Any social darwinists around here?

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IlluSionS667

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Avinash

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IlluSionS667 said:
I have my own ideology, based on social darwinism and the orriginal national socialism. I am anti-racist, but I do believe that races should be seperated.
Namaskar,

Important parts of your ideology were already tried out in Nazi-Germany, the Soviet Union and South Africa. Don't you feel any discouragement considering the failures these ideologies met with?
 

IlluSionS667

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Avinash said:
Namaskar,

Important parts of your ideology were already tried out in Nazi-Germany, the Soviet Union and South Africa. Don't you feel any discouragement considering the failures these ideologies met with?
I do not see anything of my ideology in South-African history. The only comparison lies with the seperation of cultures. But I also do believe no culture should rule over another and that all cultures should have an independent economy and political freedom. This is a very important aspect of my ideology. This is completely missing in the former South-African situation.

The sovjet union was indeed a cooperative state, but was seriously flawed in some specific areas : people were paid per hour and not for the amount of work they did, there was no competition between companies, state leaders were not always competent enough, they never passed the temporary fase of repression, ... Also missing is an ideological foundation, as the Marxist ideal was rather different from the implementation.

National Socialist Germany did not fail. It was still in it's temporary repressive fase, when it was attacked by Great Britain and France, but was still evolving in a positive way, when it was defeated by these states. They attacked Germany, because they were afraid their countries would follow Germany's example or Hitler and because of zionist pressure. With France, there was another reason : it feared retalliation from the war it won from Germany in 1918.

My ideology mostly resembles the one of NS Germany, however there are some ideological differences. By the ideology of NS Germany, I mean the real ideology of course, and not the lies that have been told about them to demonize them and make them look like monsters.
 

alexa

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IlluSionS667 said:
I have my own ideology, based on social darwinism and the orriginal national socialism. I am anti-racist, but I do believe that races should be seperated./QUOTE]

Darwin belived the diversity of species is important for the entire process of evolution.

You proclame yourself as no anti-racist, but the 1st link you gave us prove the contrary. And you contradict yourself in the 1st paragraph also !
 

IlluSionS667

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alexa said:
Darwin belived the diversity of species is important for the entire process of evolution.
There is enough diversity amongst the people in one culture. And I clearly say culture, because I believe seperation should be based on culture. Because culture and race are often a unit, I mentioned seperation by race. But I should have said seperation by culture. I was a bit too quick in submitting :p Culture to me is a much more important divider of people than race.

alexa said:
You proclame yourself as no anti-racist, but the 1st link you gave us prove the contrary. And you contradict yourself in the 1st paragraph also !
I did not contradict myself. My ideology are based on social darwinism and the orriginal national socialism, which have nothing do do with racism. The reason why I believe in seperation of race/culture, is because I believe this is the best way for each race/culture to develop. By mixing races and cultures, you're destroying some things you can only find in some races/cultures and the depth of a culture is lost. The American society is a perfect example of the latter. I do not believe one race is superior to others. I actually opose this, which is why I also believe that no race/culture has the right to rule another.
 

alexa

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IlluSionS667 said:
There is enough diversity amongst the people in one culture. And I clearly say culture, because I believe seperation should be based on culture. (...) But I should have said seperation by culture. (...)
By mixing races and cultures, you're destroying some things you can only find in some races/cultures and the depth of a culture is lost. The American society is a perfect example of the latter. I do not believe one race is superior to others. I actually opose this, which is why I also believe that no race/culture has the right to rule another.
I'm a Canadienne and mixing races and cultures is normal for me. I do not belive another culture/race could destroy mine. All we have to do is to learn from each other and evoluate togheter.

What do you understand by culture ? This is a large term. Even the culture evoluate and not always in a better direction. I would like to see nowadays another Michelangelo or Da Vinci, but I have to accept the modern art, as result of evolution.
 

Mus Zibii

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I'm a social Darwinist, but I'm ashamed to admit it because of the implications of racism, etc. Not mixing races, cultures, religions is not necessarily Darwinist. Darwin didn't go to the Galapagos to segregate turtles.

Recently, I've become preoccupied with Batesian and Mullerian mimicry. The same habits of insects and fowl can been seen in practice among humans. Even racism is evident amongst apes.
 

Avinash

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Mus Zibii said:
I'm a social Darwinist, but I'm ashamed to admit it because of the implications of racism, etc. Not mixing races, cultures, religions is not necessarily Darwinist. Darwin didn't go to the Galapagos to segregate turtles.
I would very much like it if a few thousand specimens of every "race" and sub-race would be preserved in special human reservations. The rest should go on mixing as they have been doing for the last ten thousand years or so. The so-called "races" aren't that old anyway, not much older than 50.000 years when the more modern humans left Africa for the first time. Mixed "races" have less genetic defects than genetically isolated "races", so continued mixing is good.
 

Vapour

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Wow, National socialism and Social Darwinism advocating separation of *culture*. :eek: This thread may be pulled and the thread starter banned depending on the admin's tolorence. So let me jump in before that happen.

Where in Darwinism does it state that one *ought to* separate breeding ground to create separate species? The idea that each culture or species ought to be separate is totally irrelevant to darwinims because darwinism basically don't give a **** about what *context* something will survive/adopt.
 

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Vapour said:
Where in Darwinism does it state that one *ought to* separate breeding ground to create separate species? The idea that each culture or species ought to be separate is totally irrelevant to darwinims because darwinism basically don't give a **** about what *context* something will survive/adopt.
A-flippin'-men.
 

IlluSionS667

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alexa said:
I'm a Canadienne and mixing races and cultures is normal for me. I do not belive another culture/race could destroy mine. All we have to do is to learn from each other and evoluate togheter.
You can learn from eachother without mixing. Are you familiar with the folklore of Asia or Europe? These countries have much richer cultures than your country. If you start mixing them too much, the entire world would become a clone of North America. And I do not like the sight of that.

alexa said:
What do you understand by culture ? This is a large term.
Perhaps you should read the first link in the first post.

alexa said:
Even the culture evoluate and not always in a better direction.
True. The strongest and richest cultures will get most influence.

alexa said:
but I have to accept the modern art, as result of evolution.
Some see modern art as degenerate art. And I somewhat agree with that. To me there is more to art than just an idea.

Avinash said:
Mixed "races" have less genetic defects than genetically isolated "races", so continued mixing is good.
What makes you so sure about that?

Vapour said:
This thread may be pulled and the thread starter banned depending on the admin's tolorence.
Yeah, I know my ideology is pretty controversial. However, I'm one of the most tollerant and openminded persons you'll ever meet. I dare you to prove otherwise :D.

So I do not see why I should be banned. As this thread also is not in any way disrespectful to anyone, I do not see why this thread should be pulled.

Vapour said:
Where in Darwinism does it state that one *ought to* separate breeding ground to create separate species? The idea that each culture or species ought to be separate is totally irrelevant to darwinims because darwinism basically don't give a **** about what *context* something will survive/adopt.
I'm talking about social darwinism, not darwinism. Social darwinism is a theory that's just a bit older than the actual darwinism (it should be called social spencerism, however Howard Spencer never got the credit he deserved). It is darwinism applied to our society. It has been an inspiration for both Marx and the early national socialists.

The necessity for the seperation of cultures is an interprettation of social darwinism. We see the seperation of cultures as necessary for every culture to be able to survive next to other cultures. By mixing, you end up destroying the depth of both cultures, of you end up with one culture ruling and opressing the other.
 

Vapour

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ah, firstly, you are talking about Herbert Spencer right?

Secondly, you are not talking about culture, you are talking about *identity* of culture. Culture has been pollinating since the begining of the time. In U.K. curry is the national dish while in India, cricket is the national sport. As far as I can see, culture has been thriving precisely because it is allowed to cross the ethnic devide thanks to the exchange of people and idea.
 

alexa

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IlluSionS667 said:
You can learn from eachother without mixing. Are you familiar with the folklore of Asia or Europe? These countries have much richer cultures than your country. If you start mixing them too much, the entire world would become a clone of North America. And I do not like the sight of that.
Sorry, to disapont you, but I was born in an ex comunist country, in Europe, so I can understand you better than you think.

The culture in Canada has evoluated by accepting different cultures and different races to live togheter. The evoluation is based on mutual respect of each other !

Let's suppose you have each culture separated. If each other is afraid by the influence of the other culture, what do you do about comunication ? Maybe you think once separated, the evoluated one should destroy those less evoluated and in this way the supreme race conqueres all.
icon13.gif
 

IlluSionS667

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Vapour said:
ah, firstly, you are talking about Herbert Spencer right?
Oops. Did I say Howard? :eek: Yes, we're talking about the same person.

Vapour said:
Secondly, you are not talking about culture, you are talking about *identity* of culture. Culture has been pollinating since the begining of the time. In U.K. curry is the national dish while in India, cricket is the national sport. As far as I can see, culture has been thriving precisely because it is allow to cross the ethnic devide thanks to the exchange of people and idea.
It is good for different cultures to influence each other. This is one of the reasons why I love to learn about other cultures. At the same time however, I believe every culture should it's own boundries. The reason is because different cultures have different needs, and those needs can only be fully satisfied for all cultures, if all cultures are politically and economicly independent. There is a reason why the Indians wanted independence from the UK, you know?!
 

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Oh, I also checked your website. Replacing tyranny of capitalism by socialism was a fine idea. Only thing they didn' think was that it merely replaced tyranny capitalists with tyranny of politicians/bureacrats which was worse. Why? Democracy and market economy often goes hand in hand because it is on principle respect choise. Unfortunately, in practice, we only have indirect democracy and market economy where we let politicians and corporations to make decisions for us. This is no excuse to adopt totalitalian system, IMO.
 

IlluSionS667

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alexa said:
The culture in Canada has evoluated by accepting different cultures and different races to live togheter. The evoluation is based on mutual respect of each other !
Life in my country is getting worse and worse, because of accepting different cultures and different races to live together.

alexa said:
Let's suppose you have each culture separated. If each other is afraid by the influence of the other culture, what do you do about comunication ?
There is nothing wrong with influence from other cultures. But there IS something wrong with different cultures in one country. It always creates problems. And there should definitely always be communication between different cultures and countries.

alexa said:
Maybe you think once separated, the evoluated one should destroy those less evoluated and in this way the supreme race conqueres all.
No I don't. As I said, I do not believe that any race is superior to others. There should be a confederal organ (like the UN) to prevent friction between different nations and to ensure the safety of all nations.

Again, if you had read my first link, you would know how I feel about this.
 

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Vapour said:
Oh, I also checked your website. Replacing tyranny of capitalism by socialism was a fine idea. Only thing they didn' think was that it merely replaced tyranny capitalists with tyranny of politicians/bureacrats.
It's way more complicated than that.
 

alexa

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IlluSionS667 said:
Life in my country is getting worse and worse, because of accepting different cultures and different races to live together.
(...) But there IS something wrong with different cultures in one country. It always creates problems.
Again, if you had read my first link, you would know how I feel about this.
I read a SF book, about 20 years ago about a perfect society. Sorry. I forgot the name and the author. I just kept on my mind the main idea. So, there is this society where nobody is in direct contact with nobody. The comunication was made by videocamera. Each member of the society worked at home. :) So, no sex between them. ;) The reproduction was made in vitro and only for those members chosen by the society. No one had the right to have more than one child. And the child grow up as isolated from others as his genetic parents. Get the picture ?

Now, in this perfect society, one of his members got crazy and killed another one. All were afraid, but nobody knew what to do. So, they had to contact the members from another planet (of course, Earth :) ) to find the killer.

What I mean by this is that the problems in your country are most probably economically and not because of the presence of different races/cultures. Yoy have always the possibility to emigrate in another country.

About your 1st link, I got frosen when I saw the symbol of swastica. No offence !
 

Vapour

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For a SF about perfect society, I recommend Culture series by Ian Bank. As of tyranny of politician, if you want more articulated response, book I recommend is "The Road to Serfdom" by Friedrich Hayek.

As of cerebrating IlluSionS667's Germanic heritage, this give a bit of insight about difference between race and culture.

http://www.litespeedcomputers.com/12085.mpg
 

Avinash

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IlluSionS667 said:
You can learn from eachother without mixing. Are you familiar with the folklore of Asia or Europe? These countries have much richer cultures than your country. If you start mixing them too much, the entire world would become a clone of North America. And I do not like the sight of that.

By mixing, you end up destroying the depth of both cultures, of you end up with one culture ruling and opressing the other.
Namaskar,

You only have to look at the rich cultures of India to see what enormous benefits are generated from the mixing of different cultures. In India all "races" are mixed to different extents as can be seen when you go from North to South and from West to East.
 
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