Why is ideology like a prism?

[wil]

I can accept that cause holds its own problematic issues. But flying an airplane full of innocent bystanders into a building full of more innocent bystanders because one's ideology won't allow room for any others to even draw breath is far more incindiary than anything Bush could have ever said.

Were Hiroshima and Nagasaki military targets? How many innocent bystanders there?

I cannot fathom the frustration level of individuals who resort to any of these tactics.

 

[shawn]

I agree with Juan on what ideologies are.
Saying ideologies are the problem is like saying theologies are a problem.
People have ideas about things sure.
Some of them are really bad ideas.
But not all ideas are bad.
So maybe try saying that bad ideologies are a problem.
This thread is a symptom of bad semantics and improper usage of language.

 

[Paladin]

Were Hiroshima and Nagasaki military targets? How many innocent bystanders there?

I cannot fathom the frustration level of individuals who resort to any of these tactics.

And let's not forget the firebombing of civilian targets that was done before the big bombs were dropped.

 

[juantoo3]

Thermite does amazing things doesn't it?

Yep, amazing what one can do with iron oxide (common rust) and aluminum oxide (common corrosion).

Hmmm, come to think of it, there could have been plenty of both readily available without any conspiracy issues...

 

[juantoo3]

And let's not forget the firebombing of civilian targets that was done before the big bombs were dropped.

Allied or Axis? European front or Pacific front?

WWII was exceptional in that nobody followed the rules of "Just War." Civilians were legitimate targets from very early on in that war. America was simply fortunate enough that we were isolated enough that there were no serious attempts on our shores. There were only something like 6 deaths to a family having a picnic in Oregon, most of which were children. Most of the Japanese firebombs never made it to our shores.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_balloon

 

[juantoo3]

Were Hiroshima and Nagasaki military targets? How many innocent bystanders there?

I know my views are not well appreciated on this, but militarily and tactically at that point in time with everything that led up to that moment...yes, they were legitimate military targets.

It is estimated that over a million American lives and two million Japanese lives *were spared* because of the dropping of those two bombs and the incineration of something like two hundred thousand people.

The bombs killed as many as 140,000 people in Hiroshima and 80,000 in Nagasaki by the end of 1945,[4] roughly half on the days of the bombings. Amongst these, 15 to 20% died from injuries or illness attributed to radiation poisoning[5]. Since then, more have died from leukemia (231 observed) and solid cancers (334 observed) attributed to exposure to radiation released by the bombs[6]. In both cities, the overwhelming majority of the dead were civilians.[7][8][9]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki

Now, the thread could slip into some vilification of war, but I suspect that none of us here discussing this were alive at that time. What is more, none of us here slogged through the trenches on barren islands that reeked of sulfer or marched for a thousand miles with Japanese bayonets at our back or held our buddy's head in our lap helpless to do anything as life slowly drained from his eyes. Seems to me that unless one has the capacity to actually make such heartrending decisions, they really haven't any business criticizing those who did.

Of course, there is that little thing called freedom of speech. Too bad there is no requirement for that to be tempered with common sense or a dose of reality.

The warriors know and understand where I am coming from. Without them, the rest have no freedoms whatsoever. Freedom isn't free, something peaceniks will never understand. How's that for ideology?

Or maybe it would be better if half of America now spoke German and the other half Japanese? All saying "Zeig Heil! Zeig Heil!," and goosestepping?

 

[juantoo3]

This thread is a symptom of bad semantics and improper usage of language.

Bingo!

Of course, it remains that some deliberately use bad semantics and improper use of language to mask their true motives. That is what Orwell was on about with Newspeak...it was a language deliberately intended to squelch the reasoning and thinking process, people heard and responded in pre-trained ways to what they were told without considering repercussions of their actions.

 

[shawn]

I spent time about 15 years ago doing promotions for the agricultural uses of hemp and of the hundreds of people I talked with I was amazed at how so many had this negative imagery firmly entrenched in their minds.
I would be talking about hemp (strictly agricultural) and people would get some imagery in their minds about hippies and cheech and chong and all the rest, and so I would spend enormous amounts of time working at helping them to see that there are actually separate issues involved.
It is interesting to see a negative PR program at work and the actual damage it has done to the knowledge base of the majority of the population.
Actually, not interesting, disgusting is more the correct adjective.
And it is still wreaking havoc throughout the world.
Hey, there is an example of the prismatic effect of the ideology of one's take on certain plants.

 

[juantoo3]

Oooooh, yeah....

A quick look around this site would demonstrate a few key buzzwords that instantly evoke responses of the kind that cannot be logically reasoned with. "Taboo" doesn't even begin to describe the intense reaction some words evoke.