is transcedent throughout the whole universe. The Holy Spirit is like a conduit between the Eternal occupational place of God and the finite realm of physical existence. In this view, the Holy Spirit more of an extension of God from the Eternal Realm than a whole separate Person.

Are you saying God is sitting on a throne somewhere and The Holy Spirit is
some kind a bridge/messenger ?
I am no sure if I understand what you are saying.
For me the Holy Spirit is the feminine part of God, (Often the word comforter is used)

3) Within this realm where the Holy Spirit intersects with the physical, God made a provision to enter the human condition. The created thing within Mary is God channeling down from the Eternal through the Holy Spirit, to the form of a man. It is not unlike a puppeteer in control of a puppet, or perhaps more accurately, a kid taking on the form of a video game character, where he is External (Father) to the game, whilst in control through the game controller that causes the electronic signals (Holy Spirit) to follow the wires to the game box and out to the TV where the character (Son) moves according to the commands.[/quote}

I did lost you here. The son (Adam) is the masculine part of God. Eve was the feminine part of God. (Please see my explanation to Thomas in the previous post)

Of course, a simple as this analogy is, it doesn't take into account the aforementioned relationship between God the Father and God the Son. There are far more dynamics involved. But I think much of it has to do with the dual nature of Christ, being fully human and fully God, there would no doubt be conflict. Also, there is the matter of reliance on the Holy Spirit in ministry, that as an example, we too can also draw from the same Spirit which was in Christ.

What do you think of my explanation so far?

Honestly, I think it is kind of complicated and that you may not be satisfied with it after a while. You are definitely working hard at it.

 

[soleil10]

Correction

I meant to write

I did lost you here
For me the son (Adam, Jesus) represents the masculine side of God and Eve (The holy spirit) represents the feminine side of God (please see my comment to Thomas above)

 

[Quahom1]

The Trinity is one man's treasure and another man's junk...

Which one had it right will be determined in the end, and there we be no retaking of the test...lol

 

[Thomas]

I think this makes it difficult to promote a religious belief especially in the 21st century where science is more developed.

Only when science declared religion was no longer necessary as it encompassed and enabled man to achieve his religious aspirations through science, effectively it announced itself the only real religion (as it did in the Enlightenment). In so doing it revealed its 'contrary' nature by inversion (understood esoterically) of the religious principle in man.

True religion seeks to conform man to the Real.
Science as religion seeks to conform the Real to man.

True science walks hand in hand with true religion.

There are many scientists in all fields who hold a religious belief without contradiction. Many forget that Darwin, for example, was and remained a Christian. He saw no reason to assume his theories in any way disproved God, or rendered God redundant.

+++

I totally agree the Holy Trinity is the starting point. It becomes complete with an additional 4th component...

Ah ... then here we part company. The Trinity is by no means 'incomplete' — if someone says that, rather it is their comprehension of it that is wanting.

That everything subsists through the Trinity is true, but as such everything is subsequent to the Trinity, external and relative to it. The Trinity exists outside of time and space, and beyond all modes and degrees of determination.

The Trinity is all about the interior life of God. After that, and because of it, it explains everything else. Whether the Cosmos exists or not, the Trinity is.

The Trinity is Absolute, nothing can be added to it, taken from it; it cannot be multiplied or divided, it cannot be changed or altered, mixed or separated, it cannot suffer increase or decrease, flow or flux ... It is what It is, eternally.

The rest, therefore, I read as error compounded on error.

It might be 'your' trinity, as there are many triunes in the various cosmological systems, but it is not the Trinity of Christianity, and when we say 'The Trinity' we mean the Christian one, as we do when we say 'the Son', as 'The Enlightened One' means the Buddha, and 'The Prophet' means Mohammed.

Thomas

 

[Thomas]

I dunno. I think if we approach the subject as if the Trinity is an unsolvable mystery we end up with an imprecise view of God.

Only he who possesses the mind of God can know God, so unless we assume we are equal to God, we will never truly know God as he knows Himself.

Science is imprecise, it knows it does not know all there is to know, but that's no reflection on science, or man.

Seems odd to say we know all about God, but we don't know what lies at the bottom of an ocean trench.

Science becomes dead when we assume we know all there is to be known, and likewise God does, too.

+++

Nor is it a doctrine that seems apparently essential to salvation...

I would say without Trinity there would be no creation ... but I take your point.

I, myself have devised a view that attempts to consolidate the idea of three Persons forming one God. This is an ongoing process for me, for the difficulty lies in the relationships between within the Three Persons that are still not clear.

Why? There is a vast library of Mystical knowledge on the Trinity ... can you equal that?

I've got stuff by Irenaeus, the very first theologian (c200ad) that is still unfolding itself for me ... then there's Athanasius, Hilary, Origen, the Cappadocians, Augustine, Maximus and Leontius ... and that's a fraction of the knowledge, and I haven't got the the 7th century yet ... have you covered all that ... and the rest?

Sorry mate ... but your theory is similar to Arianism, which makes the Spirit and the Son not quite the equal of God.

The Trinity does not exist because of, or for, creation. That is determinism.

Thomas

 

[Dondi]

Are you saying God is sitting on a throne somewhere and The Holy Spirit is
some kind a bridge/messenger ?
I am no sure if I understand what you are saying.
For me the Holy Spirit is the feminine part of God, (Often the word comforter is used)

No, I don't envision a literal anthromorphic Being sitting up in the Heaven. What I'm saying is that before the universe was created, God was 'somewhere', perhaps everywhere. After He created the universe, He's still there, wherever that is. I don't know if the universe has a boundary and God is outside that boundary, all I'm saying is that God is apart from His creation, though He is transcedent within the universe via the Holy Spirit, as subsequently immanent in His relationship with man. So yes,I believe the Holy Spirit is a bridge between the physical universe and God (the Father).

In Genesis 1, we have the Spirit of God moving over the waters after the creation of the heavens and the earth. And I believe this is indictive of the Holy Spirit's interaction with the physical universe. The implication is that God's command to "Let There Be Light" is for that Holy Spirit produced the power and energy to create that light in a physical manifestation.

It is said that God created the universe out of nothing. But really it is God creating the universe out of his own power. Afterall, all matter is is packets of energy in a lower state. Assuming the Big Bang is accurate, everything that exists now was in the form of pure energy in it's highest state, at the moment of creation. That was the Holy Spirit cracking into the physical realm. And as this energy cooled off, matter formed to everything we see now, including ourselves. We came from the power and energy of God. But all that energy is stored in the atoms of the universe.

The son (Adam) is the masculine part of God. Eve was the feminine part of God. (Please see my explanation to Thomas in the previous post)

While there are legitimate discussions concerning the nature of the Holy Spirit in regards to the feminine, indeed the word 'Shekinah' in describing the glory and the Presence of the Lord in the Wilderness Tabernacle is in the feminine form, I stop short in descibing God as either masculine or feminine, as if God is some kind of an androgenous being. Rather that He 'assigned' traits to the male and female that would serve to compliment each other and function as their respective roles as husband and wife, mother and father, in order to build the family unit. Nor do I think of Adam and Eve as part of the Trinity.

Inasfar as God's preference to being called Father, that is His way for us to consider Him as head of our lives as the fatherhead is the head of the family unit. It is a functional role, not a physical one.

If we were to apply literal gender whenever we come across it in scripture, then a problem arises when we come to the analogy of the Church as the Bride of Christ. Obviously, the male members of the Church are not going to undergo a sex change when the Bridegroom comes. The word is merely symoblic to our dedication to Christ and His promise to us to prepare us a unblemished at His coming, as described Ephesians 5:25-33.

]Honestly, I think it is kind of complicated and that you may not be satisfied with it after a while. You are definitely working hard at it.

My view is really not that complicated. All I'm doing is presenting a 'telescopic' view of the Trinity. The Father being at the highest level, outside the realm of the physical, down through the Holy Spirit through which God created the world and interacts with the world, down to where He Himself through that same Spirit took the form of a Man, in this case Jesus Christ.

If you've ever seen someone work with an electron microscope, they will only be able to manuplate the microscopic molecules and atoms with the smallest and most delicate of instruments. yet as they sit there looking at the screen while the electronic microsope show the images of the microscopic world, how much damage can they do to the delicate work they are involved in if they used all their power of the molecules they are trying to shape? So God took on the form of Jesus to be that small, delicate instrument so that He could interact with us, yet He still retains the power from on high to destroy us, if He so chooses. Do you see the analogy?