Obama Youth Brigade

N

Nick_A

Guest
We can only have one messiah. Why would people be surprised that Obama would discourage others?

Obama Youth Brigade: Church Attendance Forbidden

Why should the Obama youth Brigade worship as they choose? This is a direct insult to the messiah.


Is this the change you really voted for? President Obama has only been in office for two months. Now we have HR 1388. The Bill was sponsored by Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY) with 37 others. The Bill was introduced to the floor of the House of Representatives where both Republicans and Democrats voted 321-105 in favor. Next it goes to the Senate for a vote and then on to President Obama.

This bill’s title is called “Generations Invigorating Volunteerism and Education” (GIVE). It forms what some are calling “Obama’s Youth Brigade.” Obama’s plan is require anyone receiving school loans and others to serve at least three months as part of the brigade. His goal is one million youth! This has serious Nazi Germany overtones to it.

The Bill would forbid any student in the brigade to participate in “engaging in religious instruction, conducting worship services, providing instruction as part of a program that includes mandatory religious instruction or worship, constructing or operating facilities devoted to religious instruction or worship, maintaining facilities primarily or inherently devoted to religious instruction or worship, or engaging in any form of religious proselytization.” That means no church attendance or witnessing.

Again, is this what America voted for? Here is part of the HR1388 Bill’s wording:

SEC. 1304. PROHIBITED ACTIVITIES AND INELIGIBLE ORGANIZATIONS.

Section 125 (42 U.S.C. 12575) is amended to read as follows:

SEC. 125. PROHIBITED ACTIVITIES AND INELIGIBLE ORGANIZATIONS.

(a) Prohibited Activities- A participant in an approved national service position under this subtitle may not engage in the following activities:

(1) Attempting to influence legislation.

(2) Organizing or engaging in protests, petitions, boycotts, or strikes.
…
(7) Engaging in religious instruction, conducting worship services, providing instruction as part of a program that includes mandatory religious instruction or worship, constructing or operating facilities devoted to religious instruction or worship, maintaining facilities primarily or inherently devoted to religious instruction or worship, or engaging in any form of religious proselytization.
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There is only one messiah and the youth brigade cannot contemplate others. It is too insulting. Think of the affect such divided loyalty could have on the Obama choir?
 
The requirements are what qualifies as civil service.

ie you join the military or you join some charitable org building houses or americorp or the like...

but you can't get your service requirement fulfilled by promoting religion or lobbying congress...etc.

You can still do this stuff on your own time...just not for the organization you are fulfilling your civil service requirement with...

I see no issues.

I like it.
 
A quote from Nick's article, "This has serious Nazi Germany overtones to it."

No bias there. :rolleyes:
 
Nick... you are verging on the psychotic the way you hunt down and drag up any bit of twisted crap to embody your hatred for the black man in office. The cumulative effect of your campaign has only lent him more credibility to me. Because if that is the best someone so possessed with the intent of diminishing can find then there seems to be nothing real to fault him on.
 
Tao_Equus said:
Nick... you are verging on the psychotic the way you hunt down and drag up any bit of twisted crap to embody your hatred for the black man in office. The cumulative effect of your campaign has only lent him more credibility to me. Because if that is the best someone so possessed with the intent of diminishing can find then there seems to be nothing real to fault him on.
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What can I tell you. I know about indoctrination techniques. The only reason it wouldn't be illegal is because it is voluntary. These are kids. They are not in civil service to a secular state for the purpose of indoctrination. They don't serve their church on their own time since while they are in the brigade they don't have their own time.

Obama Youth Brigade: Church Attendance Forbidden

Scary stuff. The problem isn't if Obama is black on the outside but rather black on the inside. This is pure attempted indoctrination. Hopefully parents and institutions not yet having lost their sanity or respect for a free society will support balanced education and alternative funding.
 
Nick_A said:
What can I tell you. I know about indoctrination techniques. The only reason it wouldn't be illegal is because it is voluntary. These are kids. They are not in civil service to a secular state for the purpose of indoctrination. They don't serve their church on their own time since while they are in the brigade they don't have their own time.

Obama Youth Brigade: Church Attendance Forbidden

Scary stuff. The problem isn't if Obama is black on the outside but rather black on the inside. This is pure attempted indoctrination. Hopefully parents and institutions not yet having lost their sanity or respect for a free society will support balanced education and alternative funding.
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Ah, Nick, the clause re religious activities in conjunction with this probably relates to the Constitutional separation of church and state. Noticed in that link that indicated that both Democrats and Republicans in the House voted for it. The only attempts at indoctrinating I'm seeing is your knee-jerk, irrational, exaggerated and biased views of anything Obama is linked to. That mind-set is the scarey one. You actually make Rush Limbaugh sound like an objective observer.:p
 
As a former Americorps member, I can tell you that the prohibitions against influencing legislation and political activism in official capacity as an Americorps member are long-standing; however, if an individual wished to influence legislation or engage in political activism as an individual (i.e. separate from their time and duties within the organization), they may do that as any other citizen. In short, these kinds of prohibitions for people volunteering in an official capacity for the government are nothing new.

The "Obama Youth Brigade" label seems to be nothing more than a phrase cooked up to evoke knee-jerk terror in people. The "Hitler Youth" overtones are obvious and ridiculous.
 
Nick, here is the portion of the bill you are referring to. Organizations calling themselves "youth groups" cannot have group activities listed below and expect to feed at the trough of government grant money: note the part highlighted in blue:

SEC. 125. PROHIBITED ACTIVITIES AND INELIGIBLE ORGANIZATIONS.


  • `(a) Prohibited Activities- A participant in an approved national service position under this subtitle may not engage in the following activities:

    • `(1) Attempting to influence legislation.

    • `(2) Organizing or engaging in protests, petitions, boycotts, or strikes.

    • `(3) Assisting, promoting, or deterring union organizing.

    • `(4) Impairing existing contracts for services or collective bargaining agreements.

    • `(5) Engaging in partisan political activities, or other activities designed to influence the outcome of an election to any public office.

    • `(6) Participating in, or endorsing, events or activities that are likely to include advocacy for or against political parties, political platforms, political candidates, proposed legislation, or elected officials.

    • `(7) Engaging in religious instruction, conducting worship services, providing instruction as part of a program that includes mandatory religious instruction or worship, constructing or operating facilities devoted to religious instruction or worship, maintaining facilities primarily or inherently devoted to religious instruction or worship, or engaging in any form of religious proselytization.

    • `(8) Providing a direct benefit to--

      • `(A) a business organized for profit;

      • `(B) a labor organization;

      • `(C) a partisan political organization;

      • `(D) a nonprofit organization that fails to comply with the restrictions contained in section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 except that nothing in this section shall be construed to prevent participants from engaging in advocacy activities undertaken at their own initiative; and

      • `(E) an organization engaged in the religious activities described in paragraph (7), unless Corporation assistance is not used to support those religious activities.

    • `(9) Conducting a voter registration drive or using Corporation funds to conduct a voter registration drive.

    • `(10) Such other activities as the Corporation may prohibit.

  • `(b) Ineligible Organizations- No assistance provided under this subtitle may be provided to the following types of organizations (including the participation of a participant in an approved national service position under this subtitle in activities conducted by such organizations) or to organizations that are co-located on the same premises as the following organizations:

    • `(1) Organizations that provide or promote abortion services, including referral for such services.

    • `(2) For-profit organizations, political parties, labor organizations, or organizations engaged in political or legislative advocacy.

    • `(3) Organizations that have been indicted for voter fraud.

  • `(c) Nondisplacement of Employed Workers or Other Volunteers- A participant in an approved national service position under this subtitle may not perform any services or duties or engage in activities which--

    • `(1) would otherwise be performed by an employed worker as part of his or her assigned duties as an employee or by another volunteer who is not a participant in an approved national service position; or

    • `(2) will supplant the hiring of employed workers or work of such other volunteers.'.
 
Namaste Pathless and Seattlegal,

Your comments do not fit the paradigm attempting to be portrayed. Please do not let the facts cloud your judgement.

Nick regarding choir logic, are you not aware that the choir you are singing with is out of tune with reality?
 
Nick_A, it's interesting - you've come up with a range of highly emotive claims against Barack Obama recently, so I ran a search on the politics board.

I couldn't find a single thread started by you attacking the policies of George W Bush or the Republican party.

Instead, you've posted material from pro-Republican sources, and give every impression that you are a Republican supporter and a very fringe one at that - making extreme claims that mainstream Republicans wouldn't even dare to entertain.

Now, while it's up to the individual to support whatever legitimate party they choose, I'm aware that US politics is much more interested in marketing propaganda online.

And here's an individual that shows no interest in general politics, but instead appears solely interested in pushing a single party political agenda.

Does that mean that I should be concerned that an individual is using these forums as a marketing platform for a particular political party? Perhaps, perhaps not.

What does concern me is when that individual appears to be posting purposefully misleading and inflammatory material in order to achieve party political ends, and that does worry me.

So, Nick_A, am I getting close?
 
I said:
Does that mean that I should be concerned that an individual is using these forums as a marketing platform for a particular political party? Perhaps, perhaps not.

What does concern me is when that individual appears to be posting purposefully misleading and inflammatory material in order to achieve party political ends, and that does worry me.

So, Nick_A, am I getting close?
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I'm quite willing to give Nick the benefit of the doubt.

True believers are indistinguishable from party operatives.

It's up to us to be smart consumers when listening to sales pitches.
 
I said:
Nick_A, it's interesting - you've come up with a range of highly emotive claims against Barack Obama recently, so I ran a search on the politics board.

I couldn't find a single thread started by you attacking the policies of George W Bush or the Republican party....

....What does concern me is when that individual appears to be posting purposefully misleading and inflammatory material in order to achieve party political ends, and that does worry me.

So, Nick_A, am I getting close?
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But the most interesting part of it all, like mee, I don't believe Nick has swayed a soul. Actually quite the opposite.
 
I said:
Nick_A, it's interesting - you've come up with a range of highly emotive claims against Barack Obama recently, so I ran a search on the politics board.

I couldn't find a single thread started by you attacking the policies of George W Bush or the Republican party.

Instead, you've posted material from pro-Republican sources, and give every impression that you are a Republican supporter and a very fringe one at that - making extreme claims that mainstream Republicans wouldn't even dare to entertain.

Now, while it's up to the individual to support whatever legitimate party they choose, I'm aware that US politics is much more interested in marketing propaganda online.

And here's an individual that shows no interest in general politics, but instead appears solely interested in pushing a single party political agenda.

Does that mean that I should be concerned that an individual is using these forums as a marketing platform for a particular political party? Perhaps, perhaps not.

What does concern me is when that individual appears to be posting purposefully misleading and inflammatory material in order to achieve party political ends, and that does worry me.

So, Nick_A, am I getting close?
Click to expand...

Brian

Your trouble is not being able to separate politics from what promotes ethics.

My concern is basic and transcends politics but refers to what I always refer to which is namely the struggle between the Great Beast and the conscious transcendent influences that must occur when a society has freedom as its goal.

The Obama Youth corps is an unconscious attempt to strengthen the mindset of the Beast. The Beast is here defined as that which unconsciously takes the place of transcendent conscious influences.

The idea of communal service is a good one but must be the function of the states and church groups. it cannot be the function of a federal govt. that will always have The goals of the Great Beast as its primary objective. It has always been that way before and will always be there in the future which is the normal. The youth are important to the future and must be indoctrinated into the agenda of the Beast. The other side of the coin which you have no comprehension of is that this mentality kills the spirit and without the objective openness to higher conscious influences kept alive even through the exoteric spiritual influences, will invariably produce struggles for power that can only be resolved by loss of freedom.

This is why you cannot understand Simone. She was a brilliant Communist and admired by Leon Trotsky. Her objectivity and willingness to admit her experiences recognized just this flaw and that people will inevitably suffer a great deal because of this mindset that includes indoctrinating kids and taking over the function of parents, states, and the churches.

I'm no fan of George Bush or Republicans that have abandoned our borders and gone on a spending spree that would make any teen girl in a mall green with envy. Do you want to defend Bush's immigration policy against me in debate? If I ever get involved with a political party it would only be one that advertises itself as having character and balls. The Republicans have sold out and revealed with some exceptions, their collective lack of character and balls.

You believe in Secular Interfaith which is why you cannot recognize this basic struggle that persists between what is known allegorically as God and the Beast where God refers to as the conscious influences originating from above and the Beast refers to self glorification arising from reactive life attached to the collective.

What does concern me is when that individual appears to be posting purposefully misleading and inflammatory material in order to achieve party political ends, and that does worry me.
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All this means is that you haven't a clue as to what this is about, have no conception as to the essential psychological struggle being referred to, and unwilling to do anything other then make ad hom attacks to compensate for your ignorance.

That is a shame but life goes on.
 
wil said:
But the most interesting part of it all, like mee, I don't believe Nick has swayed a soul. Actually quite the opposite.
Click to expand...

You are trapped in this mindset that the purpose is always salesmanship: creating an image. The idea of attempting to place the dynamics on the table for consideration seems meaningless but in reality it is how those open to such an attempt begin to appreciate the depth of reality.

You seek to influence while I seek to understand. It is our difference
 
citizenzen said:
I'm quite willing to give Nick the benefit of the doubt.

True believers are indistinguishable from party operatives.

It's up to us to be smart consumers when listening to sales pitches.
Click to expand...

wil said:
But the most interesting part of it all, like mee, I don't believe Nick has swayed a soul. Actually quite the opposite.
Click to expand...

Here hear!!
 
Nick_A said:
Brian

Your trouble is not being able to separate politics from what promotes ethics.

My concern is basic and transcends politics but refers to what I always refer to which is namely the struggle between the Great Beast and the conscious transcendent influences that must occur when a society has freedom as its goal.

The Obama Youth corps is an unconscious attempt to strengthen the mindset of the Beast. The Beast is here defined as that which unconsciously takes the place of transcendent conscious influences.

The idea of communal service is a good one but must be the function of the states and church groups. it cannot be the function of a federal govt. that will always have The goals of the Great Beast as its primary objective. It has always been that way before and will always be there in the future which is the normal. The youth are important to the future and must be indoctrinated into the agenda of the Beast. The other side of the coin which you have no comprehension of is that this mentality kills the spirit and without the objective openness to higher conscious influences kept alive even through the exoteric spiritual influences, will invariably produce struggles for power that can only be resolved by loss of freedom.

This is why you cannot understand Simone. She was a brilliant Communist and admired by Leon Trotsky. Her objectivity and willingness to admit her experiences recognized just this flaw and that people will inevitably suffer a great deal because of this mindset that includes indoctrinating kids and taking over the function of parents, states, and the churches.

I'm no fan of George Bush or Republicans that have abandoned our borders and gone on a spending spree that would make any teen girl in a mall green with envy. Do you want to defend Bush's immigration policy against me in debate? If I ever get involved with a political party it would only be one that advertises itself as having character and balls. The Republicans have sold out and revealed with some exceptions, their collective lack of character and balls.

You believe in Secular Interfaith which is why you cannot recognize this basic struggle that persists between what is known allegorically as God and the Beast where God refers to as the conscious influences originating from above and the Beast refers to self glorification arising from reactive life attached to the collective.



All this means is that you haven't a clue as to what this is about, have no conception as to the essential psychological struggle being referred to, and unwilling to do anything other then make ad hom attacks to compensate for your ignorance.

That is a shame but life goes on.
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And this requires you to post inflammatory exaggerations and falsehoods while ignoring facts why? That seems rather "Beastly" of you.;) Wil is correct I think. Nick is no political operative but a true believer. If he were the former, he wouldn't be engaging in such counter-productively poor communication attempts. But, as a true believer, he sure believes some wacky stuff. earl
 
citizenzen said:
I'm quite willing to give Nick the benefit of the doubt.

True believers are indistinguishable from party operatives.

It's up to us to be smart consumers when listening to sales pitches.
Click to expand...

I was working earlier at a nursing home I am often at and over time have become friendly with this old black singer that used to play in Ray Charles' big band. He always sings a few tunes with me now and even in his late eighties he has an excellent voice. We always BS about music and the business and what has happened to it over time.

People could not do that here since as a whole this secular Interfaith forces people to say the "right" things while me and this kindred spirit are honestly rapping and there is no "right" thing but just what is natural to those that have been in the business.

I would hate to be without this freedom or to look down at people as though they are not open to honesty.

It is hard to tell those genuine from the con artists. Jesus said the same regarding false prophets. But the point is if we are willing to be open to learn how or just defend insult and express righteous indignation. I don't think the bulk of secular Interfaith is willing to be open enough yet it is required for Transcendent Interfaith.

Regardless of personal hardships I can honestly say that "there but for the grace of God go I." I would hate to have had to live by all this political correctness and sacrifice the truly human experiences I've been fortunate to have over the years..
 
Nick,

You do get a hard time here sometimes... but you, like me, set yourself up for it.

I for one respect your individualism and courage in not being daunted by opposition.

But all this Obama stuff has just become so tediously monotonous and sourced so partisanly (yeh I reserve the right to make up my own words), that almost everybody is virtually obliged to say "shut the fork up". Or "Arghhhhhhhhhhh I wanna shoot that mother" or some such thing. With such insubstantial and questionable sourcing you are just a whining irritation. Is that your purpose? So for expletives sake find something substantial or hudd yer wheesht.
 
Tao_Equus said:
Nick,

You do get a hard time here sometimes... but you, like me, set yourself up for it.

I for one respect your individualism and courage in not being daunted by opposition.

But all this Obama stuff has just become so tediously monotonous and sourced so partisanly (yeh I reserve the right to make up my own words), that almost everybody is virtually obliged to say "shut the fork up". Or "Arghhhhhhhhhhh I wanna shoot that mother" or some such thing. With such insubstantial and questionable sourcing you are just a whining irritation. Is that your purpose? So for expletives sake find something substantial or hudd yer wheesht.
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Nick is like the eccentric, somewhat crazed uncle at the family gathering while, Tao, you're like the cranky, curmudgeonly, but loveable brother-in-law. The family wouldn't be quite complete without either of you.:D earl
 
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