reincarnation literal ?

[GlorytoGod]

is reincarnation literal ?

or it merely a miss-understanding of spiritual laws that are beyond our comprehension ?

 

[wil]

Namaste GtG,

Tis a good question.

To me if Jesus, Heaven and Hell are literal, reincarnation is. I can't envision my loving forgiving G!d who sends his Son to tell us to forgive 70x7 would give his creation/children just one shot at it and then toss us into the fire...

However if they aren'r literal...you may have something to contemplate...

 

[Nick the Pilot]

It is literal.

 

[wil]

It is literal.

Now that is what I like, one who knows.

So for all of us who believe what happens after we die to be unkonwn and conjecture how about stating the process, physically, scientifically, spiritually.

Does everyone reincarnate?

Where did so many people come from?

Do souls join? split?

Where is the waiting station, what form are we in between reincarnations?

When hundreds of thousands or millions die in a short period of time, do they wait in stages to move on?

What determines how you are reincarnated is it a choice?

Are we talking rebirth or Reincarnation?

How many times have you been reincarnated?

How is it that most people with past life experiences were famous back then?

How many more times will you be reincarnated?

Lastly, spent the last few days in Phoenix...did you get that wind on Thursday??

 

[GlorytoGod]

I remember taking a lot of LSD years ago at a party, and it was like I lived through that same party many times but each time playing a different character. LOL

 

[nativeastral]

I remember taking a lot of LSD years ago at a party, and it was like I lived through that same party many times but each time playing a different character. LOL

thats tripped out flashbacks! theres many who turned psychotic after that..

 

[citizenzen]

thats tripped out flashbacks! theres many who turned psychotic after that..

The value of LSD is not in any specific experience.

The value of LSD is that it shows us perception is conditional and can be shifted in dramatic ways.

We never look at "real" life, the life we'd been taught to see, quite the same way again.

But the wildest trip I ever took, the most mind-blowing of highs, was experienced sober, sitting on a cushion, meditating.

LSD can kick you out of the nest, but there are better ways to fly.

 

[Thomas]

is reincarnation literal ?
or it merely a miss-understanding of spiritual laws that are beyond our comprehension?

I would suggest in any paradigm our eschatalogical state is a matter of speculative rather than literal truth ... unless you happen to hold the sacra doctrina of that paradigm as axiomatic, in which case one regards the data therein as literally true, even if that to which it alludes is obscure.

Thus many perspectives would argue that certain assumptions of the eschaton itself can be taken as true by virtue of what is believed of its source. Thus for Christians the words of Christ are considered reliable, indeed infallible. And the same goes, I would assume, for the Buddhist — the Buddha is evidence of the truth of the Dharma, if I can say that.

The critical distinction, for the Christian, is the place of the person in the eschaton. Christianity implies it is central. Buddhism and other traditions would seem to imply it is peripheral, and perhaps illusory, the person is not the essence of the existing being, but the accidental phenomena of existence.

Thus Christianity, with its intense focus on the soul, and thereby the person, cannot but refute 'reincarnation' in which the soul appears to have undergone such change as it is not the self it was, it is now another self, another — and other — soul, by which the person is again accidental in regard to whatever it is that reincarnates; the same person does not reappear, one reincarnates as a different person.

Christianity, of course, has resurrection. In this doctrine the selfsame soul and thus the selfsame person are brought back into material existence, something, as I understand it, that Buddhists refute.

Quite how resurrection will work is a mystery that, at present, lies beyond the veil, but as the Christian regards the kerygma contained within Scripture as revealed truths and infallibly guaranteed, albeit obscurely, we can have faith in the fact that the resurrection will be, when it happens, a literal reality, a reincarnation under precise conditions which other doctrines seem to reject.

As St Paul points out, if there is no resurrection, then our faith and our lives have been for nothing. Sadly (for us) if reincarnation, as understood (as I understand it) in the Asiatic Traditions is true, then we've got the wrong end of the stick ... and it's a long, long stick.

So I would say whether or not it is true, and if true how it is true, depends upon what paradigm you embrace.

Thomas

 

[Nick the Pilot]

"Does everyone reincarnate?"

--> Yes.

"Where did so many people come from?"

--> This question can be answered in many ways. I think you are asking about the continuing increase in population. It has been said that there are many ‘souls’ waiting to be born. I think it will be a long time before we run out of souls looking for bodies to reincarnate into.

"Do souls join? split?"

--> No.

"Where is the waiting station, what form are we in between reincarnations?"

--> The Transition is little complicated, but not too complicagted. First the physical body dies, and we then exist in our astral bodies. Then our astral body dies (in what is referred to as the Second Death), and we then become conscioius in what is called our mental body. This is the wonderful and joyful place called Heaven. Then, when we are ready for another ‘field trip,’ we reincarnate again.

"When hundreds of thousands or millions die in a short period of time, do they wait in stages to move on?"

--> No. They merely have to Transtion into their next reincarnation.

"What determines how you are reincarnated is it a choice?"

--> It is a balance between one’s good and bad karma, and general level of maturity and spirituality. The more mature and spiritual a person is, the more choice they have in when and where they next reincarnate.

"Are we talking rebirth or Reincarnation?"

--> Reincarnation. Rebirth is a word only used by Buddhists. It refers to the Buddhist belief that we do not have a soul. The only difference between the two words is that reincarnation refers to the travel of the soul between incarnations, while rebirth refers such travel without a soul. Otherwise, the two words mean the same thing.

"How many times have you been reincarnated?"

--> I have been told that I have reincarnated many times, but I only remember events from one previous incarnation. Events from other incarnations (most notably as a Tibetan monk) have been described to me. It must be emphasized that not remembering past lives is usually a good thing.

"How is it that most people with past life experiences were famous back then?"

--> I would not say that most people with past life experiences were as famous people. There is a lot more remembering of past lives that is going on, but many of these people do not share their experiences with the outside world -- for good reason. Many people do ‘recall’ past lives as famous people, but I do not believe many of these stories.

Here is a good website.

Carol Bowman - Past Life Center

"How many more times will you be reincarnated?"

Two or three, depending on the degree of success of my present incarnation. Success is very much judged in degrees of success. It is not a 100% pass or fail, as some religious people would have us think.

"Lastly, spent the last few days in Phoenix...did you get that wind on Thursday??"

--> The wind is blowing strongly outside, even now as I type this. I hope your trip went well.

~~~

I enjoy the belief of reincarnation because it makes absolute, perfect, logical sense. I can see no flaw in the concept whatsoever. I invite everyone to ask questions on the topic.

 

[shawn]

I have heard that "the church" (not sure which aspects) taught reincarnation up until the 15th century, but I have no supporting links to provide, it is just something I have heard and considered it worthy of repeating.

I personally believe in reincarnation, but not the way the Hindu's or Buddhists teach it.
I don't try to understand it technically, as who knows what is after death, (and it is pointless to fixate on something that is unknowable).
Not one single human knows the answer to this one.
If you say you do, you're lying.
We are all speculating here.
But, reasoning it through, I have concluded that it (reincarnation of a sort) is the most likely of the probabilities.
Basic reasoning goes like this:
IMO, we are spiritual beings inhabiting a body, a form, like a space suit, and as such we are eternal (whatever that really means) but ostensibly, not really bound by time and space other than through our interface/bodies.
Why? is a damn good question which I have had many lengthy conversations with a variety of people about over the years and my conclusions can be summarized in 2 options.
Either this place is a school for living beings as we are going through some kind of process;
or, this is some kind of prison for living beings.
I lean towards the school side, but there is argument which makes good points for the other possibility.
In any case, since we are eternal (IMO) what better place to journey through than the world without end (the universe) which is full of billions of galaxies with trillions of stars and planets without number.
Just because our limited and primitive tech hasn't verified life "out there" doesn't mean spit.
It is arrogant (even stupid) to presume there is nought but us.
And who is to say we are required to come back to this planet?
Or that we even came from this one?
Perhaps we lived our previous life (lives) elsewhere, and for reasons yet unknown we are here now.

 

[Thomas]

Hi Shawn —

I have heard that "the church" (not sure which aspects) taught reincarnation up until the 15th century,

Depends which 'church'? But if you mean Christian churches, then no, they never taught reincarnation.

but I have no supporting links to provide, it is just something I have heard and considered it worthy of repeating.

Not really. It's a piece of fabrication put about by various pro-reincarnation groups for various self-serving reasons, but with no substance.

If you say you do, you're lying.

Your certainty of being the benchmark of all human knowledge is somewhat startling, I have to admit. I would have thought the idea that no-one can possibly know anything you don't already know would be a self-fulfilling prophesy on the basis that you will never learn anything new?

For example, the two options you list are just two among many, and both those were quite 'reasonably' and 'logically' disposed of by Christian philosophy about 1500 years ago.

Thomas

 

[wil]

I don't try to understand it technically, as who knows what is after death, (and it is pointless to fixate on something that is unknowable).
Not one single human knows the answer to this one.
If you say you do, you're lying.
We are all speculating here..

I agree. We may have our beliefs or follow a particular religion that states this or that... But it is all conjecture.

Hi Shawn —

Depends which 'church'? But if you mean Christian churches, then no, they never taught reincarnation.

Now that blanket statement is worse than Shawn's. Not putting words in your mouth, but I guess if anyone pointed to a Christian Church that did teach reincarnation or the potential or possibility of same...you would simply deny that they are Christian by that act?

for references and for folks to look around on their own ... christians and reincarnation - Google Search