What does it mean to be forgiven?

[Gatekeeper]

..of our sins I mean?

Does it mean that we are free from the wrath of G-d, or does it mean delivered from our propensity to sin? I personally view it to be the latter, but I also view deliverance/forgiveness to be a process of change. A change of heart, mind, attitude, and behavior. Perhaps through these changes, our thought processes change as well. I don't know? what do you all think? I've always been of the mind that we are punished by our sins, and not for them ....

GK

 

[Marsh]

I've always been of the mind that we are punished by our sins, and not for them ....

I believe both are true: we are punished by our sins, and also punished for them.

Punished by: Many times people forget that the path of sin is one full of danger. You want to commit adultery? Be prepared to deal with the angry husband. You want to steal? Be prepared to deal with the shopkeeper who may or may not have a gun behind the counter. Most importantly, you want to throw in your lot with criminals? Be prepared, because they'll stab you in the back just as easily as one of your victims.


Punished for: God is very clear when he says that he shall repay. We're not supposed to exact revenge for sins against us; rather, we should pray for those who hurt us, because they will need to face punishment for their sins on the day of judgement that is coming, and in which we will all take part. God takes no pleasure in punishing his children, but he also takes no pleasure in watching his children being beaten, abused, and murdered. Punishment is coming for all who deserve it AND who are too proud to ask for forgiveness. The rest-- those who deserve punishment BUT who humble themselves and ask for forgiveness-- will be shown mercy, God willing, and washed clean in the blood of the Lamb.


Forgiveness is not a complicated concept, and to make it complicated is to miss the point. We all hurt others sometimes, and we are all hurt by others sometimes. To forgive means to ask God not to punish someone who has hurt you, even though they deserve it. To be forgiven means that God has decided not to punish you, even though you deserve it. In both cases, the root of forgiveness is love in the form of mercy. Thus, forgiveness is loving others as you love yourself.

It is and has always been part of God's character.

 

[Gatekeeper]

I believe both are true: we are punished by our sins, and also punished for them.

Punished by: Many times people forget that the path of sin is one full of danger. You want to commit adultery? Be prepared to deal with the angry husband. You want to steal? Be prepared to deal with the shopkeeper who may or may not have a gun behind the counter. Most importantly, you want to throw in your lot with criminals? Be prepared, because they'll stab you in the back just as easily as one of your victims.


Punished for: God is very clear when he says that he shall repay. We're not supposed to exact revenge for sins against us; rather, we should pray for those who hurt us, because they will need to face punishment for their sins on the day of judgement that is coming, and in which we will all take part. God takes no pleasure in punishing his children, but he also takes no pleasure in watching his children being beaten, abused, and murdered. Punishment is coming for all who deserve it AND who are too proud to ask for forgiveness. The rest-- those who deserve punishment BUT who humble themselves and ask for forgiveness-- will be shown mercy, God willing, and washed clean in the blood of the Lamb.


Forgiveness is not a complicated concept, and to make it complicated is to miss the point. We all hurt others sometimes, and we are all hurt by others sometimes. To forgive means to ask God not to punish someone who has hurt you, even though they deserve it. To be forgiven means that God has decided not to punish you, even though you deserve it. In both cases, the root of forgiveness is love in the form of mercy. Thus, forgiveness is loving others as you love yourself.

It is and has always been part of God's character.

I could be wrong, but I really don't view G-d to be dishing out punishment for our mistakes, and shortcomings. The consequences for our actions are enough in my mind. We pray for those who wrong us, so they might repent from their deeds, and be delivered from their sins. We pray that they might change, and therefore refrain from causing suffering in themselves, and in others.

We are experiencing the natural law of harvest I think. When we act selfishly, we ultimately cause harm to both us , and our neighbors. As a result, we end up living in a seemingly cruel world.

I do agree that the root of forgiveness, and salvation is love, though. God has set in place a perfect world, governed by His laws. When we break a law, we experience the consequences collectively. We are all in this life together after all, which is why the two greatest commandments are so important. They lead us into G-ds will, and righteousness.

Blessings

GK

 

[Marsh]

God didn't say, "He who spares the rod hates his child" for nothing, G. Not that God enjoys punishing, or that we should rejoice in knowing that those who hurt us may one day be punished for it, but rules is rules.

If there was to be no punishment for hurting others, then there would be no need for grace and mercy, yeah?

 

[Gatekeeper]

God didn't say, "He who spares the rod hates his child" for nothing, G. Not that God enjoys punishing, or that we should rejoice in knowing that those who hurt us may one day be punished for it, but rules is rules.

If there was to be no punishment for hurting others, then there would be no need for grace and mercy, yeah?

His mercy is granted when we take on Christ, and are made new creatures. It is a change, a true repentance, and a forsaking of our way of living before. "Be renewed in the Spirit of your minds", etc. His mercy is granted when we learn to live in His will for us, and forsake our own selfish desires that ultimately cause us, and others to suffer. [IMHO]

We teach our children by forcing our will upon them "We spare not the rod" G-d chastises those He loves, which is all of us through the natural law of harvest. (A broken rule a consequence)

Same principle with us, only G-ds ways are perfect, whereas ours are not. He doesn't force His will upon us, but rather has established a natural order of law existing with creation itself by which we are chastised, so that we might learn form our mistakes. [IMO]

GK

 

[lunamoth]

I do agree that the root of forgiveness, and salvation is love, though. God has set in place a perfect world, governed by His laws. When we break a law, we experience the consequences collectively. We are all in this life together after all, which is why the two greatest commandments are so important. They lead us into G-ds will, and righteousness.

Blessings

GK

As always GK I like and agree with your emphasis on God's love.

I can't agree with either of the options you lay out in the OP, although I do agree that we are often punished by our sins. The problem is that as often as not, others are punished by our sins instead of us.

Forgiven for our sins to me means that God has himself paid the cost of our sin with respect to our relationship with him. Instead of hiring a lawyer and seeking a divorce, he says he is still open to the relationship. Come back, love him, try again.

Each time we betray that relationship, well, we've hurt that relationship. It can become a matter of habit until we no longer value it, turn our back on it completely and neglected, it withers.

It is up to us to return to that relationship and try again. God's forgiveness means that there is nothing we can do that he will not be there for us when we again return to him.

 

[Gatekeeper]

As always GK I like and agree with your emphasis on God's love.

I can't agree with either of the options you lay out in the OP, although I do agree that we are often punished by our sins. The problem is that as often as not, others are punished by our sins instead of us.

Forgiven for our sins to me means that God has himself paid the cost of our sin with respect to our relationship with him. Instead of hiring a lawyer and seeking a divorce, he says he is still open to the relationship. Come back, love him, try again.

Each time we betray that relationship, well, we've hurt that relationship. It can become a matter of habit until we no longer value it, turn our back on it completely and neglected, it withers.

It is up to us to return to that relationship and try again. God's forgiveness means that there is nothing we can do that he will not be there for us when we again return to him.

Well if you look at the Greek term used for forgiveness/remission in the NT You will see that it is defined as liberation/deliverance/freedom from. For me, this would imply freedom from sin itself. G-d will always forgive in the sense that many use the term [IMO], but it isn't until we forsake self desire, and live for Him that we are truly liberated, delivered, and free. I think is is a process, and one that begins when we realize our faults, and desire His righteousness above ourselves.

Blessings

GK

Edit: Good to see ya, Luna!!!

 

[lunamoth]

Well if you look at the Greek term used for forgiveness/remission in the NT You will see that it is defined as liberation/deliverance/freedom from. For me, this would imply freedom from sin itself. G-d will always forgive in the sense that many use the term [IMO], but it isn't until we forsake self desire, and live for Him that we are truly liberated, delivered, and free. I think is is a process, and one that begins when we realize our faults, and desire His righteousness above ourselves.

Blessings

GK

Edit: Good to see ya, Luna!!!

Can't argue with any of that!

Although I would add, in my experience it is not possible in this life to live completely without sin. Yes, we need to consciously choose and turn away from sinful, hurtful actions to the best of our ability and we are given strength and courage from God to do so. Yes, actual transformation and actions of loving-kindness are key to living in God's Kingdom now. Forgiving others and ourselves is a huge part of this transformation.

But you asked specifically about what does it mean to be forgiven our sins by God, and that is what I answered.

It would be nice if that meant we can't sin any more, but is not what happens.

 

[Gatekeeper]

Can't argue with any of that!

Although I would add, in my experience it is not possible in this life to live completely without sin. Yes, we need to consciously choose and turn away from sinful, hurtful actions to the best of our ability and we are given strength and courage from God to do so. Yes, actual transformation and actions of loving-kindness are key to living in God's Kingdom now. Forgiving others and ourselves is a huge part of this transformation.

But you asked specifically about what does it mean to be forgiven our sins by God, and that is what I answered.

It would be nice if that meant we can't sin any more, but is not what happens.

Well, it must happen one day. As I understand it, G-d hates sin, and there will be no sin in heaven. I really don't think that we can live in sin, and then one day "P00F" we die, and are somehow freed from it after. I have never met a sinless person, but I am hopeful that Christ in me will afford me the opportunity, and give me the ability, and strength to live in the will of G-d.

What does it mean to be forgiven? I think to be forgiven is to be free, delivered, and liberated from our willingness to live apart from G-d. Which means, to consciously seek self will over G-ds will for us. Forgiveness is what happens when we truly desire to live for G-d, and crucify our desire for self.

Mar 9:23 And Jesus said to him, "'If you can'! All things are possible for one who believes."

Php 4:13 I can do all things through him who strengthens me.

Can't never could do nothin, Luna!

Hopeful,

Gk

 

[lunamoth]

Well, it must happen one day. As I understand it, G-d hates sin, and there will be no sin in heaven. I really don't think that we can live in sin, and then one day "P00F" we die, and are somehow freed from it after.

Why not?

I have never met a sinless person, but I am hopeful that Christ in me will afford me the opportunity, and give me the ability, and strength to live in the will of G-d.

That's why we all pray James. We pray and listen for God to move our hearts in ever closer alignment with His will.

What does it mean to be forgiven? I think to be forgiven is to be free, delivered, and liberated from our willingness to live apart from G-d. Which means, to consciously seek self will over G-ds will for us. Forgiveness is what happens when we truly desire to live for G-d, and crucify our desire for self.

It sounds to me like your recognition of your own forgiveness is what gives you the desire and strength to live selflessly and seek God's will. I agree that's an outcome, a fruit, of forgiveness.

I often compare it to a dance. When the music starts and both partners are willing, it is impossible to see who moves first, who leads and who follows.

Mar 9:23 And Jesus said to him, "'If you can'! All things are possible for one who believes."

Php 4:13 I can do all things through him who strengthens me.

Can't never could do nothin, Luna!

I hear you James.

I think we're on the same page, just expressing it slightly differently, from our own perspectives.

 

[Gatekeeper]

Why not?



That's why we all pray James. We pray and listen for God to move our hearts in ever closer alignment with His will.


It sounds to me like your recognition of your own forgiveness is what gives you the desire and strength to live selflessly and seek God's will. I agree that's an outcome, a fruit, of forgiveness.

I often compare it to a dance. When the music starts and both partners are willing, it is impossible to see who moves first, who leads and who follows.


I hear you James.

I think we're on the same page, just expressing it slightly differently, from our own perspectives.

I think we are too. I truly believe that G-d will always forgive in the sense that many view the term, but also that forgiveness (My view of) starts in the heart of man. It is the Spirit within us that leads us, and pushes us further into Gods will. As we begin to live for G-d, we slowly die to self, and that is the miracle of the forgiveness I refer to.

GK

 

[Bishadi]

..of our sins I mean?

Does it mean that we are free from the wrath of G-d, or does it mean delivered from our propensity to sin?

In each of the abrahamic branches, Christianity has a focus on 'forgiveness'.

The 'turn the other cheek' metaphor is a fantastic addition and contribution by Jesus to mankind.

The idea that a person can hit you and you forgive him by not allowing it to cause you pain but to accept the blow, forgive the person and not allow it to continue in your actions, is true forgiveness.

That to turn the other check, you forgive the action upon existence.

such that you can stop the chain from continuing, by choice.

Now if you choose not to forgive, then when your car is broken into, you be sure to lock the door next time. So the action is not dead, but alive.

Any action imposed to exist can either be 'forgiven' by a human being and hopefully the negative will stop there but be certain, when an action is imposed.... nothing will UNDO the occurance; it still happened and it still exists.

The beauty of forgiveness is a human being can not allow the negative to continue living in what YOU DO.

Thank you Jesus for the lesson!

 

[Marsh]

I think we are too. I truly believe that G-d will always forgive in the sense that many view the term, but also that forgiveness (My view of) starts in the heart of man. It is the Spirit within us that leads us, and pushes us further into Gods will. As we begin to live for G-d, we slowly die to self, and that is the miracle of the forgiveness I refer to.

GK

Yes, forgiveness begins in our hearts-- as we forgive other people who hurt us (i.e. who sin against us). Jesus is very clear on this point: that if we hope to be forgiven for our sins, that we must forgive others, because the same measuring stick we use is the one that God will use to measure our actions with.

Your ideas are very heart-warming, Gatekeeper, and full of hope in that our God is a loving God who does not want to punish us. That doesn't mean that God will not punish the sinner, though, and it is very important to understand that for every ounce that God is loving, he is also just. I know that you don't like to think of God handing down a death sentence (or rather, a second-death sentence), but the Bible is very clear that he will, and for good reason: not all of us want to be good.

It seems to me that you are looking at things from the perspective of someone who is essentially good, and who holds that goodness dearly near to your heart. Not everyone feels the same way. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, says the book of Proverbs. He is merciful, but only towards those of us who are merciful as well, and who ask for mercy.

 

[wil]

for give...to give for...

There is no 'wrath' of G!d, as stated we are punished by our sins not for them.

In G!d's 'eyes' you are a perfect creation. 'He' is waiting for you to realize this. There is nothing to be forgiven, except your not forgiving yourself.

Everyone is always doing the best with the knowledge they currently have. EVERYONE. You, I, they weigh options and make a decision based on experience and knowledge...and we always make the best decision according to that info at that moment (if it wasn't we wouldn't have)...hindsight, looking back on it we see it was a bad decision, but 'it seemed a good idea at the time'...why?? Becuase we now have new information, new knowledge, new experience as we evaluate the consequences.

Forgiveness isn't about being forgiven, it is about forgiving. Forgiving yourself and others.

The biggest joke in this realm is the thought "S/he doesn't deserve forgiveness" as if you are anointing yourself somehow. Forgiveness isn't for others..it is for yourself. If you don't forgive it means you are carrying some perceived wrong and giving it power over your own psyche and stagnating your own growth.

Say someone slighted you, or you perceived they slighted you. If you conitinue carrying this everytime you see them, you'll feel they owe you, you'll feel animosity for them, you'll not be yourself as you have allowed this to fester and control your emotions... Why the heck would we let others do this, why do we give them this power? If we forgive them for this we can move on in our life without this impedement.

Life is good...should we decide to make it so.

 

[Azure24]

In G!d's 'eyes' you are a perfect creation. 'He' is waiting for you to realize this. There is nothing to be forgiven, except your not forgiving yourself.

Opinions, opinions, opinions... I am SICK of OPINIONS! Have you read my thread? (Twelve Spiritual truths)...

In God's 'eyes' 'this'! In God's 'eyes' 'that'! Says who? You?!

Let's see what God SAY'S in this matter...

"For the creature [and/or creation itself] wasMADE subject to VANITY NOT WILLINGLY, but by reason of Him [that’s God] Who HATH SUBJECTED the same in hope. Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the BONDAGE OF CORRUPTION into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the WHOLE CREATION groans and travails IN PAINuntil NOW" (Rom. 8:20-22)!


The force of these verses in Rom. 8:20-22 is inescapable. It was God HIMSELF Who subjected the whole creation to vanity, and He didn’t ask anyone’s permission before He did it. And it is only God Himself Who will deliver the whole creation from the bondage of corruption, pain, and suffering. Make no mistake about it: God is the Creator of evil, and He takes full responsibility for the deliverance from the consequences of all the evils that have caused the creation to "groan and travail in PAIN until NOW" as Paul describes. God takes responsibility for the temporary failures of creation so that He can take all the credit and glory for its successes.

It was not possible for Adam and Eve NOT TO SIN -- they were created for the express purpose of being molded into the "image of God," and so of course, they had to eat of the forbidden tree of the knowledge of good and evil or they would have NEVER reached this first spiritual step in becoming LIKE GOD (in His IMAGE), a step of paramount DIVINE REQUISITE:

"And the LORD God said, Behold [consider, to perceive, to know, to understand], the man is BECOME AS ONE OF US [Hebrew for ‘God’ is elohiym which is the plural of elowahh, hence ‘us’], TO KNOW GOOD AND EVIL..." (Gen. 3:22).

Knowing "good and evil" is one of the most essential requisites in being formed in the image of God. To truly "know" both good and evil they HAD to partake of its source, which was the "TREE of the knowledge of good and evil," which then DEMANDED that they SIN in order to obtain this "knowledge." NO OTHER TREE IN THE GARDEN POSSESSED THIS NEEDED KNOWLEDGE!

And so it was GOD, and none other than GOD, Who intended from the beginning that Satan and man SIN! That does not make God a sinner, for a sin is a "mistake," a "missing of the mark," a "falling short of the glory of God," and God has NEVER MADE A MISTAKE OR FALLEN SHORT OF TOTAL PERFECTION! God knew what He was doing and how things would turn out BEFORE He created ANYTHING! "Declaring the end from the beginning..." (Isa. 46:10). Satan and man are "accountable" for their sins, because they sinned willingly from their heart, but God takes "responsibility" for their sins, and therefore had already provided them a Saviour BEFORE the foundation of the world:

"But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was FOREORDAINED BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, but was manifested in these last times for you" (I Pet. 1:19-20).

Making mankind into God’s own Image is a process that involves a lifetime of trials and tribulations that includes the crucifying and mortifying of the carnal human mind and body. I realize that from the King James and many modern translations it sounds like it was a "past tense" made in His image at creation, but actually it was not. Gen. 1:26-27 is equivalent to our English imperfect. Here is how one Version translates it:


"And saying is God, Make WILL WE [a continuing action] humanity in Our image…"


and


"And CREATING [a continuing action] is God humanity in His image" (Gen. 1:26a & 27a Concordant Literal Old Testament).

and regarding forgiveness...(mind you all this is written in the Scriptures)

All will be forgiven...

Who do you think crucified Jesus? The Romans? Jews? You? Me? Everyone?
As a matter of fact all the above are correct and I will prove it...

"For he is NOT a Jew, which is one outwardly, neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God" (Rom. 2:28-29).



"For WE ARE THE CIRCUMCISION, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh" (Phil. 3:3).


Who are the true circumcision which then becomes the True Jew? Paul says "we." As soon as we know who the "we" is, we will also know who is the "them." Paul was writing to the Phillipians, who lived in Phillipi, a Gentile city in N-central Macedonia. So these Phillipian converts were both Gentiles, and true Jews ("we [Phillipian Gentiles] are the circumcision -- Phil. 3:3, which are the true inward Jew -- Rom. 2:28-29, the true "Israel of God" -- Gal. 6:16).

Now then, let us see the plain Scriptural truth as to who the "them" are that Jesus asked His Father to "forgive."

"FATHER ... FORGIVE THEM ... for they know not what they do" (Luke 23:33-34).

For whomever the Father "forgives" will certainly not be tortured in an eternal hellhole of fire.

In Acts 3:6-8 Peter asks Christ to heal a man. The whole city was privy to this miracle. Peter speaks to the crowd:

"Ye MEN OF ISRAEL [that’s us, WE are the "Israel of God" the "True Jew"] ... Jesus, Whom ye [that’s US] delivered up, and DENIED [along with Peter] Him ... For ye [that’s US again] DENIED the Holy One and Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you; and KILLED the Prince of life ... And now, brethren, I am aware that through IGNORANCE [‘for they know NOT what they do’] ye did it, as did your rulers ... The priests, and the captain of the temple, and the Sadducees ... Annas the high priest, and Ciaphas, and John, and Alexander ... Ye RULERS of the people, and ELDERS of Israel ... Be it known unto YOU ALL, and to ALL THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom YE CRUCIFIED..."

Why did the HEATHEN rage, and the PEOPLE imagine vain things? The KINGS OF THE EARTH stood up, and the RULERS [see I Cor. 2:8] were gathered together AGAINST the Lord, and AGAINST His Christ ...

"For of a truth AGAINST thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, WITH THE GENTILES [that’s US, ALL NATIONS] and the PEOPLE OF ISRAEL [that’s also US], were gathered together, For to do whatsoever Thy hand and Thy counsel determined before to be done [CRUCIFY HIM]" (Acts 3:12-4:28).

Who crucified our Lord and Saviour? And who is it that are to be forgiven because they know not what they do? "YOU ALL," "ALL THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL," "THE HEATHEN," "THE PEOPLE," "THE KINGS OF THE EARTH," "THE RULERS," and "HEROD, PONTIUS PILATE, WITH THE GENTILES!!! Do you still think your name is left out of this list somehow?

The whole world is accountable for crucifying their Saviour Jesus Christ. But as it was done in "ignorance" (for they know not what they do), the whole world will be forgiven.

The worst sin ever committed by the worst sinners in the history of the universe, was the cruel beating and crucifixion of Jesus Christ -- the Perfect Man and Son of God! Does anyone really believe that Ted Bundy’s crimes were worse than Crucifying the Son of God? Did the men immediately responsible (ultimately I’ve shown that we ALL were responsible) for His crucifixion show any remorse or repentance except Judas? Yet, Jesus Christ asked God to "forgive them" at the very time that they showed no remorse whatsoever.

Will the Father HEAR these words and ANSWER these words of Christ’s prayer? Are these just the sentimental words of Jesus that will not be heard or answered by a HARSH God in Heaven? Just Whose "words" are these, anyway? Where did these words of Jesus "forgive them" really come from?

"Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the FATHER IN ME? The WORDS that I speak unto you I speak NOT OF MYSELF; but the Father that dwells in Me, HE DOES THE WORKS" (John 14:10).

Or was this doctrine of "forgive them for they know not what they do" before they ever repent, a doctrine of Christ that God did not approve of?

"Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is NOT MINE, but HIS THAT SENT ME. If any man will do His will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of GOD, or whether I speak of myself " (John 7:16-17).



Still not convinced I can continue?

"To everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven: A time to be born, and a time to die ... a time to kill, and a time to heal..." (Ecc. 3:1-3).

And finally...

"That which the eye did not perceive, and the ear did not hear, and to which the heart of man did not ascend-whatever God makes ready for those who are loving Him" (I Cor. 2:9)

And, of course...

" ... those who are loving Him" will include ALL HUMANITY and all in the heavens" (Phil. 2:11).

Life is good...should we decide to make it so.

No, not yet...

The good news is that all of our suffering is for a grand purpose and will ultimately bring huge rewards.Just two verses before, Paul tells us how God subjected the whole creation to these many evils and he gives us this comforting thought:

"For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time [’groaning and travailing in pain together until now’ Ver 22] are not worthy to be compared with the GLORY which shall be revealed in US" (Ver. 18).

 

[wil]

Opinions, opinions, opinions... I am SICK of OPINIONS! Have you read my thread? (Twelve Spiritual truths)...

lol, "I'm sick of opinions have you read my thread"...sorry master, I'm so unworthy, please forgive me.

 

[GlorytoGod]

I just want to say,

God, thank you for your forgiveness and your freedom and your love etc

 

[Azure24]

lol, "I'm sick of opinions have you read my thread"...sorry master, I'm so unworthy, please forgive

me.

Silly statement...

I've noticed something, in recent years when I've used reference to quote the Scriptures. Nobody has ever pointed to me a mistake. Used Scriptural reference to contradict what the Scriptures have said or even me. Instead they use cheap shots, quoting me on something else for humour.


There are three great evils of men on earth today: corrupt government, false science, and deceitful religion. Of these, the Christian doctrine of "Eternal Torment" for the majority of God's children, is by far the single greatest evil and contemptible teaching ever foisted on the human race anywhere on the face of the earth, in the entire history of the world!

As God wills in the years ahead, the truth concerning this and other Christian doctrines will be made known for all people to see. People will finally see this evil teaching for what it is: an anti-Scriptural, anti-God, doctrine of demons, and Satan's greatest effort to blaspheme the very name of God among the nations. And those who teach these evil lies, will, like the Naked Emperor, also stand exposed before all!

 

[wil]

Nobody has ever pointed to me a mistake.

There are three great evils of men on earth today: corrupt government, false science, and deceitful religion.

I find no use at barking at trees. But to humor you, tell us of this false science. I think it will still be appropriate in the forgiveness thread as the others will have to forgive me for asking.

 

[Marsh]

I find no use at barking at trees. But to humor you, tell us of this false science. I think it will still be appropriate in the forgiveness thread as the others will have to forgive me for asking.

False science is any science that bills itself as the truth when it is, in fact, theoretical. And there is lots of it, Wil. Psychology is extremely theoretical, and how many people follow Dr. Phil as if he is the Messiah, and as if his word is absolute truth? How many people scoff at the idea that the Earth was created, and are yet perfectly satisfied with the explanation that a spontaneous explosion in some void of nothingness was the beginning of the universe, and that inert amino acids somehow combined in such a way as to come to life?

The most important part of science is the element of doubt. Without doubt, there is no reason to prove, and without a reason to prove, there is no reason to experiment, ponder, theorize. But when people begin asserting that science has proven things it has not, and that it has removed the need for doubt when it has not, then it becomes as destructive as any false teaching.

Face it: There are indeed people out there who use science to rationalize their disbelief in God, when in fact it not only does not, but also does not intend to. This is, I think, the false science being spoken of.