Mystic teachings of Jesus

A

Avinash

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Namaskar,

The teachings of Jesus as they can be found in Formative-Q are mystic teachings. They have little to do with the concerns of Christians. They are not about waiting for the return of Jesus, they are not about pleading to God to give us anything, they are not about spreading the Christian gospel of Jesus dying for our sins and they don't seem concerned with referring to Old Testament scriptures.

The teachings perhaps started out as notes which a close disciple wrote down from his memory of the words of Jesus. As soon as the followers started to develop their own ideas about the meaning of the teachings and the life and death of Jesus, they started editing Formative-Q.

By the time the authors of Matthew and Luke put together their gospels, Formative-Q had been transformed into 'Q', a gospel of edited (and added) sayings that wasn't preserved in its original form. They both used Mark, Q and some other minor sources as well as their own creative writing to create their gospels.

Here is one of the sayings (Q65) I reconstructed as well as the heavily edited versions as they ended up in Luke and Matthew (Q66 was inspired on it).


Formative-Q65 [Luke 17:20b-21/Matthew24:26]:

You cannot tell by empirical observation where the reign of God can be found. There will be no saying, "Look, He is in the wilderness", or "Look, He is in the inner room"; for in fact the reign of God is within your I.

In the Christian teachings, acquiring the reign of God by emancipating the Self was replaced by the reign of God for the chosen Christians on the return of Jesus. Instead of an individual goal for the spiritual seeker, the christians would all be chosen at once at the return of the Christ. The original 'where?' became less important than the 'when?'. So one was inspired to hurry (by inciting fear) to become a good Christian rather than to actually practice the teachings of Jesus himself.

Luke 17:20-27

Q65:
20 Being asked by the Pharisees when the reign of God was coming, he answered them, "The reign of God does not come by empirical observation; 21 nor can it be said, 'Lo, here it is!' or 'There' for behold, the reign of God is in the midst of you."
Luke:
22 And he said to the disciples, The days are coming when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it.
Q66:
23 And they will say to you, "Lo, there!" or "Lo, here!" Do not go, do not follow them. 24 For as lightning flashes and lights up from the sky from one side to the other, so will the Son of man be in his day.
Luke:
25 But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by his generation.
26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of man. 27 They ate, they drank, they married, they were being married, up to the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.
Luke or Q:
28 Likewise as it was in the days of Lot-they ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built, 29 but on the day when Lot left Sodom fire and sulphur rained from heaven and destroyed them all-
Q66:
30 so will it be on the day when the Son of man is revealed.
Luke:
31 On that day, let whoever is on the housetop, with his goods in the house, not come down to remove them; and whoever is in the field should not go back.
32 Remember Lot's wife.
Q66:
33 Whoever seeks to gain his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life will keep it.
34 I tell you, in that night there will be two in one bed; the one will be taken and the other left. 35 There will be two women grinding together, the one will be taken and the other left."
Luke:
37 And they said to him, "Where Lord?" He said to them,
Q66:
"Where the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together."

Matthew 24:23-28,37-42 :

Matthew:
23 Then if any one says to you, 'Lo, here is the Christ!' or 'There he is!' do not believe it.
24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. 25 Behold, I have told you beforehand.
Q65/Q66:
26 So, if they say to you, 'Behold, he is in the wilderness,' do not go out there; if they say, 'Behold, he is in the secret chambers, do not believe it. 27 For as lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so will be the coming of the Son of man.
Q66:
28 Wherever the corpse is, there the eagles will be gathered.
37 For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of man. 38 For just as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and being married, up to the day when Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not know until the flood came and took them all, so also will be the coming of the Son of man.
40 Then two men will be in the field; one is taken and one is left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one is taken and one is left.
Matthew:
42 Watch therefore, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming.
 
I've always loved the Formative-Q because it provides context, by removing context. That's brilliant.
 
Mus Zibii said:
I've always loved the Formative-Q because it provides context, by removing context. That's brilliant.
Click to expand...
Namaskar,

Tell a similar thing to a Jewish person who has no interest in the context offered by the Christian so-called "New Testament".;)
 
Formative-Q65 [Luke 17:20b-21/Matthew24:26]:

You cannot tell by empirical observation where the reign of God can be found. There will be no saying, "Look, He is in the wilderness", or "Look, He is in the inner room"; for in fact the reign of God is within your I.

So what is the meaning of this saying if you cannot consider the context of later Christian additions and redactions?

I think the saying means that lonely places such as distant caves or forests may (for several reasons) be conducive to spiritual sadhana but the place in itself is not where enlightenment is to be found but rather in our own mind or I-feeling. The same goes for places like temples (inner rooms?).
 
It definitely seems like a refutation of the pious ascetic life. Which is odd in the context of the gospel, just coming away from John the Baptist and going into the wilderness to pray. But I guess maybe that's where that conclusion came from.
 
Yes, the saying doesn't say that it is wrong to go into the wilderness or inner rooms which would be odd with Jesus and his disciples always looking for lonely places in Mark. It just says that one should not make the mistake to think enlightenment is tied to any particular external place as such.
 
Dear Avinash

I totally agree this is also very clear from the Gospel of Thomas as well.

Yes to seeking some time alone for peace and contemplation but it is clear that Jesus was an advocate of 'know thy self and you will know the universe'.
Look within and not outside of yourself there is also a mention in the NT where Jesus tells the priests to clean the inner before they clean the outer of their plate.

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup, so that the outside also may become clean. . . You are like whitewashed tombs, which on the outside look beautiful, but inside they are full of the bones of the dead and of all kinds of filth. So you also on the outside look righteous to others, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness" (Matthew 23:25-28 NRSV).

So sounds like these people needed some serious self healing and self development! Big smiles!

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar
 
To me it says, "Be still, and know that I am your God". Though worded differently, the same thought is expressed in the Bible.


I Kings 19:11-12 "The LORD said, 'Go out and stand on the mountain in the presence of the LORD, for the LORD is about to pass by.' Then a great and powerful wind tore the mountains apart and shattered the rocks before the LORD, but the LORD was not in the wind. After the wind there was an earthquake, but the LORD was not in the earthquake. After the earthquake came a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire. And after the fire came a gentle whisper."


v/r

Q

 
Dear Quahom

Is it not telling them to get their own house in order?

"For you clean the outside of the cup and of the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence."

I am sure that you will agree that greed and self indulgence are traits of selfishness.

In self development we call this the core issues of the root causes, usually created by unmet needs in childhood, resulting in the adult that cannot get enough from the world and this can develop into selfishness. So when Jesus tells them to clean the insides, this tells me he is talking about self mastery and healing the darkness within.

being love

Sacredstar
 
Avinash said:
Namaskar,

Instead of an individual goal for the spiritual seeker, the christians would all be chosen at once at the return of the Christ. The original 'where?' became less important than the 'when?'. So one was inspired to hurry (by inciting fear) to become a good Christian rather than to actually practice the teachings of Jesus himself.

.
Click to expand...
Although I agree with the broad gist of what you are saying, nonetheless it is clear that Jesus expressed the idea of an unexpected return and constatnt vigilance in many parables and sayings. I take this as his way of warning us not to defer following him until later in life as a sort of sanctification process but to integrate his teaching with our life in the present. This thought can be found in other traditions including the popular spirituality of today.
 
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