"This place is dangerous for trying to find truth"

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Avi, Nov 6, 2009.

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  1. Saltmeister

    Saltmeister The Dangerous Dinner

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    Actually, Brian I agree with Raksha/Linda's views on the intolerance of the intolerant. The people Linda doesn't like are intolerant of something that is not intolerance. Intolerance of non-intolerance often should not be tolerated.

    Cracking down on crime and criminals doesn't make you a criminal yourself.:) Haven't you also said recently that racism and multiple aliases can't be "tolerated?" So it seems now that you are intolerant towards racism and multiple aliases.

    I am quite satisfied for an "intolerant" person to simply have their intolerant views, opinions and attitudes as long as they don't gain power and influence. But if they start gaining power and influence, that is when I believe that I must oppose them. If they are patronising and condescending, that's when I'm going to turn up the heat. I don't want them to be king of the hill. I want to hold them accountable and keep them humble.

    Fundie Christians promote their ideology of what they consider to be Truth and holiness (often boastfully, "holier than thou"), but sometimes I think they just want to be powerful and influential socially and politically, but neglect the mission and purpose to contribute something positive socially and politically. Anger at homosexuals and killing doctors performing abortions are two examples. "Whoever is first in this world will be last in the kingdom of God." I apply that saying to them. They want to be first, so I make them last. They promoted themselves, so I shall demote them. Tall poppies must be cut short.

    I am not absolutely intolerant towards these people. There are limits. I can be reasonable. I can be merciful. I am not without pity if they show humanity and vulnerability. They are human and I must treat them as human when they actually act human. I do not oppose them to persecute and oppress. I oppose them because they are being oppressive. They are the ones who are persecuting.

    Humanity is the most important thing in any ideological opponent. If I can see the humanity, hear the humanity, smell the humanity, feel the humanity and taste the humanity, then I can be comfortable listening to their views. If I can't see their humanity, if I can't see the person, that's when I start to get angry and fight.

    Humanity is an essential ingredient in any religion, but ideology makes religion impersonal. Ideology turns it into cold logic rather than emotive and sentimental intuition.

    Should the British and French have just stood by and done nothing while Hitler was killing and torturing Jews? Oh yeah, we have to be sympathetic towards Germany and Hitler. Germany and Hitler needed their national pride. That's how we justify domestic abuse. It was none of our business. Nobody had any right to interfere with Germany's internal affairs. They would be violating Germany's right to territorial sovereignty.

    Fair enough. One would have hoped that the German people would rise up against their oppressive government for the sake of their conscience, just like we don't interfere with the internal affairs of Iran, North Korea and China, just like the USA has supported a lot of oppressive regimes. But it was never just about Germany. Germany declared war on anyone opposed to its agenda of world domination.

    It's not my policy to interfere in the internal and domestic affairs of fundamentalists, but when they declare war on the world and seek world domination, I have to say something. Very often, it seems that Fundie Christianity seeks world domination more than the fundamental principles of Christianity. It promotes hollow, impersonal, inhuman and dehumanising ideology but does not seek to help the poor, persecuted and oppressed.

    The more powerful you become, or the more powerful you seek to become, the more people will start scrutinising you.

    I dream of a day when we will beat swords back into plowshares and when all ideological conflicts will cease.
     
  2. Raksha

    Raksha New Member

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    Saltmeister,

    Thanks for an excellent post. You just expressed my position better than I could have done. It isn't that I'm not capable of it, but I tend to get too angry and the anger interferes with my ability to express myself.

    I'll probably have more to say about specific points you raised later on.

    --Linda
     
  3. Avi

    Avi Interfaith Forums

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    Very nice exploration, Salty, I especially like the rebellious nature of demotion of those that promote themselves.

    However, it is sometimes difficult to access this aspect objectively. Sometimes the newly taller poppies have grown quickly and recently because they managed to briefly get out from under the oppression of the more established, older, taller poppies. How does one deal with this complexity ? Will you penalize these newly taller poppies ? :)
     
  4. Saltmeister

    Saltmeister The Dangerous Dinner

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    It's Robin Hood vs. the Sheriff of Nottingham. The Good Thief!:D
     
  5. Raksha

    Raksha New Member

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    Everyone,

    I'm kicking this old thread to make it easier for someone to find the past incarnation notes I posted here back in November. I just sent him the link to the first one, which is on page 12 of this thread.

    I've been thinking about coming back to this forum anyway, so maybe that's just an excuse. BB, Avi, Chris and all my friends here...how are you doing? Just because I haven't been around for months doesn't mean I haven't missed you guys. Again, I have no good reason for being AWOL--I've just been preoccupied with other stuff as usual.

    --Linda
     
  6. Snoopy

    Snoopy Active Member

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    He be banned. :(

    (multiple ID syndrome I think)

    s.
     
  7. Raksha

    Raksha New Member

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    Snoopy,

    Awwwww....that's terrible! I really like Avi and I'll miss him. As I recall, he only did the multiple ID thing as a joke and never intended anything malicious with it. I guess he's just too much of an incurable Trickster type for his own good.

    --Linda
     
  8. earl

    earl ?

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    However, welcome back, Linda. earl
     
  9. Snoopy

    Snoopy Active Member

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    I agree, but there's a zero tolerance to such naughtiness.

    And hello earl. :)

    s.
     
  10. earl

    earl ?

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    Thanks Snoop. Fortunately, my wife has endless tolerance of me.:D earl
     
  11. Saltmeister

    Saltmeister The Dangerous Dinner

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    I think Avi's detention has gone on for long enough.:eek: It's time to let him speak to the other schoolkids again.
     
  12. Bertrand_Russell

    Bertrand_Russell New Member

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    You are a brave poster, Salty, standing up for a poster who has been permanently banned. And especially for the heinous crime of "multiple personalities" :eek:.

    I do not know this poster, Avi, but I have read some of his posts, and he was certainly a believer in freedom. What better day, July 4th, to bring back one of his earlier posts. Perhaps we should acknowledge July 4th, Independence Day, for Avi, where ever he might be fighting the good fight.

    By the way, one of my favorite existentialists was Kierkagaard, whose entire career was built on pseudonym authorship :).

    Happy 4th !!

    -Bert
     
  13. nativeastral

    nativeastral fluffy future

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    hahahah ...yay!
     
  14. Raksha

    Raksha New Member

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    Saltmeister,

    I agree. Does anyone know how to contact Avi to let him know he's being readmitted on probation...or whatever? I don't have his e-mail address. For all I know, he's found another forum to liven up with his multiple personalities and may not even be lurking here. I disappear for months at a time myself. But if anyone knows how to contact Avi and if he's still interested, I'd love to see him back here. He's definitely one of a kind! :D

    --Linda
     
  15. iBrian

    iBrian Peace, Love and Unity Admin

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    Avi is not being readmitted - he repeatedly flouted the rules on the multiple aliases and showed no interest in keeping to them.

    Thread closed and moved to feedback.
     
  16. Saltmeister

    Saltmeister The Dangerous Dinner

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    Ok . . . pardon me for asking . . . but if the thread is closed, did someone forget to lock the door?:) I won't dispute the decision. I know that rules have to be made and order has to be enforced.

    But I was wondering . . . what about multiple publicly declared aliases, multiple aliases that everybody knows about?

    . . . Ok, I get it. Why would you want multiple publicly declared aliases if everybody knows it's You. Ok, so I answered my own question.

    That gets me thinking. There is one account out there that everybody could in theory log into that is an alias for all of us: You. Everyone is in a position to find out the password to that account (unless it has since been changed). It was posted publicly in a thread.

    Ok . . . a bit of history. It all started when the member mee was still around. Because "mee" sounded like "me" I asked what it would be like if someone logged in as "You."

    I didn't create that account, but when someone finally did, about ten to twenty of us had fun "being someone else."

    When Avi got his warning (which he shared with all of us) and was told that aliases wouldn't be tolerated, I stayed well away from it. By then I think that account had already been dormant for some time. I did log in once before Avi got his warning when someone was talking about aliases, just for fun to comment about the idea of an alias. But never again.

    I'm being honest in saying this and I could well spend some time in solitary confinement for it. But it is nowhere near real corporal punishment, so . . . do what you will.
     
  17. iBrian

    iBrian Peace, Love and Unity Admin

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    Whoops - forgot to close the thread. :)
     
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