The Sun, the Moon, and the Stars are 3 forms of government

Discussion in 'Christianity' started by dan b, Jan 7, 2010.

  1. shawn

    shawn New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2007
    Messages:
    2,085
    Likes Received:
    0
    This syndrome is happening all over.
    people are skeptical.
    Like here for instance, over the period of time I have been involved and on related forums I have seen many different "religious" idealist post their ideas, and when they come on with the "let me tell you how it is" attitude, they all get flamed as people are just not buying that kind of salesmanship anymore.

    Too many crackpots with wacky ideas, maybe on weird meds or with mental disorders that get fixated on some idea and want to get everybody onto their boat and convince the world that their path is the only path worth anything and all the rest are just crap, etc, etc.

    To be fair, I am not lumping you into that category, but others may be.(from some responses I see that some are impatient with the kind of interaction, or your style of presentation, so maybe give some thought to that)
    You have to understand that people will discuss ideas, and they expect the person putting them forward to support them with rational evidence, not the "you must believe it because I do" defense.
    And regardless, at the end of the day, some are just incorrigible curmudgeons and they will give you grief and frustrate you no matter what you say or how you say it.
    It just goes with the territory.
    But it will sharpen up your interaction skills as most here are fairly savvy and have highly developed BS detectors.
    As we all know, the religious field is just chalk full of BS ideas and smarmy slimy characters who are selling them, so don't be easily offended, just stand up and tell it like you see it.
    Don't expect people to just pat you on the back with every little presentation, but at the same time, there are those who watch and read and appreciate intelligent presentations, but may never say anything to you to let you know.
    It is just the way it is.
    In any case, don't give up so easily.....show us what you are made of.;)
     
  2. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    21,270
    Likes Received:
    1,689
    Namaste dan b,

    Folks here are interested in discussing the bible and various interpretations. You can read many a thread here doing just that. However those that are here are from various traditions, some liberal, some mystical, some metaphysical, some literal, some fundamental, some this, some that....and they will each discuss your observations and thoughts from their viewpoint.

    How you respond to others posts and how others respond to your posts are bound to differ as we are differentt people.

    You also must realize none are here to live upto your expectations.

    You give me greif for following you around the net, yet I don't know you from adam. Shawn asks a question regarding a contemplation and you ask him to provide his interpretation prior to your providing yours. Shawn will respond as he does...just so you know that did and does turn me off. Of course I don't like "Cold front coming...how cold will it get, news at 11" You could tell me 28 degrees and a chance of snow, more details at 11 and I may stick around and check it out....but tease me and I change the channel.
     
  3. Marsh

    Marsh Disagreeable By Nature

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2004
    Messages:
    577
    Likes Received:
    0
    Or perhaps you don't like having your ideas put to the test?

    If your interpretation is true, it will hold up under fire. But expecting people to accept what you say simply because you are saying it as a Christian goes against the fundamental wisdom of Christian beliefs, doesn't it? Are we not told to question all spirits? If the blind leads the blind, don't they both fall into a pit?
     
  4. soleil10

    soleil10 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2008
    Messages:
    763
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dan b, I do have a different understanding of the meaning of the sun, the moon and the stars.

    Matthew 24:29 says, "'Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven ... .'"

    Genesis 37:9,10 gives us an insight on the meaning of these predictions. There we find the interpretation of one of Joseph's dreams, in which the sun symbolizes the father, the moon symbolizes the mother, and the stars, their children.

    Jesus and the Holy Spirit give rebirth to fallen man and thus stand in the position of father and mother. Therefore, in the New Testament (Mt 24:29), the sun and the moon represent Jesus and the Holy Spirit, who are the source of the light of truth which illuminates the spirit and heart of mankind, and the stars represent in my opinion the believers (Christians), who are the "children" of Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

    From this perspective, the sunlight symbolizes the light of truth of Jesus' words, and the moonlight symbolizes the light of the Holy Spirit.

    To say that the sun and the moon will be darkened in the last days is to say that the light of a new expression of the truth as Jesus told us ("I have more to tell you") will outshine what he has revealed in the Gospel

    How is this possible? Just as the Old Testament was outshone when Jesus and the Holy Spirit came with new words that were to fulfill the Old Testament, when Christ comes again with a new expression of the truth, the words of Jesus and the Holy Spirit will be outshone.

    For truth to lose its light means that the period of the new testament has ended with the coming of an age for a new expression of the truth.

    The "stars" falling from heaven represent those Christians in the Last Days who do not accept the truth from the lord and thus lose their position as the children of God.

    In Luke 18:8 Jesus asked, "'... when the Son of man comes, will he find faith on earth?'" On another occasion he said that at the Second Coming he would declare to many believers, "'"... I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers"'" (Mt 7:23).

    Though the leaders of Israel had been eagerly waiting for the Messiah, all "fell" by rejecting the new teachings which Jesus brought.

    Jesus foresaw the possibility that the religious leaders at the time of the Last Days would do the same thing, and so he said these things as a warning.
     
  5. dan b

    dan b Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2009
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hello Soleil10, I agree with a lot of what you say. It's quite evident to me also. Jesus is the light represented allegorically as the Sun. Woman is also often symbolized as the moon, relflecting all the light and idealism of her husband. She follows the moon's cycles. The Stars are twinklings of understanding people, who yes, during these turbulent times predicted in Dan.12;1 have fallen. Israel"s sons, who were men(suns) but not yet grown up were indeed as stars. Joseph had this vision back during the second millennium, before the 4th day and the arrival of the true sun.(Jesus Christ) The falling stars of today, as mentioned in Rev.12;4 are probably the many intelligent people who would shine light, but are darkened by the clouds of the anitchrist. I see the Holy Bible as a many sided diamond shining from every side. In this same way the Bible is true in every way, every way that you turn it I mean. Not every way that one interprets it. So in my view there is no conflict between Gen.37;9,10 and the fact that the Sun represents Christianity, the moon is the Law of justice and the stars are Prophets or shining people.
    But I am also a realist. I don't particularily believe that a giant monster beast will assail us or that a giant man will come floating upon the clouds.Rev.14;14 I see already these things happening and having been materialized today, after the year 2000AD. And this is just as 2 Pet.3;8 predicted it. I'm not going to be ignorant.
    The re-generation of the 12 Tribes of Israel was forcast by Jesus Christ himself in Matt.19;28 when he said " ...ye that have followed me will sit upon 12 thrones in the re-generation." Jesus was sent by his father to gather the sheep his father had given him. " I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Matt.15;24 And I don't believe that all this was spoken in vaine.
    Who were the sheep that he was given? Of course they are all of the people of the world who would take his teachings to heart and follow them. But politically, on this earth as his apostles had asked him, it would be manifest also.Acts.1;6 Politically, the lost sheep of the Tribes of Israel were the ones who had lost the Law, rituals and the Jerusalem temple in which to pray with the division of Israel about the year 921BC or so. Only the House of Judah in whose territory Jerusalem was, retained this original covenant of the Law. But the ones to whom Jesus's deciples took the Christian message became the European Christian Countries. This is obvious because they are the only ones who accepted Christianity. And I believe that Jesus's plans did work out. So today the kingdom, as the apostles had asked for is here!
    This does by no means nulify the faith and salvation of all believing Christians the world over. And in fact it is a great blessing to those who have managed to get in. But the restored kingdom, the promiced land and millennium for the Christians is here today, as of the year 2000AD under the flag of the 12 stars of the E.U. I know that it's still not at all perfect. It is building and cleansing even today. Only in the E. U. countries have we abolished capital punishment. This is in line with the kindness that Jesus Christ showed to the adultrerous woman who he freed. We in the Christian countries, including Russia lock up dangerous criminals but spare their lives. This is Christianity. They still are our brothers.
    About the giant beast who is forcast to appear, it has geographically. It is now there for all to see who have a map of Eurasia. Only since the year 2000AD is this beast visable because when the U.S.S.R. broke off retaining only it's Christian parts the Lion with an eagle for it's head was manifest. So the Bible didn't lie. But it also dosn't play in monsters and magic as so many nowadays have been led astray to believe. To see more of these ideas and also pictures of the monsters you can look in chapter 19, on page 297 of www.secondbookofdaniel.com The ideas about the Sun, moon and stars and how they are even on the flags of countries today can be seen in chapter 21 on page 318 onward. So peace and understanding Soleil10. dan b
     
  6. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    21,270
    Likes Received:
    1,689
    ah....finally we've got it.... you are hawking your book.

    luv the cover art...
     
  7. iBrian

    iBrian Peace, Love and Unity Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2003
    Messages:
    6,532
    Likes Received:
    8
    dan b, I think the problem here is that so far you have started thread after thread telling us your ideas in such a way as to read as a monologue.

    I mean, seriously, how often have you posted on other threads, except to promote the same ideas?

    No one here expects to agree with everyone else on every detail - but neither do people here appreciate feeling like they are being preached to.
     
  8. Marsh

    Marsh Disagreeable By Nature

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2004
    Messages:
    577
    Likes Received:
    0
    Get your facts straight, eh.
     

Share This Page