Where did love come from?

coberst

Well-Known Member
Messages
427
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Where did love come from?

Plato judged that the basis of love is centered upon the mutual struggle for truth. I claim that the emotion of love in humans is evolved from the mother infant relationship in early mammals.

Occasionally when reading I run across a phrase or sentence or paragraph, which really rings a bell for me. The bell may be recognition of the compatibility of the point to my own conclusions or perhaps the point caused an epiphany, or other reasons. When I encounter such a point I often copy it and store it in a file for later analysis. One such point is as follows: “Platonic idea that the giving and receiving of knowledge, the active formation of another’s character, or the more passive growth under another’s guidance, is the truest and strongest foundation of love”.

My analysis of this sentence led me down a long trail over an extended period of time to an understanding of the meaning of the statement and to an agreement with the meaning of that statement.

When studying philosophy I had read some of Plato’s work and had a slight remembrance of one of his Dialogues in which he dealt with the subject of love. After some study of the particular Dialogue in question and some further study of Plato’s general philosophy I realized what was meant by the point made in the sentence I had saved.

Quickie from Wiki: “Plato constructed the Symposium as a story within a story within a story. This architecture creates the space for Plato to build his philosophy of knowledge. The speech of Socrates points out that the highest purpose of Love is to become a Philosopher, or Lover of Wisdom.”

I often watch the Discovery Channel on TV. As you probably know this channel often has a great documentary on animal life. Their audio/visual presentations give the viewer wonderful insights into the life of animals. Often the animals in question are large mammals such as lions, gorillas, monkeys, etc.

Plato wrote, “An unexamined life is not worth living”. I find this a bit hyperbolic but nevertheless agree with the general point. Socrates also argued that the giving and receiving of knowledge, the active formation of another’s character, or the more passive growth under another’s guidance, is the truest and strongest foundation of love. Plato/Socrates judged that the basis of love is centered upon the mutual struggle for truth.

I would not attempt to explain why Plato’s Idealistic philosophy leads to this conclusion but I think one can find justification for this point of view by considering the nature of the parent to progeny relationship. Considering the nature of evolution one might easily discover that the origin of love could be observed in the obvious relationship of present day mammals. The educational relationship between the animal mother and their progeny are evident to the most casual observer.

Evolutionary Psychology is based on the theory that all human psychological traits, such as love, must be traceable to our evolutionary ancestors. The source of love in humans is evolved from the mother infant relationship in early mammals (perhaps).

What do you judge to be the primordial animal source (assuming an acceptance of the validity of Darwin’s theory of natural selection) for the emotion of love in humans?
 
yes l agree, where else?

from Sophia: Goddess of Wisdom & God's Bride


Sophia
Channeled by Gillian MacBeth-Louthan​
I am the She-ness of All that is, I am Sophia. I am the breath of that which you have spoken. I am the breath that is and that is yet to be birthed.
I bring within my words and energies a fulfillment that comes not from the substance of earth, nor from the substance of self. I ask you to taste the sweetness that you are as you kiss the lips of God. I ask you to taste the sweetness that was destined to be your life before you chose the conflict. Come forth into the fullness of your power in this hour of light. Do not wait a fortnight; do not wait another day until the timing is correct in your perceptions. For in the scheme of universal knowledge and the schematics of universal light, there is but this moment. In this moment you need to fill yourself with all that you want to be. Do not talk of what you shall accomplish one day, but fulfill that accomplishment within your mind, within the pictures of your heart and the pictures of your word in this moment, this thought.
In the upcoming time, you will find that many words that you speak will change in enunciation, in meaning, and change in vibration. You will find that as you speak, a gentle hum is heard in your heart as it begins to vibrate with truth so fast that music is created. These are not heart palpitations but the sound of love that hums through the caverns of your being.
I am She that was whispered into existence by the mouth of God. I am sometimes seen as Shekinah, the holy breath, the Holy Spirit. I am feminine of nature, but not always depicted as such. I come forth with the vibration and the teachings of the ancient Magdalenes. You birth a New World on this day by believing. You birth a great white hope that lives so deeply in your cell memory that you have not yet seen it in your world. You birth on this day a completion as you spiral and dance around all layers and faces of your soul and of yourself finally landing in climax within the oceans of your being. I am that which is yet to be found within you. I am the sacred feminine that you seek but do not always see reflected in the mirror of your life. I am the sacred face of the feminine light of God and I come to heal you as I come to birth myself.
The essence of Sophia (Ma-RI) has lived by many names and each one of them you have donned as a costume in the masquerade of life. You came in this time holding an encoding that will be released in these upcoming times. It is that sacred number, that sacred sound, that sacred geometry and color of the Wild Woman untamed Goddess within you that you allowed to be birthed in fullness for me and through me.
It is time for you to celebrate everything about you for every one of you is a strand in the tapestry of my cloak of light. The doorway opens for you to see and to celebrate. Some days the celebration will be in a place of loneliness and other days it will be in a large beautiful group, but it matters not. Your life needs to be a celebration of who you want to be and who you know you are. Strip off the weather coatings that you wear as protection and allow your glorious beautiful self to be seen in the fullness of time. Do not be afraid of your emotions or your angers or your passions. Do not be afraid of your wild hair days.
If you would sound my sound in your heart, it will help you to heal for it comes as an elixir, as an amendment to all the rules of order that you were forced to follow from time beginning. Say my name softly to yourself – Sophia — Sophia – Sophia. Does it not soothe the thorns of your being? For in that sound is a memory and in that memory you are very close to home.
I thank you for being who you are. You have never allowed others to break your spirit even though there were times when you teetered very close to that. Do not allow anyone to take of your heart. You can give it all that you want, but do not let others take your dreams or your desires. Give and give and give. That is the doorway to the greatest healing of all. Invite me into your day, into the morn, into the night. I will escort you into passageways that you have forgotten. Run bare-footed in the temples of your past. Allow me to escort you into all that you are for it is a place of completion that you come home to. I am Sophia as are you.
http://www.thequantumawakening.com/current_newsletter.htm for January 2005
 
I suspect that like all of natural selection that the better the bond between the nurturing mother and the infant the more likely the survival of the infant and thus those mutations that helped this bonding became part of the gene pool.
 
You might like this article:
Dull days wreck a marriage faster than fighting - TODAY Health
090518-petscan-vmed-9a.standard.jpg

A PET scan of person in love shows a brain region linked to feelings of reward, known as the ventral tegmental area, lighting up.
 
Where did love come from?

Plato judged that the basis of love is centered upon the mutual struggle for truth. I claim that the emotion of love in humans is evolved from the mother infant relationship in early mammals.
I think it is helpful to think of love not as an emotion, but as a motivational state. Agape or Compassion as generalized motivation is probably more influenced by ideas than by how we feel about individuals.
 
You might like this article:
Dull days wreck a marriage faster than fighting - TODAY Health
090518-petscan-vmed-9a.standard.jpg

A PET scan of person in love shows a brain region linked to feelings of reward, known as the ventral tegmental area, lighting up.
Maternal attachment and romantic love don't seem to be the same neurologically, so it's hard to argue that a child's attachment to mother is analogous to a romantic interest, let alone that matenal attachment predicts a universalized Buddhist Compassion or Agape that does not involve an expectation of feelings of reward.

Btw, based on rat studies, a Dutch team (van Furth & van Ree) concluded that the ventral tegmental area pertains to "sexual motivation and/or reward." From that perspective, we might deduce that people who like each other sexually are likely to be interested in each other, which is not much of a revelation. Partners who become bored with each other would be those who no longer find each other sexually exciting. This seems rather redundant description of the permutations of sexual bonding.
 
Maternal attachment and romantic love don't seem to be the same neurologically, so it's hard to argue that a child's attachment to mother is analogous to a romantic interest, let alone that matenal attachment predicts a universalized Buddhist Compassion or Agape that does not involve an expectation of feelings of reward.

Btw, based on rat studies, a Dutch team (van Furth & van Ree) concluded that the ventral tegmental area pertains to "sexual motivation and/or reward." From that perspective, we might deduce that people who like each other sexually are likely to be interested in each other, which is not much of a revelation. Partners who become bored with each other would be those who no longer find each other sexually exciting. This seems rather redundant description of the permutations of sexual bonding.
A case of looking for love in all the wrong places? (Craving ain't love, in other words.)
 
From the "Dull Days..." article:
And suddenly she could recall the spirited and intelligent man she’d chosen to marry so long ago.

“He looked so happy,” says the 57-year-old doctor from Palo Alto, Calif. “I was astounded. And, oh my God, you should see him on a horse — he looks so good.”
I'm not so sure this is an example of novel experiences and surprises keeping things interesting/exciting in a marriage. It seems more like an example of having expectations to make good things happen based on a current achievement and based on the long term stability of factors relevant to the ability to make good things happen. In fact, the 'new experience' appears as a confirmation of the wife's prior expectations regarding the husband's adaptive traits and energy level.

In this case, the wife's positive expectations are maintained by the perception that the husband is healthy ("you should see him on a horse — he looks so good.") In other words, this is a case of the wife's hopes being raised by positive expectations for the husband's functional level.

Based on this shared efficacy principle, I'd expect lower satisfaction for couples who feel like they are not able to depend on their partner to help make good things happen. This would become apparent in fairly basic ways like not being to negotiate household tasks or child care responsibilities. It can also include the spouse's ability or apparent inability to adapt to changing family life cycle - like when the couple makes a transition into parenthood, medical uncertainty, financial trouble, and other life stresses. It's not that people necessarily like new challenges. It's that those challenges have confirmatory value in revealing the partner as a trustworthy resource and stabilizing influence.

Craving ain't love, in other words.
I think people want to be able to look forward to good things happening and they want to be able to depend on their partner to help make them happen. I think Faith is to some degree a way of seeing a partnership with G-d - where G-d helps the person overcome obstacles and ambiguities and shows the way to real progress, completeness, and fulfillment.
 
I actually have a lot of homework to do regarding neurotransmitters and hormones, and bonding and other behavior. With the mention of mother child bonding, I'm investigating oxytocin and the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis, looking for clues regarding this.
Neurologically, people who are romantically involved look a lot like people on cocaine. Maybe extrapolate about the nature of romantic love based on neuro imaging studies of cocaine addicts?
 
Neurologically, people who are romantically involved look a lot like people on cocaine. Maybe extrapolate about the nature of romantic love based on neuro imaging studies of cocaine addicts?
More craving investigations. :D

It doesn't explain the mother-child bond, however.
 
More craving investigations. :D

It doesn't explain the mother-child bond, however.
Naturally occurring and mutually activated opioid reactions?

Maybe certain drugs produce exaggerated versions (intensifications) of opioid reactions that are actually pretty much happening all the time?

I'd interested in what you find on infant attachment in relation to endogenous opioids that influence mu receptors.
 
Naturally occurring and mutually activated opioid reactions?

Maybe certain drugs produce exaggerated versions (intensifications) of opioid reactions that are actually pretty much happening all the time?

I'd interested in what you find on infant attachment in relation to endogenous opioids that influence mu receptors.
LOL! Now you sound like I did for the first few days after giving birth!
 
what does the Bible say ?

1 John 4:7-13 (New International Version)

7Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God.
Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.
8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9
This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son[a] into the world that we might live through him.
10This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for[b] our sins. 11Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.
12No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.
 
Does that mean you've lost interest in the matter since then?
Actually, this is quite interesting. It's quite a bit for me to wrap my head around at the moment. I guess I'm off to investigate enkephalin, beta-endorphin and dynorphin level similarities between mothers and their newborns compared to a random control group.
 
Back
Top