Swine?

[Gatekeeper]

Mat 7:6 "Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before swine, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you.

I see the word thrown around on other forums fairly often, so I want to attempt to define what the swine represent. In a Jewish culture, pigs are considered unclean animals, so does this imply that anyone 'unclean' represents swine? If this is true, then anyone who is not born again would fit the bill. This can't be the case, as Christians are charged with spreading the gospel, and I certainly consider the gospel to be a pearl.

Perhaps swine simply represents those who have absolutely no desire for the things of G-d, or rather those who are determined to live sinful lifestyles apart from our heavenly fathers will. Perhaps the intent was to allow the swine to wallow in the muck of sin, until they come to desire the things of G-d, [our] heavenly 'father'?

Take the Prodigal son for example. (Luke 15:11-32)

The son leaves for a far country after receiving his 'early' inheritance where he wastes it all on a sinful life. He is brought to ruin. He must now find work to make a living. He comes to a point where he must feed someone's pigs for work. Pigs are considered unclean animals, so being hired to feed them and then being hungry enough to desire the food they eat illustrates the worst possible situation a person can reach.

The prodigal son had no desire to remain in his fathers good will, but rather chose/desired a sinful lifestyle over his father. He came to ruin as a result, and perhaps needed to do so, so he might recognize his need for him.

The prodigal son would be considered "swine" [IMO] as he chose his will to live in sin in favor of his fathers will. But, he came to a point where he reached rock bottom, and then came to desire what His father could provide (If only as a servant).

So, if my sentiments are accurate, then swine too are able to be reconciled back to our heavenly father, but it is one's desire that makes the difference. Anyone showing a desire for righteousness are not swine. (No matter the religion they adhere to) Swine are those who are enthralled in sin, and who reject any notion of G-d, or righteousness.

Any other thoughts on what swine represent? This is the best I could come up with.

GK

 

[mee]

The apostle Peter compared Christians who revert to their former course of life to a sow that returns to its wallow after having been washed. (2Pe 2:22)

 

[Nick_A]

Mat 7:6 "Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before swine, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you.

I see the word thrown around on other forums fairly often, so I want to attempt to define what the swine represent. In a Jewish culture, pigs are considered unclean animals, so does this imply that anyone 'unclean' represents swine? If this is true, then anyone who is not born again would fit the bill. This can't be the case, as Christians are charged with spreading the gospel, and I certainly consider the gospel to be a pearl.

Perhaps swine simply represents those who have absolutely no desire for the things of G-d, or rather those who are determined to live sinful lifestyles apart from our heavenly fathers will. Perhaps the intent was to allow the swine to wallow in the muck of sin, until they come to desire the things of G-d, [our] heavenly 'father'?

Take the Prodigal son for example. (Luke 15:11-32)

The son leaves for a far country after receiving his 'early' inheritance where he wastes it all on a sinful life. He is brought to ruin. He must now find work to make a living. He comes to a point where he must feed someone's pigs for work. Pigs are considered unclean animals, so being hired to feed them and then being hungry enough to desire the food they eat illustrates the worst possible situation a person can reach.

The prodigal son had no desire to remain in his fathers good will, but rather chose/desired a sinful lifestyle over his father. He came to ruin as a result, and perhaps needed to do so, so he might recognize his need for him.

The prodigal son would be considered "swine" [IMO] as he chose his will to live in sin in favor of his fathers will. But, he came to a point where he reached rock bottom, and then came to desire what His father could provide (If only as a servant).

So, if my sentiments are accurate, then swine too are able to be reconciled back to our heavenly father, but it is one's desire that makes the difference. Anyone showing a desire for righteousness are not swine. (No matter the religion they adhere to) Swine are those who are enthralled in sin, and who reject any notion of G-d, or righteousness.

Any other thoughts on what swine represent? This is the best I could come up with.

GK

From the esoteric perspective swine refers to the neck of a pig that prevents it from looking up. It isn't that the pig is bad but just that it isn't constructed to change its psychology. Christianity asserts the potential for a change of inner psychological direction sometimes described as looking up. Some insist on only looking down, attached to the earth, and not changing inner direction. Naturally then, the inner meaning of Christianity is useless and can only become perverted so there is no sense in the revelation of the sacred for it to become devalued from this inability to change diretion. If done it causes more harm than good for the person that is fixated on the secular.

 

[Gatekeeper]

The apostle Peter compared Christians who revert to their former course of life to a sow that returns to its wallow after having been washed. (2Pe 2:22)

I think the intent is to ultimately convey living, or returning to a sinful lifestyle with no regard for the things of G-d (Our Heavenly Father). I think the prodigal son is quite telling, as well as descriptive of what it means to wallow in the muck of sin.

Thanks mee,

GK

 

[Gatekeeper]

From the esoteric perspective swine refers to the neck of a pig that prevents it from looking up. It isn't that the pig is bad but just that it isn't constructed to change its psychology. Christianity asserts the potential for a change of inner psychological direction sometimes described as looking up. Some insist on only looking down, attached to the earth, and not changing inner direction. Naturally then, the inner meaning of Christianity is useless and can only become perverted so there is no sense in the revelation of the sacred for it to become devalued from this inability to change diretion. If done it causes more harm than good for the person that is fixated on the secular.

That is an interesting view, Nick - What you're suggesting though implies that there are some who simply cannot be saved, or "Look up" to the things of G-d. I'll disagree with this, as I feel that all men have the ability to change. Maybe not believe in G-d, but rather they can ultimately walk in His will by simply utilizing a different channel to Him. (Much like other religions)

GK

 

[wil]

Namaste James,

Interesting you take the example of the prodigal son to contemplate swine.

Also interesting that you did not finish the story, yes the boy came back, and would take anything, a servants job, to be back with his father...

But what does the father do? He offers him everything.

In this story the father is Our Father. And G!ds capability of unconditional love and forgiveness is aptly described...there is nothing that can't be pardoned if one returns to the fold.

 

[Gatekeeper]

Namaste James,

Interesting you take the example of the prodigal son to contemplate swine.

Also interesting that you did not finish the story, yes the boy came back, and would take anything, a servants job, to be back with his father...

But what does the father do? He offers him everything.

In this story the father is Our Father. And G!ds capability of unconditional love and forgiveness is aptly described...there is nothing that can't be pardoned if one returns to the fold.

Right you are, wil ... Our heavenly father is quite loving, as well as merciful, desiring that we remain with Him. Great thoughts, Wil ....

Thanks,

GK

 

[Nick_A]

That is an interesting view, Nick - What you're suggesting though implies that there are some who simply cannot be saved, or "Look up" to the things of G-d. I'll disagree with this, as I feel that all men have the ability to change. Maybe not believe in G-d, but rather they can ultimately walk in His will by simply utilizing a different channel to Him. (Much like other religions)

GK

It isn't a matter of cultural convention or an external change of morality but an inner change of psychological direction. From that perspective this passage in John 6 must mean something:

43"Stop grumbling among yourselves," Jesus answered. 44"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.

From this perspective it does me no good to worry about who is not drawn but rather to be appreciative that I am drawn. Who am I to judge others? It is better for me to help this drawing process within me rather than worry if any are not drawn.

 

[Gatekeeper]

It isn't a matter of cultural convention or an external change of morality but an inner change of psychological direction. From that perspective this passage in John 6 must mean something:

I believe that the father draws us all, only many would fight tooth and nail to keep their lives. Even so, there is always hope for the "swine", or rather those who seem to not be able to "look up".

From this perspective it does me no good to worry about who is not drawn but rather to be appreciative that I am drawn. Who am I to judge others? It is better for me to help this drawing process within me rather than worry if any are not drawn.

Like I said, I believe that [all] are drawn in one form, or another, but I agree that it is not for us to judge anothers capacity/ability to look up towards the things of G-d.

Thanks,

GK

 

[seattlegal]

Mat 7:6 "Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before swine, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you.
​

pearls = wisdom
swine = without discretion (see Prov 11:22*)
hate does not overcome hate

match colors:

Proverbs 9:7-8
7 The one who corrects a mocker
will bring dishonor on himself;
the one who rebukes a wicked man will get hurt.
8 Don't rebuke a mocker, or he will hate you;
rebuke a wise man, and he will love you.

Proverbs 15:12
12 A mocker doesn't love one who corrects him;
he will not consult the wise.

(*Prov 11:22 [As] a jewel of gold in a swine's snout, [so is] a fair woman which is without discretion.)
​

 

[Gatekeeper]

Mat 7:6 "Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before swine, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you.
​

pearls = wisdom
swine = without discretion (see Prov 11:22*)
hate does not overcome hate

match colors:

Proverbs 9:7-8
7 The one who corrects a mocker
will bring dishonor on himself;
the one who rebukes a wicked man will get hurt.
8 Don't rebuke a mocker, or he will hate you;
rebuke a wise man, and he will love you.

Proverbs 15:12
12 A mocker doesn't love one who corrects him;
he will not consult the wise.

(*Prov 11:22 [As] a jewel of gold in a swine's snout, [so is] a fair woman which is without discretion.)
​

Nice!! I like this, SG - You have done quite a successful job making your point.

Kudo's and many thanks,

GK

 

[Dream]

I would like to propose something about this, although I like what has been said. SG had a particularly good idea.

Jesus astonished people by teaching as one with authority -- that is he taught in the same style as Moses. The companion verse that helps explain Matthew 7:6 is Matthew 7:15 --> "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." These verses and most of chapter 7 condemn inherent corruption of religious leaders, which are called 'Judges' through the Bible! Verse one begins with 'Judge not', which is an admonition not to become one of these leaders. When verse 6 said 'Give not what is holy to dogs' it meant don't give tithes and portions of offerings to corrupt religious leaders. God calls 'Holy' the tithe and offerings. Instead of giving these to religious leaders, Jesus (with authority equal to Moses) teaches his followers to give to the poor and to whomever asks. No longer is the holy tithe and holy offering to be processed by the corrupt, but the people are to instead discern the leadership by their actions (or fruit).

I have actually heard some people object that if they give whenever someone asks it will ruin them. (Mat 5:42) I don't think that is what Jesus means at all, but he is instead changing the way that tithes and offerings are processed. This could be wrong, however the entire beatitudes working as a unit, gives me this impression.

 

[seattlegal]

I would like to propose something about this, although I like what has been said. SG had a particularly good idea.

Jesus astonished people by teaching as one with authority -- that is he taught in the same style as Moses. The companion verse that helps explain Matthew 7:6 is Matthew 7:15 --> "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." These verses and most of chapter 7 condemn inherent corruption of religious leaders, which are called 'Judges' through the Bible! Verse one begins with 'Judge not', which is an admonition not to become one of these leaders. When verse 6 said 'Give not what is holy to dogs' it meant don't give tithes and portions of offerings to corrupt religious leaders. God calls 'Holy' the tithe and offerings. Instead of giving these to religious leaders, Jesus (with authority equal to Moses) teaches his followers to give to the poor and to whomever asks. No longer is the holy tithe and holy offering to be processed by the corrupt, but the people are to instead discern the leadership by their actions (or fruit).

I have actually heard some people object that if they give whenever someone asks it will ruin them. (Mat 5:42) I don't think that is what Jesus means at all, but he is instead changing the way that tithes and offerings are processed. This could be wrong, however the entire beatitudes working as a unit, gives me this impression.

I was going to mention something about male temple prostitutes being referred to as "dogs," (as a stab against the corrupt leaders) but Gatekeeper was asking about swine.

 

[Dream]

I was going to mention something about male temple prostitutes being referred to as "dogs," (as a stab against the corrupt leaders) but gatekeeper was asking about swine.

I don't quite understand the difference between the dog & the swine, or between the holy and the pearl but thought they were the same idea. Don't understand why Jesus used two things here.

 

[mee]

“Do not give what is holy to dogs, neither throw your pearls before swine, that they may never trample them under their feet and turn around and rip you open.
matthew7;6


Jesus warned his disciples, at Matthew 7:6.

For example,
individuals with wicked intent may have no right to know certain things.

Christians understand that they are living in a hostile world.


Jesus advised his disciples to be “cautious as serpents” while remaining “innocent as doves.” (Matthew 10:16; John 15:19)


Jesus did not always disclose the full truth, especially when revealing all the facts could have brought unnecessary harm to himself or his disciples.

Still, even at such times, he did not lie.


Instead, he chose either to say nothing or to divert the conversation in another direction.—Matthew 15:1-6; 21:23-27; John 7:3-10.


The truths from God’s Word are holy. They are like figurative pearls.



Jesus Christ compared persons having no appreciation for spiritual things to dogs,

The inability of swine to recognize the value of pearls was employed by Jesus in illustrating the unwisdom of sharing spiritual things with those having no appreciation whatever of spiritual thoughts and teachings. (Mt 7:6)

 

[seattlegal]

I don't quite understand the difference between the dog & the swine, or between the holy and the pearl but thought they were the same idea. Don't understand why Jesus used two things here.

I'm not sure if this is a valid interpretation, but this is what comes to my mind:

Deut 23:17 “There shall be no ritual harlot (qedeshah) of the daughters of Israel, or a perverted one of the sons of Israel. (qadesh) 18 You shall not bring the wages of a harlot or the price of a dog to the house of the LORD your God for any vowed offering, for both of these are an abomination to the LORD your God.

Prov 11:22 [As] a jewel of gold in a swine's snout, [so is] a fair woman which is without discretion.​

This scripture expresses what you wrote in post #12:

Matt 15:1-6
1 Then the scribes and Pharisees who were from Jerusalem came to Jesus, saying, 2 “Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread.”
3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father or mother.’ Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition.​

Basically, I think Jesus was referring to these folks as "dogs," or qadeshim. Temple prostitutes. {Pardon me if I didn't get the Hebrew plural form correct.} However, I'm not entirely certain. I really think that the mocking aspect scriptures also applies to the "swine" reference. These folks were in actuality, mocking the spirit of the law by their practices.

 

[Dream]

Basically, I think Jesus was referring to these folks as "dogs," or qadeshim. Temple prostitutes. {Pardon me if I didn't get the Hebrew plural form correct.} However, I'm not entirely certain. I really think that the mocking aspect scriptures also applies to the "swine" reference. These folks were in actuality, mocking the spirit of the law by their practices.

Hmm makes sense. There are plenty of examples of times when the temple authorities had introduced fertility customs into Israeli worship practices.

• One of those times was revealed to Ezekiel by means of a vision in which he was told there were women in the temple weeping 'for Tammuz', a fertility goddess.(Ez8:14)
• Another was when high priest Eli allowed his sons to corrupt the sacrifices and sleep with the women who served at the temple. It is significant that they and their father, Eli, died the same same day(ISam4:11) that the Covenant Ark was captured, and the sole heir of Eli was named 'The glory has departed.' The imagery of this event loomed in Jesus speeches about impending judgment against the religious system of his day.