What is Salvation?

Discussion in 'Theology' started by lunamoth, Aug 12, 2009.

  1. Mesenja

    Mesenja New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2009
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    Knowledge is necessary for salvation


    Knowledge is necessary to life and godliness. Woe unto you priests and divines who preach that knowledge is not necessary unto life and salvation. Take away Apostles,etc.,take away knowledge,and you will find yourselves worthy of the damnation of hell. Knowledge is revelation. Hear,all ye brethren,this grand key:knowledge is the power of God unto salvation.” Joseph Smith,Jr.

    Knowledge does away with darkness suspense and doubt;for these cannot exist where knowledge is. … In knowledge there is power. God has more power than all other beings,because He has greater knowledge;and hence He knows how to subject all other beings to Him. He has power over all.” Joseph Smith,Jr.

    As far as we degenerate from God,we descend to the devil and lose knowledge,and without knowledge we cannot be saved,and while our hearts are filled with evil,and we are studying evil,there is no room in our hearts for good,or studying good. Is not God good? Then you be good;if He is faithful,then you be faithful. Add to your faith virtue,to virtue knowledge,and seek for every good thing." Joseph Smith,Jr.

    “… A man is saved no faster than he gets knowledge,for if he does not get knowledge,he will be brought into captivity by some evil power in the other world,as evil spirits will have more knowledge,and consequently more power than many men who are on the earth. Hence it needs revelation to assist us,and give us knowledge of the things of God.”
    Joseph Smith,Jr.

    Joseph Smith taught the following in April 1843,later recorded in Doctrine and Covenants 130:18-19:“Whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life,it will rise with us in the resurrection. And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another,he will have so much the advantage in the world to come.”

    Joseph Smith taught the following in May 1843,later recorded in Doctrine and Covenants 131:6:“It is impossible for a man to be saved in ignorance.”
     
  2. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    21,270
    Likes Received:
    1,689
    Namaste Mesenja,

    I appreciate your input, but do you have any thoughts of your own on these subjects?

    Cutting and pasting to supplant and validate your thinking is welcome....
     
  3. Gatekeeper

    Gatekeeper Shades of Reason

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,330
    Likes Received:
    39
    There are different types of salvation in my mind, so I'll focus on the type we can have in this life. Salvation to me is Liberty/Freedom from a life entangled in chaos and despair. It is hitting the mark set before us ... peace, love, joy, etc. In my mind there are few that are saved simply because of the way the world is and how we deal with life issues.

    Even so, I truly believe that there are some who can claim this kind of Liberty/Freedom/Salvation in the now, where they have become grateful and happy with life and what they have no matter how little.

    Personal salvation and the kingdom 'condition' is finding happiness, contentment, joy, and peace within ourselves. It is a state of mind derived from gratitude. It is knowing, giving, and receiving love in its purest form.

    GK
     
  4. Gatekeeper

    Gatekeeper Shades of Reason

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,330
    Likes Received:
    39
    "Salvation" is not a matter of chance; it is a matter of choice. It is not a thing to be waited for; it is a thing to be achieved. (Kinda like "destiny") William Jennings Bryan :p
     
  5. Mesenja

    Mesenja New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2009
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    I posted my beliefs

    Subsequently they are my thoughts albeit not in my own words.

     
  6. horiturk

    horiturk New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    salvation is being saved from yourself,since you yourself are not an authority in the grand scheme of things. salvation is going to/being brought to communion with God and raising your consciousness and self knowledge. The side effects are joy,bliss and kindness
     
  7. Ben Masada

    Ben Masada New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2011
    Messages:
    999
    Likes Received:
    1

    IMHO, salvation is the Divine provision to keep one out of trouble with man and God, as Isaiah made it very clear by saying in 1:18,19 that, to set things right with God, so that our sins, from scarlet red, become as white as snow, we must repent and obey. That's salvation from one's sins.

    Now, I believe there is another aspect of salvation as the one from general catastrophes like the Flood, for instance. Soon after the Flood, God established a covenant with Noah, the Noahide Covenant when God promised him never to strike Mankind again with another similar catastrophe. To guarantee His promise, He connected it with the well functioning of the natural laws of seedtime and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, day and night, and so forth. As long as they never ceased on earth, according to Genesis 8:21,22.

    Prophet Jeremiah must have read this text and elaborated further on it by connecting it with the permanent existence of Israel as a People before the Lord forever, as long as the sun is everyday in the sky for a light by day and the moon and stars for lights by night, according to Jeremiah 31:35-37. I wonder if Jesus adopted the same view as he said in John 4:22 that salvation comes from the Jews. Interesting to observe that he did not say, from one among the Jews, but from the Jews, period. Any other thoughts to add?
    Ben
     
  8. Nick the Pilot

    Nick the Pilot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    3,807
    Likes Received:
    61
    "Saved from what?"

    --> I thought I'd give the karma/reincarnation answer to the question. Being "saved" originally meant we save ourselves from having to reincarnate any more (something I am very much looking forward to).
     
  9. Ben Masada

    Ben Masada New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2011
    Messages:
    999
    Likes Received:
    1

    Nick, forgive me here on this one, but reincarnation is completely nonsense. One once dead, one has no more any kind of reward, since even one's memory must be forgotten. That's final. We will have no more any portion for ever in any thing that's done under the sun. (Eccl. 9:5,6)
    Ben
     
  10. Nick the Pilot

    Nick the Pilot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    3,807
    Likes Received:
    61
    Ben,

    I am saddened to hear you declaring my belief system to be nothing but nonsense. You show a great deal of insensitivity to other people's belief systems.
     
  11. Ben Masada

    Ben Masada New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2011
    Messages:
    999
    Likes Received:
    1

    You are mistaken again. I have said nothing from the top of my head. I have only read for you what is written in Ecclesiastes 9:5,6. Didn't Jesus say in John 8:32 that to know the Truth is what sets one free? Then, later, he added that the Truth is the Word of God, according to John 17:17, which was given to Israel only, and to no other people on earth, according to Psalm 147:19,20. As you can see, only what is written. The problem, perhaps, is that you become sensitive when the Scriptures does not go according to your pre-conceived notions.
    Ben
     
  12. Gatekeeper

    Gatekeeper Shades of Reason

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,330
    Likes Received:
    39

    It is also written that the Spirit is truth, so is truth the word (whatever that means to you) or is it Spirit? Jesus also calls the Jews children of Satan. Heck, Jesus said a lot of things against the Jews. Maybe that's why so many reject him. He challenged their piety and likened them to be a bunch of self righteous hypocrites.
     
  13. radarmark

    radarmark Quaker-in-the-Making

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2011
    Messages:
    3,212
    Likes Received:
    2
    How can one pick and choose which of the Scripture to quote literally? John and Psalms are true in a mythical-mystical sense, not literally. As inspired by G!d not as the literal Word of G!d.
     
  14. Gatekeeper

    Gatekeeper Shades of Reason

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,330
    Likes Received:
    39

    I'm of the mind that the writers inspiration came from God, not necessarily what they wrote. God inspired them so they wrote about the inspiration. God inspires us to search for truth, but we are fallible, just as the writers of the scriptures were fallible. Truth can be an elusive thing, but God inspires us to search for it and often times we are also inspired to teach others and write down what our inspiration has led us to believe. I prefer to lean on love instead of my own understanding of "truth". To me, we will never have all the answers, but we can have love, thus we can allow love to guide our every step.


    ~GK~
     
  15. dhillon

    dhillon New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2010
    Messages:
    117
    Likes Received:
    0
    dear members
    true salvation is breaking away from cycles of birth and death.. returning back to godhead, our original eternal home..nothing else is eternal including heaven and hell
     
  16. Etu Malku

    Etu Malku Mercuræn

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2011
    Messages:
    1,439
    Likes Received:
    1
    salvation is the phenomenon of being saved from the undesirable condition of bondage or suffering experienced by the psyche or soul.

    Both bondage and suffering of the soul are subjective to the individual, I for one am not suffering and far from in bondage.

    What is "godhead" to you?
     
  17. Nick the Pilot

    Nick the Pilot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    3,807
    Likes Received:
    61
    Salvation is being saved, but we save ourselves.
     
  18. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    10,549
    Likes Received:
    1,538
    Ah, the old Pelagian argument!

    It rather depends on whether one believes in the Transcendent as, logically, a being cannot transcend its own nature under its own steam.

    God bless,

    Thomas
     
  19. Gatekeeper

    Gatekeeper Shades of Reason

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,330
    Likes Received:
    39

    Isn't humanity inherently "good"? I thought you believed this for some reason. If we are inherently good, then we are not transcending our nature, but rather returning to our original state.
     
  20. NiceCupOfTea

    NiceCupOfTea Pathetic earthlings

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,242
    Likes Received:
    0

    i think its inaccurate to say the Jesus called the Jews, as in all Jews children of satan.

    was he not referring to the particular Jews he was talking with, not all Jews he himself was a Jew.
     

Share This Page