Heaven without Spouses? Theosophy's view

Namaste Jesus said:
I think if you're with the right person there's no work involved at all. Doing for and respecting the other just comes naturally. You only have to work at it when the two individuals in the relationship are on different pages. When this is the case, as time passes, they grow further and further apart. That's when it takes a considerable amount of work to get back together and if you have to work at it to stay together, sooner or later you're going to resent the other party for having to do so.

Having done a bit of premarital counseling myself, I think the real problem is, people often enter into relationships for the wrong reasons and are just not honest with themselves about it. For example, if your motivation for getting married is purely physical, once that need is satisfied or is no longer possible to fulfill, the relationship crumbles.

Another problem is unrealistic expectations. I've seen people enter into marriage time and time again knowing full well there was something about their partner that they despised. Knowing and excepting this is fine, but all to often they will agree to marry under the assumption the other party will change.

Just my 2 cents.
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There is some truth to that, however, when time is limited when raising kids, evolving personally & climbing the career ladder they pose trials & tribulations we hope our prior efforts have built a strong enough relationship to weather these times ...

At the same time, such a belief lead many to divorce ...
They think that b/c things aren't working out ideally - they're chosen the wrong person to marry and thus ending the marriage seems to be the only solution to the problem ...
Wrong! Not only is it ignorance, it is giving up when it seems hopeless ...
I'm certain all marriage & relationship books have a section solely on improving communication skills - this is also primary in marriage counseling ...
It is vital to understand the differences between each sex &/or the role each plays in the relationship ...
On a daily basis all around the world people talk about their relationship - trying to understand their partner - trying to resolve issues - finding ways to improve upon ...
Some hit a road block most times during a time of growth - as we gain knowledge we are never the same person ...
And rightfully so, it takes time for the partner to be onboard w/new learning - some spouses do not want to grow along side, but do want to learn to live in peace & harmony w/their partner to maintain the marriage - nothing wrong w/that ... :D

As for unrealistic expectations, I agree w/you ...
Unfortunately, it happens ...
Some make it work, many don't ...
I think it depends on what type of coping skills each person has as well as being aware there is always help - I'm thinking along the lines of alcoholism & drug addiction ...
 
Zinga,

I am studying marriage counseling, so I am always fascinated to hear other people's thoughts on the causes of divorce. It's amazing how many different ways people have of looking at the problem. (I once had a lady tell me the number one cause of divorce is that husbands don't help with the housework!)
 
One simple yet profound correlation I have found to be true in making successful relationships is this.

If two people can cope with each other's flaws, the relationship will likely last.

No matter how compatible they might be otherwise, if each other's flaws drive a couple crazy with frustration, the relationship is likely to fail.

What is particularly fascinating about this is that at the beginning of the relationship, it is the flaws in each other people find 'cute' and 'endearing'. Of course at that point, they are thought of as idiosyncrasies instead of flaws.

After living together a couple of years, and putting up with the stresses of life day to day, that is when those cute idiosyncrasies turn into flaws.
 
You may have hit the nail on the head with your last statement GK. I always think it's those stressful situations in life that make a person's true colors stand out.
 
GK,

I take it one step further. I actually have couples sit down, discuss each other's flaws, and find ways to make these flaws less irritating to the other person. (But, as you can imagine, this takes a lot of pre-preparation, which a lot of people are unwilling to do).

Most people are not willing to even sit down and discuss their flaws in an effective and meaningful way. Look at David Sterling, the owner of the Los Angeles Clippers, now in the US news for making racial comments, and digging himself a deeper hole every time he opens his mouth, because he does not know how to discuss his flaws in an effective and meaningful way.

A lot of people think that each person just has to learn to live with and cope with the other person's flaws. I strongly disagree with this idea.
 
Nick the Pilot said:
Zinga,

(I once had a lady tell me the number one cause of divorce is that husbands don't help with the housework!)
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Personally, I think its more about not helping w/the children ...
A mother's day does not end at 5pm, work continues even after the kids go to bed ...
Fortunately, my late husband absolutely wanted to be a father & was hands on w/raising them ...
Its one of the things I miss the most about him ...

People evolve throughout life as well as learn to adjust to situations as a couple ...
Major changes occur w/becoming parents, coping w/a health crisis of a child or spouse, finances can turn into a power struggle for control & individualism ...
And there are times we wake up on the wrong side of the bed for extended periods of time ... ;)
 
Nick the Pilot said:
GK,

I take it one step further. I actually have couples sit down, discuss each other's flaws, and find ways to make these flaws less irritating to the other person. (But, as you can imagine, this takes a lot of pre-preparation, which a lot of people are unwilling to do).

Most people are not willing to even sit down and discuss their flaws in an effective and meaningful way. Look at David Sterling, the owner of the Los Angeles Clippers, now in the US news for making racial comments, and digging himself a deeper hole every time he opens his mouth, because he does not know how to discuss his flaws in an effective and meaningful way.

A lot of people think that each person just has to learn to live with and cope with the other person's flaws. I strongly disagree with this idea.
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My husband and I aren't perfect of course, but are not going to change the people we are. We have learned to live with each other for 45 years, and will carry on doing so until one of us falls off their twig.
 
Nick said "A lot of people think that each person just has to learn to live with and cope with the other person's flaws. I strongly disagree with this idea."

It absolutely depends on the flaws. My comment was aimed at idiosyncrasies that are annoying but not particularly harmful. I wasn't talking about serious issues like not being able to control spending, or alcohol abuse, etc.

Just the everyday stuff that can become annoying. And though I also agree that people don't have to accept the other's flaws, it is also true, as you know, that no one can change anyone else. If the person with the flaw is not willing to work at changing, they are not going to change.

Which brings me around to my original comment. If people can cope with each other's flaws, the relationship is likely to be okay. If they cannot, counseling is a very viable way to try and learn how to handle the situation.

I would probably go as far as to say that just about every couple, at some time in their relationship, could benefit from marriage counseling. I know that a lot of couples never do, and get by anyway; more never do and simply break up. Some sessions with a good counselor can do miracles!
 
Gordian Knot said:
Some sessions with a good counselor can do miracles!
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Good suggestion!
Much better than just learning to live w/one another ... ;)
Marriage classes can spark up an already good relationship ...
Sometimes, we get into the habit of repeating things like going to the same restaurant, giving the same type of gift, spending time together on the same day every week, etc instead of seeing it as an opportunity to try something new ...
Variety is the spice of life! :cool:

BTW, my husband did learn after awhile to put the toilet seat down to prevent me from falling in during the night! :D
 
GK,

I agree with everything you say. But I also find that many people suffer from what I call 'general and vague unhappiness.' I have found that, in such cases, it is absolutely necessary for the two people to sit down and talk about it. For one thing, the person has to find ways to stop this 'general and vague unhappiness' from causing them to act in irritating ways. But another thing is that the partner has to become sensitive to how the partner can give a little bit of comfort when the other person is feeling down, especially when they are feeling down for 'no reason.' I have found this to be one of the best ways to improve relationships.
 
Zinga said:
Good suggestion!
Much better than just learning to live w/one another ... ;)
Marriage classes can spark up an already good relationship ...
Sometimes, we get into the habit of repeating things like going to the same restaurant, giving the same type of gift, spending time together on the same day every week, etc instead of seeing it as an opportunity to try something new ...
Variety is the spice of life! :cool:

BTW, my husband did learn after awhile to put the toilet seat down to prevent me from falling in during the night! :D
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My husband was always good about putting the loo seat down until about a year ago, but now insists on leaving it up much to my annoyance!:confused:
 
Nick the Pilot said:
But I also find that many people suffer from what I call 'general and vague unhappiness.' I have found that, in such cases, it is absolutely necessary for the two people to sit down and talk about it.
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I agree, issues do have to be addressed ...
Sometimes, we caught up in a problem that we are not aware of our own behavior causing annoyance & irritation for our partner ...
Fortunately in heaven we won't have to deal w/these issues ... :D
 
Quirkybird said:
My husband was always good about putting the loo seat down until about a year ago, but now insists on leaving it up much to my annoyance!:confused:
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Okay now we are beyond religion, philosophy or ethics, and into WAR. The Great Toilet Seat Debacle! I have never, ever heard a rational explanation as to why men should always put the seat down, but women have no responsibility to put the seat up!

What is more, so many men have fallen for this brainwashing. Wimps!

And do not even get me started on which way the toilet paper roll should go on the spindle issue.
 
Gordian Knot said:
The Great Toilet Seat Debacle! I have never, ever heard a rational explanation as to why men should always put the seat down, but women have no responsibility to put the seat up!
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Its just considerate & prevents both from falling in the dark of the night ...
Besides, men have 2 choices in how to use the toilet women only have one ... ;)
 
My husband and I each have our own loos, which is fortunate.:D
 
Nick the Pilot said:
Most people are not willing to even sit down and discuss their flaws in an effective and meaningful way.
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My wife is a BACP accredited counsellor and psychotherapist (as am I) as well as a Relate trained couples counsellor (as I am not) so opting out is not really an option -- although we would not have it any other way.

We are senior citizens, and have changed physically as well as every other way over the twenty one years since we met. I prefer the way my wife looks now more than the photos we have of her at that time - the light just shines out of her (or perhaps I am more able to see it now).

I believe that like beautiful plants, love needs to be cultivated. If you want a long and contented relationship it makes sense to me to use the spiritual technology that is available to help bring that about.

My own preference is through a combination of two meditative techniques.
1. the Metta Bhavana, where my wife always figures, and
2. Karezza-like lovemaking where sharing love in making love is much more important than coming (to a conclusion :) ). Good luck with that one -- it did take us many enjoyable years to work the bugs out of that approach.
 
I started reading this thread with a curiosity of meeting up with ex-wives. Little had I realized it would deal with ex-wife issues in a semi-human context. So, here goes...

I resolved the seat up/down issue late one night in a hilarious drunken stupor. I use the tub, run a dash of cold water and on my way. Reminds me of an Eliot Gould movie from the 60's, Move, in which the opening scene is of him relieving himself in the kitchen sink while his wife is locked in the water closet. This was in a New York tenement sort of place.

Wife walks out of bathroom while Gould is... in flow. She exclaims how disgusting the act is, he claims 'It's vindictive'. Don't recall anything else about the show.

As for passing into the next iteration of 'what it is'... I've come to gather that in the spirit essence we will meet up with some of our past experiences for some tea and crumpets and a bit of conversation. Everybody and everything will be in good spirits. At some point your essence/spirit will work with attaining a more enlightened being which might include dealing with some karmatic experiences.

We may meet up with ex/former/late wives but the experience won't be one of that holy matrimony but more a result of 'we are attracted to people we love', which might include more than just one wife. Especially if one comes from a large and close family.

While we may carry a human consciousness into an after life, that after life is not about being human.

Your mileage may vary...
 
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